Trump Thread

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The fear is that evidence is irrelevant.

I think Nixon demonstrates that clear evidence of first person involvement in a cover-up or the like, however difficult to get, would get the job done.

[Montmorency]

I think Nixon demonstrates that clear evidence of first person involvement in a cover-up or the like, however difficult to get, would get the job done.

Does it though?

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...t-record-high/

Attempts by Trump world, Fox News, and other affiliated interests to try to turn the Russia news back onto Hillary Clinton have had some effect. A month ago we found that among Trump voters 41% thought Russia wanted Clinton to win the election last year, to 29% who thought it wanted Trump to win. Now that’s up to 56% who think Russia wanted Clinton to win and just 18% who grant that it wanted Trump to win.

That’s part of a general pattern when it comes to Trump voters and the Russia story. Only 7% believe that members of Trump’s campaign team worked in association with Russia to help him win the election, to 83% who don’t think that happened. And even if collusion is proven they don’t care- just 11% think Trump should resign if that’s the case to 79% who believe he should remain in office. 75% dismiss the entire Russia story as ‘fake news,’ to 13% who disagree with that assessment. This poll was conducted mostly after the news that indictments were coming was out, but before the actual indictments were released.

Even if Republican Congress-people went along with impeachment, the Republican base would reject it.

Now - and there are just so many differences between the Trump case and the Nixon case, between Trump's America and Nixon's America - I'll just mention that Nixon by the end had the approval of only about ~50% of Republicans. Trump has held strong in the 80s since inauguration.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Does it though?

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...t-record-high/



Even if Republican Congress-people went along with impeachment, the Republican base would reject it.

Now - and there are just so many differences between the Trump case and the Nixon case, between Trump's America and Nixon's America - I'll just mention that Nixon by the end had the approval of only about ~50% of Republicans. Trump has held strong in the 80s since inauguration.

That is because the Trump base is not gonna buy into pretty much any of the media coverage about Trump being worthy of impeachment. We have no Butterfield revealing that it was all taped...and it takes that level of hard evidence to successfully remove a President.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I think Nixon demonstrates that clear evidence of first person involvement in a cover-up or the like, however difficult to get, would get the job done.

Even with the evidence, Nixon's party was absurdly loyal to him.
The Republican committee votes on articles of impeachment were as follows:

64% (11/17) voted he did not obstruct justice.
59% (10/17) voted he did not abuse his power.
88% (15/17) voted he did not hold Congress in contempt.
100% (17/17) voted he did not falsify records regarding bombing of Cambodia. (Didn't the Pentagon Papers show this???)
100% (17/17) voted he did not fail to pay taxes.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Even with the evidence, Nixon's party was absurdly loyal to him.
The Republican committee votes on articles of impeachment were as follows:

64% (11/17) voted he did not obstruct justice.
59% (10/17) voted he did not abuse his power.
88% (15/17) voted he did not hold Congress in contempt.
100% (17/17) voted he did not falsify records regarding bombing of Cambodia. (Didn't the Pentagon Papers show this???)
100% (17/17) voted he did not fail to pay taxes.

Certainly he had his supporters right up to the end, and political parties always engender/reward loyalty to party, sometimes even when unwarranted (one of the reasons GW loathed them). There were even people genuinely sobbing during his "farewell" speech. But your numbers also indicate that, where evidence was clear, even a third of his own party would not vote in his favor in the committee, knowing full well that their vote would make it a bipartisan vote for impeachment.

The Pentagon Papers were all material Ellsberg had access to prior to 1968 prior to the Nixon administration entirely. There was no indication that Nixon's folks falsified anything about bombings outside of Vietnam. In fact, Nixon had made public declarations that such would occur. On Kissinger's advice, Nixon DID seek to discredit Ellsberg so as to preserve the "secrecy" tools of the Presidency as a whole. Nixon's tactics in this, however, were covered under obstruction of justice and abuse of power (which they were).

Nixon's resignation was the only valid choice for him. The full HoR would have voted to impeach on the first three articles had it gone to a vote and it was already clear that the Senate would've convicted on at least the first two.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Fun side note. Having more-or-less endorsed Roy Moore despite the allegations from Moore's past, Trump can now revel in the fact that he isn't the only one supporting Moore.

Link We now have Steve Bannon appearing with Judge Moore in his Alabama campaign.

I swear, if I submitted the last two years of Trump's life and the people and events swirling around him as a plot for a novel it would have been rejected as too implausible to be sold to anyone not already wearing tinfoil hats and stocking unhybridized seeds.

[Montmorency]

I'm tempted to say something, but instead let's have a humor-break:

An unnamed Indian diplomat told Bobby Ghosh, the editor-in-chief of the Hindustan Times: "We regard Ivanka Trump the way we do half-wit Saudi princes. It's in our national interest to flatter them.”

He later added: “Yes, it is a shame that the US should be compared to a kingdom. But that is America's shame, not Modi's, or India's.”

Good enough for an Indian reboot of Yes, Minister.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Certainly he had his supporters right up to the end, and political parties always engender/reward loyalty to party, sometimes even when unwarranted (one of the reasons GW loathed them). There were even people genuinely sobbing during his "farewell" speech. But your numbers also indicate that, where evidence was clear, even a third of his own party would not vote in his favor in the committee, knowing full well that their vote would make it a bipartisan vote for impeachment.

The Pentagon Papers were all material Ellsberg had access to prior to 1968 prior to the Nixon administration entirely. There was no indication that Nixon's folks falsified anything about bombings outside of Vietnam. In fact, Nixon had made public declarations that such would occur. On Kissinger's advice, Nixon DID seek to discredit Ellsberg so as to preserve the "secrecy" tools of the Presidency as a whole. Nixon's tactics in this, however, were covered under obstruction of justice and abuse of power (which they were).

Nixon's resignation was the only valid choice for him. The full HoR would have voted to impeach on the first three articles had it gone to a vote and it was already clear that the Senate would've convicted on at least the first two.

My concern is that the Republican Party of today is more entrenched in party loyalty than those of Nixon's era. Today we can only rely on a handful of Senators being at best 'maybe no' for these rushed, pork laden bills that are being pushed through.

I must have been mixing up my dates for the Pentagon Papers, that's my mistake.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

My concern is that the Republican Party of today is more entrenched in party loyalty than those of Nixon's era. Today we can only rely on a handful of Senators being at best 'maybe no' for these rushed, pork laden bills that are being pushed through.

I must have been mixing up my dates for the Pentagon Papers, that's my mistake.

It is easily done. The Pentagon papers DID come to light during Nixon's first term and he did authorize/encourage illegal activities to discredit Ellsberg. For all his many faults though, it was not Nixon who distorted evidence to encourage our huge ramp up of effort in Vietnam or lie about most of the cross border activities.

[HopAlongBunny]

Flynn flipped? NVM, that just proves the FBI is not only corrupt but just like the KGB.
Fox is going full bat-poop on this:

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...Mueller/218781

Mueller shouldn't be fired, he should be locked up!
Because that just makes sense

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Flynn flipped? NVM, that just proves the FBI is not only corrupt but just like the KGB.
Fox is going full bat-poop on this:

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/20...Mueller/218781

Mueller shouldn't be fired, he should be locked up!
Because that just makes sense

Just remember that mediamatters has their own axes to grind.