CANZUK

**Pannonian** · 01-23-2018, 16:05

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Are you sure that these preferences on the part of the far rights and lefts are genuine and not paid for?

I don't think they can tell the difference. See the far right and far left combining to take the UK out of the EU despite obviously weakening the UK and despite Russian agents being shown to have had a hand in it, whilst parading the Great British Patriotic Future. Even if Farage and co are shown to be directed by Russia, they will still rationalise it as the way to ensure Britain's future.

**rory_20_uk** · 01-23-2018, 16:18

Originally Posted by Pannonian

I don't think they can tell the difference. See the far right and far left combining to take the UK out of the EU despite obviously weakening the UK and despite Russian agents being shown to have had a hand in it, whilst parading the Great British Patriotic Future. Even if Farage and co are shown to be directed by Russia, they will still rationalise it as the way to ensure Britain's future.

"Obviously" weakening the UK? In that the EU is making punitive demands, then yes, the UK will be weaker at the very least for a time. But then I never realised that the EU is a buttress against Russia. If so it is doing a pretty crap job - NATO on the other hand (thanks 80% to the USA) is providing more of a deterrent.

The EU is so amazingly weak that there is not a single conflict anywhere on the periphery of the EU that the EU has managed to do anything about. Oh, aside from hand-wringing.

Britain and France are managing to cooperate in Africa with... the two countries talking without any part of the EU apparatus involved. Is that sort of thing even legal any more? Should't we go to the MEPs to debate, to hold some meetings and get EUCOM started? Add a few layers of oversight, months/years delay and with any luck the problem will have ended before we even get started.

**Greyblades** · 01-24-2018, 17:40

I have learned to never underestimate the modern briton's eagerness to sell his nation short.

**HopAlongBunny** · 01-30-2018, 01:20

CANZUK highlights some of the discussions involving NAFTA.
It's not that Canada and Mexico don't want a deal with the U.S., its just that they have options.
While a renewed NAFTA would be ideal, there is no reason to accept a bad deal. The "burden of adjustment" would be felt by all, but nobody views it as fatal.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/29/...izer-freeland/

Trump would like a "win". It's questionable he has the deal making chops to get it on his terms.

**rory_20_uk** · 01-30-2018, 10:17

Whatever the deal, he'll call it a "win". Few are qualified to unpick what the deal is and between lies and cries of "Fake News!!!" his base will believe it is a win.

He also now says he'd join the Paris agreement and TPP both if they are "fair" to the USA. Again, he could just say that some minor / non existent changes made it "fair" and it was all down to his negotiating skills.

**Strike For The South** · 01-30-2018, 19:12

NAFTA is going no where. Too much money in it for the big North American corps.

**HopAlongBunny** · 03-01-2018, 10:47

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

NAFTA is going no where. Too much money in it for the big North American corps.

A view borne out by the data.
Trade surplus/deficit? Depends what you count:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...-canada-trade/

It's so much political popcorn to feed his base