EXIT NEGOTIATIONS

[Fragony]

According to the Times 24% are prepared to back an explicitly far right anti-immigration anti-Islam party. This isn't the Britain I grew up in.

That's what political correctness inevitably spawns after a very long incubation-time, nothing has changed it's always there

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Yes, it is. It's just that prior to the Brexit vote, these people didn't feel confident enough to state their actual views.

I am not sure that all 24% held such views prior to the kerfluffle surrounding the Brexit, but your general point that some number of persons held these views well prior and now feel comfortable enough to publicly state them is a virtual certainty.

[Pannonian]

I am not sure that all 24% held such views prior to the kerfluffle surrounding the Brexit, but your general point that some number of persons held these views well prior and now feel comfortable enough to publicly state them is a virtual certainty.

Nigel Farage, fronting the drive for Brexit for years. And now Steve Bannon is planning to support other far right causes in Europe, with Farage also having lent his voice to them. Lovely people, Brexiteers. And of course, one of them assassinated an MP campaigning at the time for Remain.

[rory_20_uk]

Lovely people, Brexiteers. And of course, one of them assassinated an MP campaigning at the time for Remain.

That comment is just as ignorant as saying "Lovely people, Muslims. And of course some of them raped young white girls."

[Furunculus]

Lovely people, Brexiteers. And of course, one of them assassinated an MP campaigning at the time for Remain.

Lovely people, Germans. And of course, one of them set about to solve the Jewish 'problem'. Do you see how this logic takes you to unhelpful places?

[Husar]

Lovely people, Germans. And of course, one of them set about to solve the Jewish 'problem'. Do you see how this logic takes you to unhelpful places?

Austrian! He was Austrian! If you're going to reduce it to "the one", then the origin is pretty clear.

[Gilrandir]

Austrian! He was Austrian! If you're going to reduce it to "the one", then the origin is pretty clear.

Lovely people, Germans. And of course, one of them insists on unnecessary precision.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Alles ist in Ordnung. Hervorragende.

[Husar]

Lovely people, Germans. And of course, one of them insists on unnecessary precision.

Only Bavarians can think that Austria belongs to Germany ("unnecessary precision"), don't be like a Bavarian!
Bavaria is basically the buffer zone between Austrian and German culture.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Only Bavarians can think that Austria belongs to Germany ("unnecessary precision"), don't be like a Bavarian!
Bavaria is basically the buffer zone between Austrian and German culture.

lol

[Gilrandir]

Only Bavarians can think that Austria belongs to Germany ("unnecessary precision"), don't be like a Bavarian!
Bavaria is basically the buffer zone between Austrian and German culture.

To sheep other sheep no doubt appear different. Or to shepherds.

LOTR, The fellowship of the ring, BOOK II, Chapter 1 MANY MEETINGS

[Husar]

To sheep other sheep no doubt appear different. Or to shepherds.

LOTR, The fellowship of the ring, BOOK II, Chapter 1 MANY MEETINGS

You really shouldn't go there, Mr. Russian Guy.

[Pannonian]

"It is about time we brought the Treason Act up to date and made it apply to those seeking to destroy or undermine the British state. That means extreme jihadis. It also means those in future actively working undemocratically against U.K. through extreme EU loyalty"

David Bannerman, MEP (Conservative Party, 25th July 2018

The logical next step from calling opponents of Brexit "Enemies of the People"; make it legally treasonous to do so.

[rory_20_uk]

"It is about time we brought the Treason Act up to date and made it apply to those seeking to destroy or undermine the British state. That means extreme jihadis. It also means those in future actively working undemocratically against U.K. through extreme EU loyalty"

David Bannerman, MEP (Conservative Party, 25th July 2018

The logical next step from calling opponents of Brexit "Enemies of the People"; make it legally treasonous to do so.

Given that Treason is disloyalty to the Crown, that can pretty much mean anything one wishes it to mean. Of course there would be a Constitutional Crisis if the Crown were to use the powers apart from delegating to the PM.

Politicians spouting meaningless rhetoric... whatever next!

[Elmetiacos]

"It is about time we brought the Treason Act up to date and made it apply to those seeking to destroy or undermine the British state. That means extreme jihadis. It also means those in future actively working undemocratically against U.K. through extreme EU loyalty"

David Bannerman, MEP (Conservative Party, 25th July 2018

The logical next step from calling opponents of Brexit "Enemies of the People"; make it legally treasonous to do so.

We might invent a new game where we try to guess whether something was said by David Bannerman or by Recep Tayip Erdoğan...

[Pannonian]

We might invent a new game where we try to guess whether something was said by David Bannerman or by Recep Tayip Erdoğan...

Apparently the above quote was the second version of his tweet. The original omitted "future", meaning current opposition to Brexit would count as treason. Nice people, these Brexiteers.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You lot are getting to be as politically bi polar as we yanks.

[Pannonian]

You lot are getting to be as politically bi polar as we yanks.

In this case, it's because the decision, once implemented, cannot be reversed within a generation or more. I certainly don't expect to see any reversal within my lifetime, and I'm not exactly old. Normal elections run in cycles of a maximum of 5 years; there have been 3 general elections since 2010. If there is a referendum to suspend democratic elections for 50 years, as Jacob Rees Mogg claims it will take for the benefits of Brexit to become clear, then I'd say that even a victory for suspension would not be democratically valid.

Oh, and do you remember Monty mocking my predictions of chaos should no-deal occur? The UK government is now preparing on that basis, taking steps to ensure "an adequate food supply" and the NHS stockpiling essential supplies. A 10 mile motorway has also been designated as a lorry park after incoming customs checks cause queues. That's now the expected outcome, rather than an improbable what-if.

[Montmorency]

In this case, it's because the decision, once implemented, cannot be reversed within a generation or more. I certainly don't expect to see any reversal within my lifetime, and I'm not exactly old. Normal elections run in cycles of a maximum of 5 years; there have been 3 general elections since 2010. If there is a referendum to suspend democratic elections for 50 years, as Jacob Rees Mogg claims it will take for the benefits of Brexit to become clear, then I'd say that even a victory for suspension would not be democratically valid.

Oh, and do you remember Monty mocking my predictions of chaos should no-deal occur? The UK government is now preparing on that basis, taking steps to ensure "an adequate food supply" and the NHS stockpiling essential supplies. A 10 mile motorway has also been designated as a lorry park after incoming customs checks cause queues. That's now the expected outcome, rather than an improbable what-if.

I bloody well told you that I was reprinting your prediction because I took it seriously and found it important.

Now, are there any legal conditions to Brexit that prevent a reversal for many decades, or is just a request for the benefit of the doubt from Team Brexit? If the latter, you're clear to offer them a two-fingered salute as soon as the unionist worm turns. Obviously it would thereupon take many years to negotiate this new arrangement, but my question is about what prevents the initiation of the attempt.

(And as long as I'm posting, I'd like to contend that there is no such thing as meaningless rhetoric.)

[Pannonian]

I bloody well told you that I was reprinting your prediction because I took it seriously and found it important.

Now, are there any legal conditions to Brexit that prevent a reversal for many decades, or is just a request for the benefit of the doubt from Team Brexit? If the latter, you're clear to offer them a two-fingered salute as soon as the unionist worm turns. Obviously it would thereupon take many years to negotiate this new arrangement, but my question is about what prevents the initiation of the attempt.

(And as long as I'm posting, I'd like to contend that there is no such thing as meaningless rhetoric.)

Admission into the EU requires ratification by all existing members. Every single one of them has a veto should the UK change its mind. The Brexiteers have been doing their best to burn all bridges and boats.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The EU is aware of the internal politics of the UK. The best way to defeat the Brexiteers isn't to take the bait to their insults and burned bridges.

Let them back in, no matter what they say or threaten to do.

[Pannonian]

The EU is aware of the internal politics of the UK. The best way to defeat the Brexiteers isn't to take the bait to their insults and burned bridges.

Let them back in, no matter what they say or threaten to do.

And why would the 27, every single one of them, do so? Why wouldn't at least one of them set red lines that everyone knows the UK can't meet? A small part of Belgium held up a trade agreement with Canada for over a decade, that everyone else had agreed to.

[a completely inoffensive name]

And why would the 27, every single one of them, do so? Why wouldn't at least one of them set red lines that everyone knows the UK can't meet? A small part of Belgium held up a trade agreement with Canada for over a decade, that everyone else had agreed to.

There are much bigger stakes here. If you set the precedent that one rogue state will be allowed to prevent re-entry, than all the right-wing movements just bide their time until they have enough power to trigger Article 50(?) and then they are free forever.

[Pannonian]

There are much bigger stakes here. If you set the precedent that one rogue state will be allowed to prevent re-entry, than all the right-wing movements just bide their time until they have enough power to trigger Article 50(?) and then they are free forever.

Support for the EU has risen in the 27 since Brexit and its evident effects on the UK. We haven't even left yet, and the UK government's prognosis is that things will get far worse.

Edit: at least one of our historical allies has called for us to be made to suffer as an example.

[Fragony]

Edit: at least one of our historical allies has called for us to be made to suffer as an example.

You get to know a sect when you walk out the door

[Pannonian]

And speaking of treason, Stephen Glover (Daily Mail) wants the death penalty to be brought back for high treason. Should there be a referendum on that?

[rory_20_uk]

And speaking of treason, Stephen Glover (Daily Mail) wants the death penalty to be brought back for high treason. Should there be a referendum on that?

Only if we can have another if some are unhappy...

People tend to be pro-death penalty (as am I - in theory). But in practice, given the errors in the Justice System this is impracticable at this point.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The death penalty can stop individual recidivism, but its usefulness as a deterrent is doubtful.

[Pannonian]

The death penalty can stop individual recidivism, but its usefulness as a deterrent is doubtful.

Given that the same author also describes opposition to Brexit as treachery against the People, the question is, does the death penalty deter opposition to Brexit, or does it only physically stop individuals from said opposition?

[Pannonian]

Some of the official Leave campaign's Facebook adverts. Nearly every one involves lying or deception of some kind, with one phishing effort promoting a supposed football prediction contest (fronted by a celeb sportsman), that was in reality a data gathering effort targeted at football fans. Brexiteers have since disowned the promises and claims made in these adverts, whilst owning the result of the vote.