Trump Thread

[Fisherking]

Less than dozen members of Congress voted against Russia sanctions.

Trump signed it into law.

Trump refuses to enforce the sanctions.

Where is Greyblades to perform the mental gymnastics to conclude that this isn't dereliction of duty or that *gasp* WHAT ABOUT OBAMA/HILLARY.

With regard to enforcing sanctions, the last eight years, if not previous president, have opened the door to selective enforcement. Congress did practically nothing over it then when it clearly violated their intent and have not made a real peep this time. Under the previous administration congress blamed the lack of enforcement on the executive agencies involved. International sanctions would involve any number of them so perhaps it is too much trouble and the players are too Establishment to risk blaming in order to get to Trump.

A president in the US can overule the congres, that's in your constitution I believe. It's probably smart to not make these sanctions, it's better to have Russia as a poor friend, Russia isn't hostile to the west.

The president can not over rule congress without constitutional grounds. Under the question of sanctions, that would be difficult. Congress’s actual constitutional powers are primarily external. International trade, commerce, and relations are clearly theirs, so there is no actual constitutional ground not to enforce their will. It can only be called a policy dispute.

[Fragony]

Why hurt something that isn't interested in hurting you. Solid question I think. Trump might be remembered better later

[Gilrandir]

Russia isn't hostile to the west.

This statement can be thought accurate only by those who aren't exposed to Russian media.

[Fragony]

This statement can be thought accurate only by those who aren't exposed to Russian media.

lol it doesn't work like that, they aren't our friends. They must be laughing their asses of how we destroy ourself with just a little nudge.

[Gilrandir]

lol it doesn't work like that, they aren't our friends. They must be laughing their asses of how we destroy ourself with just a little nudge.

Laughing is one thing and expressing profound contempt and enmity is quite another.

[Fragony]

Laughing is one thing and expressing profound contempt and enmity is quite another.

Well they are clever. The west is the dealbreaker here the west shouldn't creep up on their borders and that's exactly what is being done anyway. I wonder how long it takes before the Russians feel too cornered by the Nato, at some point they will and they would be right

[rory_20_uk]

Well they are clever. The west is the dealbreaker here the west shouldn't creep up on their borders and that's exactly what is being done anyway. I wonder how long it takes before the Russians feel too cornered by the Nato, at some point they will and they would be right

Russia has been trying to increase its sphere of influence since at least the 1800s. Western Europe has been trying to contain them; in the Far East they have been jostling with China and Japan - both who would be keen to have territories returned that Russia annexed. They take what they can when they can. As do we.

Russia is as always picking for weaknesses from the Arctic circle to the Med. And in Syria they're having quite a lot of success as well as Ukraine. They're really doing well at getting the maximum results for the minimum effort.

[Montmorency]

With regard to enforcing sanctions, the last eight years, if not previous president, have opened the door to selective enforcement. Congress did practically nothing over it then when it clearly violated their intent and have not made a real peep this time. Under the previous administration congress blamed the lack of enforcement on the executive agencies involved. International sanctions would involve any number of them so perhaps it is too much trouble and the players are too Establishment to risk blaming in order to get to Trump.

What did Obama (not) do?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I assume you have Iran or Cuba in mind, but I don't recall the government declining to enforce existing sanctions.

Rejecting sanctions on the basis that their Congressional approval is itself a sufficient deterrent to the target of the sanctions is likely a novel argument.

[Fragony]

pluning americans into debts, more than all his precedetors combined? That?

[Pannonian]

pluning americans into debts, more than all his precedetors combined? That?

Hang on, weren't we talking about enforcing sanctions and ignoring Congress thereof? Constitutionality and all that? How does the above relate to the constitutional relationship between President and Congress?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

pluning americans into debts, more than all his precedetors combined? That?

Every President since 1835 has presided over an increase in the absolute total of the national debt. While the debt has gone up and down as a percentage relative to the entirety of our GDP. the raw total increases every year.

Each and every year, CONGRESS votes to increase the debt and the President then signs it into law.

That blame is as broadly spread as anything in government.

[Montmorency]

Every President since 1835 has presided over an increase in the absolute total of the national debt. While the debt has gone up and down as a percentage relative to the entirety of our GDP. the raw total increases every year.

Each and every year, CONGRESS votes to increase the debt and the President then signs it into law.

That blame is as broadly spread as anything in government.

Correct.*

IIRC one of the larger drivers of debt during the Obama admin was borrowing above what was strictly needed to pay overall dues as they came up. I can't find the broken-down figures, and I don't know how this borrowing is described in public finance practice.

Debt growth decelerated in Obama's second term excepting FY 2016, and at a glance it doesn't look like FY2017 was anything exceptional in that regard.

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/spen...s2li111mcn_H0f
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Long-term damage of political and diplomatic damage to the standing of the US government and its currency is unfortunately more worrying, and intangible.


*We could have retired the national debt in the 1860s, if it weren't for war-monger Lincoln and the tax money-mooching failed Southern states. Sad!

[Montmorency]

I actually watched a SotU for once, since 2009 (the 2009 inauguration anyway, but give me the mulligan).

Thousands of flags placed on veterans' graves is a wasteful exercise, and a lop-sided symbolism that perpetuates the valorization of soldiers' corpses.

One thing to do it as a publicity stunt or even unexamined institutional practice - but propagandizing the Jugendliche for doing it?

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

And yes, the man just had to give the longest address in post-war American history. .

[CrossLOPER]

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

This has been around since the late 80's. Republicans have been feeding their base these ideas and they have become the only truths in their eyes. Linking it with religion or some misguided modern idea of nationalism has made it exceptionally difficult to dislodge.

pluning americans into debts, more than all his precedetors combined? That?

Let's spend 5 seconds researching this statement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:5...figure1(1).png

Oh look, it didn't hold up at all. What a surprise.

[Strike For The South]

Thousands of flags placed on veterans' graves is a wasteful exercise, and a lop-sided symbolism that perpetuates the valorization of soldiers' corpses. One thing to do it as a publicity stunt or even unexamined institutional practice - but propagandizing the Jugendliche for doing it?

He has to rally the base somehow, the military is an easy dunk for him. Military veneration runs deep and it something Trump can hide behind.

That's what bothered me most. Never mind the sinister swipes at the 'impure' federal bureaucracy and request for authority to cleanse it, "beautiful clean coal", $1.5 trillion for infrastructure a step after funneling at least that much into their own and donors' pockets, the immigrant/gang violence mastication, the implication that Israel is the only friend America has in the world, and the standard Republican and bipartisan platitudes - this one callout just reflects so poorly on our government and society.

Anybody who has been paying attention understands how grating it was. However, it is eminently frustrating he stayed on message. Any supporter who watched him last night was probably buoyed by the speech. The bar is so low for him that simply sounding reasonable (to say nothing of the haphazard policies themselves) illicits a "see the left is going crazy".

[a completely inoffensive name]

Correct.*

IIRC one of the larger drivers of debt during the Obama admin was borrowing above what was strictly needed to pay overall dues as they came up. I can't find the broken-down figures, and I don't know how this borrowing is described in public finance practice.

Debt growth decelerated in Obama's second term excepting FY 2016, and at a glance it doesn't look like FY2017 was anything exceptional in that regard.

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/spen...s2li111mcn_H0f
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Long-term damage of political and diplomatic damage to the standing of the US government and its currency is unfortunately more worrying, and intangible.


*We could have retired the national debt in the 1860s, if it weren't for war-monger Lincoln and the tax money-mooching failed Southern states. Sad!

It's becoming increasingly clear that the turning point from zenith to decline and fall of the American experiment was September 11th, 2001.
It's all downhill from here.

[CrossLOPER]

It's becoming increasingly clear that the turning point from zenith to decline and fall of the American experiment was September 11th, 2001.
It's all downhill from here.

I have found that people have a weird disrespect for history. It's as if it's a joke to them. They look at events going on around them and ask "how could this have happened?" They point to major events and conspiracy theories, but they ignore the fact that certain things come about as a result of trends. You don't get fat from eating a single piece of cake. You don't get outcast by your friends because you ordered a small salad when going out. You don't fail out of Uni because of a couple of bad quiz grades.

It's trends. The US has been having a lot of bad ones for some time, and they all culminated in what is happening today. The good news is that trends work the other way, too.