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  1. #1
    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the use of crusade?

    Hello MoKus and vet folks. I didn't use Crusades a lot when I first played MTW:VI campaigns, but I sure did later on once I figured out how to use them effectively with my play style.

    One way to build up some high-quality Order Infantry (equivalent to Italian Infantry, the best base spears commonly buildable except Rus, iirc) and chapter Knights (which are Chivalric level in capability for the most part) earlier in the game than you would be able to otherwise is via multiple crusades. Those that survive victorious become available afterwards as regular troops for your use anywhere. In an Early Period game, this is especially powerful, provided you can get the whole process going fast enough.

    Rather than rely on chancy Zeal levels and passage through the kingdoms of others which could have unpredictable results and political consequences, I use Crusade armies to vanguard a coordinated attack with my regular armies. I plan for this early, establishing a solid economic base asap (through improvements and local conquest initially, then sea power and TRADE in most games). Then I devote two provinces to Keep-level infrastructure development with the target being Chapter Houses in each. I avoid all unnecessary building in those provinces until they first build the Chapter Houses because development speed is important--it takes a while and some careful coordination to set it all up without running into delaying economic problems. Once built, I start producing Crusade "crosses" (built as a "unit" by the Chapter House), so I have multiples (at least two) ready for my first crusade series.

    I'll use Spain in Early as an example. Typically my priorities are to enlist El Cid immediately; build first-level economic, security and troop-training infrastructure elements; and then produce basic low-level but balanced combined-arms armies. I take out Aragon asap (in less than 3 turns once launched to avoid excommunication, despite the costly assault on Aragon's keep). Navarro is next, establishing the typical two-province barrier to invasion from the North. Then, As soon as viable, I begin the process of driving the Almohads back to Cyranaecia. This happens relatively quickly--too fast to use crusades, but I keep them prioritized for Egypt, a much stronger opponent and my next rival. I time my elimination of the Almohads with the development I described above, the goal being to have at least two crusade "crosses" built before eliminating the Almohads. I'll pin them in Cyraenacia and hold them there until this is achieved, usually bracing or dealing with any issues that might arise in the North of Spain with the French (usually), British (sometimes), or the HRE (rarely) while I wait for development and production to complete. The goal is to attack Egypt immediately before it has time to redistribute its defenses--with my massed conventional armies on the border of Egypt in Cyraenacia ready to support my crusader army.

    A lot can happen to delay or sometimes even invalidate this strategy (up North), but it usually doesn't change things, just delays them. As long as the Almohads are pinned and dominated in Cyranaecia, it's all good.

    So now my Crosses are built, I eliminate the Almohads (which can be done conventionally or with a crusade), then asap, drop my next cross on Egypt, and I'm off to conquer the holy lands. I attack with my Crusader and conventional armies simultaneously (defense reserves in Cyranaecia, of course--it'll be necessary to control the recently conquered populace). Egypt is almost always unprepared for this given the Turkish and Byzantine threats to its North. Once Egypt is conquered, I usally just take the Sinai with my conventionals and asap, crusade again against Palestine/Jerusalem. I queue crosses in a timely fashion so they are ready at the point I need them for the next crusade conquest, and use my accompanying conventional armies to defend and distract nearby as the crusader army besieges and conquers its target.

    Algeria and Tunisia are the best places to devote to chapter houses initially in this scenario because you won't have ships yet and need to move as fast as possible for this to work well (without neglecting economic and sea-power development!). But it takes a lot of time (20 turns minimum for castle, keep, church, and chapter house, and I find it necessary to also build watchtowers at least and often Border Forts to manage the local population effectively without having to leave an inordinate level of troops in each conquered province). Keep in mind that once the two churches are built, you'll have 4 turns at each location to build priests if you can afford them before beginning to build your crusade crosses. Priest presence can significantly reduce the time it takes for a recently conquered province to calm down. You want as many of your troops moving forward with you, not policing what you've conquered. I built the cheapest garrison troops I can behind my front lines to move forward into the conquered lands as my assault armies move forward.

    By this time, Iberia should be developing nicely (level 2 Keep and associated improvements completed in key provinces) and ship production begins. I try and dedicate two provinces soley to ship production with the goal being three eventually. This allows me to stagger production and costs, producing a ship per turn from the three, paying for only one per turn. I try to keep this up indefinitely form this point on, only stopping if prevented by treasury limitations. Priority of ship use depends on economic situation (may need to establish some trade to keep the florins flowing), but it's important to get naval support and transport logistics active off the coast of the Levant asap. This allows Crusades to "jump" instead of wading through the provinces you've already conquered a turn at a time (losing troops to desertion, messing up your garrisons). It's ideal to have your chapter houses in coastal provinces to eventually enable immediate transport from source to target via your ships.

    After each succesful crusade, if I can afford to, I pull out the special knights and Order Foot soliders and reserve them for the more serious conflicts coming later, creating complete units by combining partials as I go. Before you know it you can build up quite a few of these--and they are powerful in Early, particularly under a high-rank commander. Plus, my king is gaining Influence with every successful crusade. Ah, this brings up one more thing: when the king dies, the new king will have reduced Influence. It may be good to time your crusade usage such that you can build up the new king's Influence quickly with continued crusades (which might mean delaying them for a bit when the current king gets old; they tend to die in their mid-50s-60s).

    Addendum: Iirc, there is a Keep and a church in Castille at the onset on the game in Early. I seem to remember noticing this recently (after all these years, I recognize the significance of this advantage for Spain :/ ). One could start crusading against the Almohads from there earlier. I'm going to try incorporating an earlier use of crusades via Castille while still applying the same general strategy I've outlined in my next Spain/Early game. Also, Leon has a bonus of +1 valor for Knights of Santiago, the Spanish crusading knights. If a crusade is built here and knights are awarded by the pope for the effort, They'll have +1 valor (+1A+1D+2M)

    Anyway, just one scenario that hopefully illustrates one way to use crusades effectively that isn't quite like they are typically used, from what I've observed. An alternative approach.

    Hmm. Been a very long time; not so sure this reads very well. Hope it's clear enough to make sense of.
    Be intent on loyalty
    While others aspire to perform meritorious services
    Concentrate on purity of intent
    While those around you are beset by egoism


    misc kanryodo

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  2. #2
    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the use of crusade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Togakure View Post
    Hmm. Been a very long time; not so sure this reads very well. Hope it's clear enough to make sense of.
    It reads pretty well, welcome back

  3. #3
    Toh-GAH-koo-reh Member Togakure's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the use of crusade?

    Hi there, gallum. Umm ... we've met before, right? Gollum?

    Nice to see activity, expertise, and interesting discussion still happening in here. Kudos, gentlemen. I am finally able to visit and stay a bit and not feel the heavy sadness. It's taken quite a while. Thanks for the welcome, m8.
    Be intent on loyalty
    While others aspire to perform meritorious services
    Concentrate on purity of intent
    While those around you are beset by egoism


    misc kanryodo

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    la-do-da-do-do Member Goalum's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the use of crusade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Togakure View Post
    Hi there, gallum. Umm ... we've met before, right? Gollum?

    Nice to see activity, expertise, and interesting discussion still happening in here. Kudos, gentlemen. I am finally able to visit and stay a bit and not feel the heavy sadness. It's taken quite a while. Thanks for the welcome, m8.
    So we have.. chase the sadness away mate.. take good care

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  5. #5
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: What is the use of crusade?

    Adding to this thread since it's at the top of the pile - I used a couple of these in my England campaign, and they are of maximal importance only in Glorious Achievements mode.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

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