Chess - Game Thread [Concluded]

[Slaan]

"Work" is funny word. I guess it's only work if you announce it to the thread that you're working. There hasn't been much heavy lifting by anyone since Night 1. Once GH flipped scum it was only a matter of time before Zack got dealt with. Most of the activity since then has been reinforcing people's preexisting reads, until now that is.

I did announce that I was rereading the thread at like 20:30 or smth iirc and started to spampost a bit every time I saw a small spew (which stopped as I didnt want to overspam the thread as stated earlier)

The second part, i don't even get it. So you're saying Monty is a top 5 town read but you'd lynch him before then?

I wanted to express that Monty wasnt in my lock town categorie and I could see him being scum. But he has some solid points going for him imo so he is not in the immediate PoE but also not secure enought hat I would like to F3 with him... It's like I don't know where to put him exactly so I came up with the F5 thingy. Didnt even consider how many lynches we had left at that point so it made sense to me then.. now knowing we have 4 lynches most likely it doesnt anymore, sure, considering the rest of my PoE is scummier in my eyes.

[Fredwood]

I did announce that I was rereading the thread at like 20:30 or smth iirc and started to spampost a bit every time I saw a small spew (which stopped as I didnt want to overspam the thread as stated earlier)

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.

I wanted to express that Monty wasnt in my lock town categorie and I could see him being scum. But he has some solid points going for him imo so he is not in the immediate PoE but also not secure enought hat I would like to F3 with him... It's like I don't know where to put him exactly so I came up with the F5 thingy. Didnt even consider how many lynches we had left at that point so it made sense to me then.. now knowing we have 4 lynches most likely it doesnt anymore, sure, considering the rest of my PoE is scummier in my eyes.

I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

[Slaan]

Nah I'm not talking about that, It's a bit sassy, the general point being that most everything since N1 has been a lot of everyone repeating themselves, so the impression that you're the only one working outside of Pizza is kind of funny to me.

Maybe that was just my own impression... considering I did as you've said since N1 basically... just went down the PoE and didnt care much outside that ^^. Well I didnt even vote on D2 iirc, I wanted GH to post something before he is hammered but that never happened...

I guess? So you're saying you'd lynch Barto after him? Because it looks like as if you're saying your final 5 is Pizza, Bart, DP101, You and Monty. No offense to Monty, he's not spewed or anything when half the thread is spewed. It almost feels like appeasement because Monty could break the game because of WIM and he's in a similar position to you so would have a greater drive to do so then anyone else.

Still don't get why you'd be fine with Bart getting to Final 3.

I didnt do the math when I made my post so chances are this doesnt work out as I've written down. Then again I probably wouldnt mind Bart in F3? It's a tough one between Monty and Bart tbh, Monty is more towny from WIM/solving and his going hard after Zack D1 and not minding the Logic wagon. Bart on the other hand I think is spewed town from the way Zack/GH acted...

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

[Fredwood]

I just think it so unlikely that Zack and GH are defending scum!Logic as strong as they were and proposing scum!Bart as an alternative wagon. I mean it's not impossible, nothing is yada yada... but I don't see it happening. If they wanted to bus a partner they couldve just jumped on the Logic wagon early... At some point the Logic issue did become a Point of no return for them imo (couldnt have made a 180° ) but I think it was still very much possible when they went after Barto? At least that's the impression I got, at the time there was 'only' pizza that pushed him hard, dp+ (someone, don't remember.. kage prolly) that sheeped pizza and me on the wagon... which is why GH and Zack tried so hard to save Logic int he first place - it was still very much possible. But then whyyy go after their last scumbuddy? Just seems so unlikely in my book

So why is Chox in your POE? His spew case is just as valid as Barts, in my mind it's better then Bart's. It isn't because he's acting scummier, the entirety of peoples read on Chox is because of what people have said or done to him this game.

[Fredwood]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

[Montmorency]

Why would choxorn be protected on night one though. That doesn't make any sense.

Chox shouldn't be the n1 doc target. And the first inventor gift would have been the gun, delivered too late to affect N1.

Unless choxorn is a bulletproof, the only thing that makes sense is that Slaan is hinting that he shot choxorn, when he wasn't protected, and was actually shooting elsewhere.

Which you don't lie about if you're town.

OK, a little hard to follow the logic for Slaan being scum behind these soft-claims, but it sounds like you're drawing on your experience claiming a mafia vig as a town vig, or using it as a way to tease claims from another townie (both?). If so, maybe we should be reading Slaan independently of these considerations because at some point they probably feed more into confirmation bias than offer new information.

So I was like, he can possibly be scum still somehow, therefore he is scum.

Confirmation Bias.

We can nitpick the early game, but I think most people liked his later D1, so if Slaan is scum then all that substance ought to fall apart on closer examination.


Also, how Slaan is representing the wagonomics before EOD, and how distancing vs. bussing applies, and if it reflects on Slaan's analyses at the time.

Much later tonight.

[Slaan]

I got ninja'd while watching the baseball game...which comes down to the crux of the issue with Bart being final 3

If Bart is Town and makes it to final 3, town doesn't win. The thing that keeps making me go back and forth is that putting Bart that high makes no sense as either alignment, It's just an odd stance to take on him. Discounting half the spew and holding up the other spew as relevant....all I ask is for consistency in the spew, maybe it all boils down to only being half through your re-read, but still even when re-checking things I remember the context of the thread at the time. Especially if Zack is playing for a Bart before Zack flip.

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

[Fredwood]

Idk what else to tell you, that's where I arrived after my first 30 pages.

I'm just sort of talking out loud to myself hoping someone smarter tells me I'm dumb one way or the other. I read EOD1 at least twice but I probably have a harder time divorcing my memory of the context of the thread because I was observing it all passively but was actively there for the actual "bart" push....I need to stop self-arguing points for your defense damnit.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I got it.

He does have a vig power and the doc has been successful.

There's no way he as vanilla townie claims that:

I'm also really wondering which roles there will be in this game in the end. Doc is clear on our side... but I imagine a vig would've vigged Chox or someone last night. Maybe Winston was vigged from mafia and their NK on pizza failed? What other roles could there be in a game such as this? (my homeboard only uses the same boring roles over and over and they don't seem likely)... don't speculate on this, don't think it helps town... just things I wonder.

This is it, this is the damning evidence.

Nooooooo way in hell does he suggest this many kills are in play unless he's eventually going to claim town vigilante.

But EVEN if he was going to claim town vigilante, he's got to explain eventual scummy kills. So in lie-world, there's also a scum vig.

There's no way to account for all the missing kills at this point, so that plan has to be abandoned.

But he's claiming in this post there are 3 kills in play, two more than the known mafia nightkill, and he never had the joat's vig shot, because I did.

There wouldn't be a town vigilante in this game unless the mafia had one. And he could always claim to be a limited vig.

Since he knew that the town had a doctor, he could easily account for missing kills.

But from a vanilla townie standpoint, he should never be claiming a Third Kill.

That's it. That's the proof in your own words, Slaan.

You were gonna claim a limited vig and frame choxorn with it. But you had to back off because that's too many kills in play that we haven't seen yet.