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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post

    The God of the bible loves all and loves unconditional. “But god demonstrated his love for us that while we were sinners Christ died for us” Romans 5.8. Allah said god will love you, if you love him first 3.30-35 and believers need to help god, for him to help them 47.5-11. Jesus said of those who love only those who love them “if you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?” Matt 5.46. When being nailed to the cross after being beaten, scourged, spat at etc he prayed to god for those nailing him to the cross "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." Luke 23.34.

    The God of the bible is very different. "The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance" 2Pet. 3.9. "He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" 1Tim. 2.4.


    Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

    Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
    "I will destroy ... both man and beast."
    God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17
    "Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
    God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
    "All flesh died that moved upon the earth."
    God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
    God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17
    God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
    Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6
    "I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
    I guess God couldn't find even ten good Sodomites because he decides to kill them all in Genesis 19. Too bad Abraham didn't ask God about the children. Why not save them? If Abraham could find 10 good children, toddlers, infants, or babies, would God spare the city? Apparently not. God doesn't give a damn about children. 18:32
    Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8
    God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24
    Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26
    God gets angry with king Abimelech, though the king hasn't even touched Sarah. He says to the king, "Behold, thou art but a dead man," and threatens to kill him and all of his people. To compensate for the crime he never committed, Abimelech gives Abraham sheep, oxen, slaves, silver, and land. Finally, after Abraham "prayed unto God," God lifts his punishment to Abimelech, "for the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah." 20:3-18
    Sarah, after giving birth to Isaac, gets angry again at Hagar (see 16:5-6) and tells Abraham to 'cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands Abraham to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14
    God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13
    Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10
    "Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son."
    Why did God love Abraham so much? Because he was willing to murder his son for him. (Greater evil hath no man than this, that he is willing to kill his own son for God.) 22:16
    Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31
    "The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5
    "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7
    After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10
    After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24
    Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19
    God brought a seven year, "very grievous" famine on the whole earth for no apparent reason (except maybe to make Joseph wealthy). 41:25-32, 54
    Exodus
    Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12
    "I will ... smite Egypt with all my wonders." 3:20
    God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23
    God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26
    Moses and Aaron ask the Pharaoh to let all the Israelites go into the desert to pray for three days, or else God will kill them all "with pestilence, or with the sword." 5:3
    "Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh." 6:1
    God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4
    "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17
    God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. This is the first of the famous 10 plagues of Egypt. 7:17-24
    The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die.
    But a little later (9:19-20, 12:29), God kills them again a couple more times. 9:6
    The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12
    "For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14
    God gave power to the Pharaoh so that he could show off his own power by killing him. 9:15-16
    The seventh plague is hail. "And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast." 9:22-25
    God wants to be remembered forever for the mass murder of little children. 10:2
    These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. (see 12:29-30) 11:4-6
    God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7
    God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12
    After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29
    To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15
    "I will harden Pharaoh's heart." 14:4
    After hardening Pharaoh's heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh's army in the sea. 14:4-28
    The LORD shall fight for you. 14:14
    "I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour." 14:17
    "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen." 14:18
    "And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians." 14:26
    "And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians." 14:31
    Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19
    "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
    God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
    "For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them." 15:19
    "Horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea." 15:21
    If you do what God says, he won't send his diseases on you (like he did to the Egyptians). But otherwise.... 15:26
    Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
    "I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven." 17:14
    "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." So God is still fighting Amalek. I hope Moses can still keep his hand up. 17:14-16
    Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." Did Moses impose such severe penalties because he feared that someone might see him fake his meeting with God? 19:12-13
    Like the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, nobody can see God and live. 19:21
    God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
    A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
    It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating (see verses 21:20-21). But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. 21:26-27
    An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25
    If an ox gores someone, "then the ox shall surely be stoned." 21:28
    If an ox gores someone due to the negligence of its owner, then "the ox shall be stoned, and his owner shall be put to death.". 21:29
    If an ox gores a slave, the owner of the ox must pay the owner of the slave 30 shekels of silver, and "the ox shall be stoned." 21:32
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
    "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn't we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19
    "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20
    If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
    "The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me." (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
    God promises to "send his fear before the Israelites" and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
    God has hornets that bite and kill people. 23:28
    Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
    Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around -- in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
    Have you killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
    Wash up or die. This is a good verse to use when reminding the kiddies to wash their hands before supper. 30:20
    Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be "cut off from his people." 30:33
    Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14
    God asks to be left alone so that his "wrath may wax hot" and he can "consume them. 32:10
    Moses burned the golden calf, ground it into powder, and then forced it down the throats of all the people. 32:20
    God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor." "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." 32:27-28
    "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." 32:33
    But God wasn't satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. 32:35
    If you can't redeem him, then just "break his neck." Hey, it's all for the glory of God. 34:20
    Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3

    And this is only in Genesis!
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  2. #2

    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post


    Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

    Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
    "I will destroy ... both man and beast."
    God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all. 6:7, 17
    "Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
    God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
    "All flesh died that moved upon the earth."
    God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
    God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17
    God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
    Hagar conceives, making Sarai jealous. Abram tells Sarai to do to Hagar whatever she wants. "And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled." 16:6
    "I will not destroy it for ten's sake."
    I guess God couldn't find even ten good Sodomites because he decides to kill them all in Genesis 19. Too bad Abraham didn't ask God about the children. Why not save them? If Abraham could find 10 good children, toddlers, infants, or babies, would God spare the city? Apparently not. God doesn't give a damn about children. 18:32
    Lot refuses to give up his angels to the perverted mob, offering his two "virgin daughters" instead. He tells the bunch of angel rapers to "do unto them [his daughters] as is good in your eyes." This is the same man that is called "just" and "righteous" in 2 Peter 2:7-8. 19:7-8
    God kills everyone (men, women, children, infants, newborns) in Sodom and Gomorrah by raining "fire and brimstone from the Lord out of heaven." Well, almost everyone -- he spares the "just and righteous" Lot and his family. 19:24
    Lot's nameless wife looks back, and God turns her into a pillar of salt. 19:26
    God gets angry with king Abimelech, though the king hasn't even touched Sarah. He says to the king, "Behold, thou art but a dead man," and threatens to kill him and all of his people. To compensate for the crime he never committed, Abimelech gives Abraham sheep, oxen, slaves, silver, and land. Finally, after Abraham "prayed unto God," God lifts his punishment to Abimelech, "for the Lord had fast closed up all the wombs of the house of Abimelech, because of Sarah." 20:3-18
    Sarah, after giving birth to Isaac, gets angry again at Hagar (see 16:5-6) and tells Abraham to 'cast out this bondwoman and her son." God commands Abraham to "hearken unto her voice." So Abraham abandons Hagar and Ishmael, casting them out into the wilderness to die. 21:10-14
    God orders Abraham to kill Isaac as a burnt offering. Abraham shows his love for God by his willingness to murder his son. But finally, just before Isaac's throat is slit, God provides a goat to kill instead. 22:2-13
    Abraham shows his willingness to kill his son for God. Only an evil God would ask a father to do that; only a bad father would be willing to do it. 22:10
    "Because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son."
    Why did God love Abraham so much? Because he was willing to murder his son for him. (Greater evil hath no man than this, that he is willing to kill his own son for God.) 22:16
    Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, is "defiled" by a man who seems to love her dearly. Her brothers trick all of the men of the town and kill them (after first having them all circumcised), and then take their wives and children captive. 34:1-31
    "The terror of God was upon the cities that were round about them." 35:5
    "And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him." What did Er do to elicit God's wrath? The Bible doesn't say. Maybe he picked up some sticks on Saturday. 38:7
    After God killed Er, Judah tells Onan to "go in unto they brother's wife." But "Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and ... when he went in unto his brother's wife ... he spilled it on the ground.... And the thing which he did displeased the Lord; wherefore he slew him also." This lovely Bible story is seldom read in Sunday School, but it is the basis of many Christian doctrines, including the condemnation of both masturbation and birth control. 38:8-10
    After Judah pays Tamar for her services, he is told that she "played the harlot" and "is with child by whoredom." When Judah hears this, he says, "Bring her forth, and let her be burnt." 38:24
    Joseph interprets the baker's dream. He says that the pharaoh will cut off the baker's head, and hang his headless body on a tree for the birds to eat. 40:19
    God brought a seven year, "very grievous" famine on the whole earth for no apparent reason (except maybe to make Joseph wealthy). 41:25-32, 54
    Exodus
    Moses murders an Egyptian after making sure that no one is looking. 2:11-12
    "I will ... smite Egypt with all my wonders." 3:20
    God threatens to kill the Pharaoh's firstborn son. 4:23
    God decides to kill Moses because his son had not yet been circumcised. 4:24-26
    Moses and Aaron ask the Pharaoh to let all the Israelites go into the desert to pray for three days, or else God will kill them all "with pestilence, or with the sword." 5:3
    "Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh." 6:1
    God will make sure that Pharaoh does not listen to Moses, so that he can kill Egyptians with his armies. 7:4
    "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD." Who else could be so cruel and unjust? 7:5, 17
    God tells Moses and Aaron to smite the river and turn it into blood. This is the first of the famous 10 plagues of Egypt. 7:17-24
    The fifth plague: all cattle in Egypt die.
    But a little later (9:19-20, 12:29), God kills them again a couple more times. 9:6
    The sixth plague: boils and blains upon man and beast. 9:9-12
    "For I will at this time send all my plagues upon thine heart, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like me in all the earth." Who else but the biblical god could be so cruel? 9:14
    God gave power to the Pharaoh so that he could show off his own power by killing him. 9:15-16
    The seventh plague is hail. "And the hail smote throughout the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast." 9:22-25
    God wants to be remembered forever for the mass murder of little children. 10:2
    These verses clearly show that the mass murder of innocent children by God was premeditated. (see 12:29-30) 11:4-6
    God will kill the Egyptian children to show that he puts "a difference between the Egyptians and Israel." 11:7
    God explains to Moses that he intends to "smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast. 12:12
    After God has sufficiently hardened the Pharaoh's heart, he kills all the firstborn Egyptian children. When he was finished "there was not a house where there was not one dead." Finally, he runs out of little babies to kill, so he slaughters the firstborn cattle, too. 12:29
    To commemorate the divine massacre of the Egyptian children, Moses instructs the Israelites to "sacrifice to the Lord all that openeth the matrix" -- all the males, that is. God has no use for dead, burnt female bodies. 13:2, 12, 15
    "I will harden Pharaoh's heart." 14:4
    After hardening Pharaoh's heart a few more times, God drowns Pharaoh's army in the sea. 14:4-28
    The LORD shall fight for you. 14:14
    "I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians, and they shall follow them: and I will get me honour." 14:17
    "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten me honour upon Pharaoh, upon his chariots, and upon his horsemen." 14:18
    "And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians." 14:26
    "And Israel saw that great work which the LORD did upon the Egyptians." 14:31
    Moses and the people sing praises to their murderous god. 15:1-19
    "The Lord is a man of war." Indeed, judging from his acts in the Old Testament, he is a vicious warlike monster. 15:3
    God's right hand dashes people in pieces. 15:6
    "For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them." 15:19
    "Horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea." 15:21
    If you do what God says, he won't send his diseases on you (like he did to the Egyptians). But otherwise.... 15:26
    Joshua, with God's approval, kills the Amalekites "with the edge of the sword." 17:13
    "I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven." 17:14
    "The Lord has sworn [God swears!] that the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation." So God is still fighting Amalek. I hope Moses can still keep his hand up. 17:14-16
    Any person or animal that touches Mt. Sinai shall be stoned to death or "shot through." Did Moses impose such severe penalties because he feared that someone might see him fake his meeting with God? 19:12-13
    Like the great and powerful Wizard of Oz, nobody can see God and live. 19:21
    God gives instructions for killing and burning animals. He says that if we will make such "burnt offerings," he will bless us for it. What kind of mind would be pleased by the killing and burning of innocent animals? 20:24
    A child who hits or curses his parents must be executed. 21:15, 17
    It's okay to beat your slaves; even if they die you won't be punished, just as long as they survive a day or two after the beating (see verses 21:20-21). But avoid excessive damage to their eyes or teeth. Otherwise you may have to set them free. 21:26-27
    An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. 21:24-25
    If an ox gores someone, "then the ox shall surely be stoned." 21:28
    If an ox gores someone due to the negligence of its owner, then "the ox shall be stoned, and his owner shall be put to death.". 21:29
    If an ox gores a slave, the owner of the ox must pay the owner of the slave 30 shekels of silver, and "the ox shall be stoned." 21:32
    "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Thousands of innocent women have suffered excruciating deaths because of this verse. 22:18
    "Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death." Is it really necessary to kill such people? Couldn't we just send them to counseling or something? 22:19
    "He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed." If this commandment is obeyed, then the four billion people who do not believe in the biblical god must be killed. 22:20
    If you make God angry enough, he will kill you and your family with his own sword. 22:24
    "The firstborn of thy sons thou shalt give unto me." (As a burnt offering?) 22:29
    God promises to "send his fear before the Israelites" and to kill everyone that they encounter when they enter the promised land. 23:27
    God has hornets that bite and kill people. 23:28
    Moses has some animals killed and their dead bodies burned for God. Then he sprinkles their blood on the altar and on the people. This makes God happy. 24:5-8
    Get some animals, kill them, chop up their bodies, wave body parts in the air, burn the carcasses, and sprinkle the blood all around -- in precisely the way God tells you. It may well make you sick, but it makes God feel good. 29:11-37
    Have you killed and offered your bullock for a sin offering today? How about the two lambs you are supposed to offer each day? 29:36-39
    Wash up or die. This is a good verse to use when reminding the kiddies to wash their hands before supper. 30:20
    Whoever puts holy oil on a stranger shall be "cut off from his people." 30:33
    Those who break the Sabbath are to be executed. 31:14
    God asks to be left alone so that his "wrath may wax hot" and he can "consume them. 32:10
    Moses burned the golden calf, ground it into powder, and then forced it down the throats of all the people. 32:20
    God orders the sons of Levi (Moses, Aaron, and the other members of their tribe that were "on the Lord's side") to kill "every man his neighbor." "And there fell of the people that day about 3000 men." 32:27-28
    "Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book." 32:33
    But God wasn't satisfied with the slaughter of the 3000, so he killed some more people with a plague. 32:35
    If you can't redeem him, then just "break his neck." Hey, it's all for the glory of God. 34:20
    Whoever works, or even kindles a fire, on the Sabbath "shall be put to death." 35:2-3

    And this is only in Genesis!
    and shows you have never read the bible. But yes lots of violence is in the bible, men are sinners. However you quoted a section where i show the god of the bible is all loving and loves unconditional. Where as the god as portrayed in the koran love is conditional. That has nothing to do with violence in the bible or the Koran. Please read more carefully next time.

    And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,keeping mercy for thousands,forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty
    Exodus 34 6-7
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  3. #3
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    and shows you have never read the bible. But yes lots of violence is in the bible, men are sinners. However you quoted a section where i show the god of the bible is all loving and loves unconditional. Where as the god as portrayed in the koran love is conditional. That has nothing to do with violence in the bible or the Koran. Please read more carefully next time.

    And the Lord passed before him and proclaimed, “The Lord, the Lord God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abounding in goodness and truth,keeping mercy for thousands,forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty
    Exodus 34 6-7
    Did Moses lead the Jews into the Promised Land? If not, why not?

  4. #4

    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Did Moses lead the Jews into the Promised Land? If not, why not?
    not sure how this has anything to do with the thread but no he did not, joshua did.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

  5. #5
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    not sure how this has anything to do with the thread but no he did not, joshua did.

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan
    IIRC Moses transgressed in some way or other, as a result of which God denied him the honour of leading the Israelites into the Promised Land. Looking up on wiki, the story is that some of the Israelites quailed at the prospect of fighting against the Canaanites, and God thus cursed the generation not to enter the Promised Land. So much for unconditional love.

  6. #6

    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    IIRC Moses transgressed in some way or other, as a result of which God denied him the honour of leading the Israelites into the Promised Land. Looking up on wiki, the story is that some of the Israelites quailed at the prospect of fighting against the Canaanites, and God thus cursed the generation not to enter the Promised Land. So much for unconditional love.
    I am aware but would rather not look it up on wiki but the bible. I can see what you are saying now but i am not sure you grasp unconditional love. I love my children unconditionally, yet that does not mean i punish them. Moses was held in high regard as much as any human by god in his life and after and is in haven with the lord [see matt 17]. Are you suggesting that this does not include moses? “But god demonstrated his love for us that while we were sinners Christ died for us” Romans 5.8. Punishment is not based on lack of love, in fact we punish and correct because we love.

    because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."
    hebrews 12.6

    because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in
    proverbs 3.12



    Go visit people in jail and ask them if they had a loving father who cared for them enough to discipline them. I think you already know the answer.
    Last edited by total relism; 05-06-2018 at 12:14.
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    I am aware but would rather not look it up on wiki but the bible. I can see what you are saying now but i am not sure you grasp unconditional love. I love my children unconditionally, yet that does not mean i punish them. Moses was held in high regard as much as any human by god in his life and after and is in haven with the lord [see matt 17]. Are you suggesting that this does not include moses? “But god demonstrated his love for us that while we were sinners Christ died for us” Romans 5.8. Punishment is not based on lack of love, in fact we punish and correct because we love.

    because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."
    hebrews 12.6

    because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in
    proverbs 3.12



    Go visit people in jail and ask them if they had a loving father who cared for them enough to discipline them. I think you already know the answer.
    Does an unconditionally loving father believe in group punishment? Ie. if child A steps out of line, the whole lot gets punished.

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    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    and shows you have never read the bible.
    Indeed it would be too rush to make such claims. I read it (with a great effort, though, as it was an incredibly boring reading, yet I saw it through). I don't discuss things I have no knowledge of.

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    But yes lots of violence is in the bible, men are sinners. However you quoted a section where i show the god of the bible is all loving and loves unconditional.
    YOU showed? I read the Bible myself and I believe I have as much right to iterpret its texts as you do. As you would put it, God gave me brains so that I could understand things around me.

    As I have remarked at the beginning of all this to-do, Bible is the poorest choice for a discussion since it contains heaps of contradictory advice. It is how you approach it and what you choose that matters. So much for words and deeds, btw.

    As for "unconditional love": shall I again quote the part where a person (and his offspring in several generations) was cursed just because he prayed to another God? So the main condition of God's love in Bible, as I see it, boils down to staying Christian. If you do, he will forgive you everything.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 05-06-2018 at 04:57.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  9. #9

    Default Re: A Comparison of the Biblical God vs Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    Indeed it would be too rush to make such claims. I read it (with a great effort, though, as it was an incredibly boring reading, yet I saw it through). I don't discuss things I have no knowledge of.


    YOU showed? I read the Bible myself and I believe I have as much right to iterpret its texts as you do. As you would put it, God gave me brains so that I could understand things around me.

    As I have remarked at the beginning of all this to-do, Bible is the poorest choice for a discussion since it contains heaps of contradictory advice. It is how you approach it and what you choose that matters. So much for words and deeds, btw.

    As for "unconditional love": shall I again quote the part where a person (and his offspring in several generations) was cursed just because he prayed to another God? So the main condition of God's love in Bible, as I see it, boils down to staying Christian. If you do, he will forgive you everything.
    Than i am surprised by your list. Perhaps you should more closely look it over.


    Yes I showed the bible portrays a god who loves unconditionally, can you refute this? The problem we have is when people want to "interpret" the bible in their own way. That really means make the bible say whatever liberals and secularist tell them it says, witch is what they want it to say rather than what it says. I dont blame you, i wish i could do the same with the federal tax code.


    The problem is the human heart wants to make an idol and twist god into what they want. You want to make it contradict itself [even if shown it does not] so you can than say this cant be from god [good because i dont like what it says] so i can reject it.



    you said "it contains heaps of contradictory advice. It is how you approach it and what you choose that matters"

    This is my point. You dont see it as what it claims gods word [we would not want that] so anything you can try and make a contradiction, you will so as to justify intellectually your rejection of it. You chose to ignore text that clarify claimed contradictions [as i have shown on other threads] and come with an approach to it to try and find an escuse to create contradictions. As i have said before i always make threads on various objections and people say they dont believe for some other reason [as you always bring up contradictions] I will make a thread specific for contradictions and on that thread you can bring up any claimed you wish and i will respond. I will even pm you before i put it up so you can be the first.


    This is another reason why i am not convinced you have read the bible. A few ways to correct your post. First as we have been through this before god does not punish the next generation for the sins of the father. It is only when you take the human commentary of chapters and verses and try and make an entire theology out of it rather than the text witch is gods word, that you can create a fake theology that says god punishes the next generation for the sins of the father.

    Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.
    Deut. 24:16

    The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
    Ezekiel 18:20

    they continue in fathers sins will cause judgment, otherwise god would relent example 1 sam 15 3 and 5 god says he will punish amalakites for what happened in Egypt long before [fathers]. Yet they continued in fathers sin judges 3.12 6 3-5,33 7.12 10.12 etc 1 sam 30 1 sam 15.18 show they are presently wicked.


    A key to understanding this business is a concept called vicarious punishment that is found in the law codes of the ANE. Greenberg [Chr.SPPS, 295] offers these examples:

    A creditor who has maltreated the distrained sin of his debtor that he dies, must lose his own son. If a man struck the pregnant daughter of another so that she miscarried and died, his own daughter must be put to death. A seducer must deliver his wife to the seduced girl's father for prostitution. In another class are penalties which involve the substitution of a dependent for the offerer -- the Hittite laws compelling a slayer to deliver so many persons to the kinsmen of the slain, or prescribing that a man who has pushed another into a fire must give over his son...Now it is precisely this kind of punishment, which was prescribed in every law code in the Near East, that Deut. 24:16 is intended to forbid. The verse is not a universal motto, but a time-specific law intended as a direct counter to the practices listed above. "The proper understanding of this requires...that it be recognized as a judicial provision, not a theological dictum." [Chr.SPPS, 296, 298]
    http://www.tektonics.org/lp/paydaddy.html




    Punished for praying to another god?


    Your claim is false. First a rejection of god is yes a sin. However they were not punished for not following god. Many non believers were within isreal for thousands of years and lived peacefully. What god did punish was moral behavior. This praying to another god is not a modern liberal tolerance thing, but a following of the Canaanites religions and practices in the land that belongs to god, Israel. If you want to know what that was see here

    You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
    -Deuteronomy 12.31
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan


    God did the same thing to his people when they later followed the practices of the Canaanites.


    4 “Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
    -Deuteronomy 9:4

    The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you. Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God."’"
    -Leviticus 18:1-30


    For mankind to try and turn the sinners into the victims, and turn the judge of the world into a sinner, is an act of an evil heart.

    “Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
    Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
    Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
    -Isiah 5.20

    “Would you discredit my justice?
    Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
    -Job 40.8



    But even if we accept your false scenario god punishing someone for following another god does not contradict unconditional love. “But god demonstrated his love for us that while we were sinners Christ died for us” Romans 5.8. Punishment is not based on lack of love, in fact we punish and correct because we love.

    because the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son."
    hebrews 12.6

    because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in
    proverbs 3.12



    Go visit people in jail and ask them if they had a loving father who cared for them enough to discipline them. I think you already know the answer. God often used punishments towards isreal to lead them back to him, because he loves them.

    “Judgment is not opposed to Gods love and compassion, but rather springs from the character of a loving, caring god”
    -Matthew Flannagan and paul Copan Did God really Command genocide


    this comes out in my thread on the Canaanites and the conquest.
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...uest-of-Canaan
    “Its been said that when human beings stop believing in god they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse, they believe in anything.” Malcolm maggeridge

    The simple believes every word: but the prudent man looks well to his going. Proverbs -14.15
    The first to present his case seems right,till another comes forward and questions him -Proverbs 18.17

    In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    Genesis 1.1

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