POTUS/General Election Thread 2020 + Aftermath

[Montmorency]

Maybe, but I will say that it's hard to do that when the moderator was completely ineffective and Trump is just interrupting and shouting over everyone. was embarrassing. I know people like to think of Wallace as one of the few "decent" Fox News people but he's only a bit less bad.

If anything is remembered from this debate it will be that Trump encouraged his voters to go to the polls and "watch the votes."

If we survive election day without violence at a polling place I think it would be a miracle.

Wallace was surprisingly fair IMO. There's no way to moderate Trump effectively unless you gonzo full-expletive in his face, and you wouldn't hope for that even from the roughest Democratic nominee let alone a mod.

Some polling:

Monmouth: 44% of Americans not bothered by Trump's refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.
Yougov: 30% of Americans believe there will be a peaceful transfer of power in a contested election.

[Hooahguy]

Wallace was surprisingly fair IMO. There's no way to moderate Trump effectively unless you gonzo full-expletive in his face, and you wouldn't hope for that even from the roughest Democratic nominee let alone a mod.

But thats the core of the issue though. Trump is a bully. Coddling a bully gets you nowhere. I think Philippe Reines had a great quote about trying to debate Trump: "It's like Yo-Yo Ma trying to perform at Carnegie Hall when there's a guy with an air horn 10 feet away."

Gotta take away his airhorn if you want it to be an actual debate.

Edit: the second debate is in the town hall format which absolutely plays to Biden's strengths (empathy and personal connection). I think that one would go far better for Biden.

Some polling:

Monmouth: 44% of Americans not bothered by Trump's refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power.
Yougov: 30% of Americans believe there will be a peaceful transfer of power in a contested election.

I suppose I shouldnt be surprised how seemingly few Americans are concerned about this.

[Montmorency]

Maybe I'm speaking as a New Yorker, but sometimes I feel like this is the kind of register in which to address Trump:



But no one is gonna do it, and to do it well you need experience or acculturation on top of the right personality. By all means Trump has dipped into this register many a time in his life behind closed doors...

In the end a proper "debate" of the sort we elevate in American discourse is impossible to hold with Trump as a participant, because you're putting humans against incontinent pigeons.

I suppose I shouldnt be surprised how seemingly few Americans are concerned about this.

Second poll implies a lot of concern, and 44% in the first poll is basically Trump's total support.

[ReluctantSamurai]

First impressions:

Trump never once looked at the camera to address the American people. Biden constantly did so. I think that makes a subliminal impact.

Trump said literally nothing about what he plans for the next four years if re-elected. Biden didn't necessarily do a great job of laying out his plans, but at least he had them.

In order to make up ground with the "Undecided", Trump had to essentially destroy Biden, to which he failed, IMHO. Biden has never been known as a great debater, but he at least held his own. Should he have been more aggressive? Yes. OTOH, I have the feeling that people (except Trump's hardcore base) are tired of the loud-mouthed bully that simply likes to wield the big stick.

And the most ominous part came at the end. When Wallace asked Trump to denounce white supremacy, his answer--- "be on standby". You can guarantee there will be violence.....lots of violence if/when he loses the election.

[Montmorency]

Dave Wasserman had the brilliant idea of mods just cutting off the mic of the candidate whose turn is pending.

Why has that never been tried before?

Has it been tried before?

[Hooahguy]

Dave Wasserman had the brilliant idea of mods just cutting off the mic of the candidate whose turn is pending.

Why has that never been tried before?

Has it been tried before?

I think it has, just not for a Trump debate I dont think. Yang claimed his mic got cut off in one debate but the moderators denied it.

But for this debate, the issue is that it was a Fox News hosted debate. Do you think any of them, even Wallace, would dare cut off his mic? I guess we will see if the other moderators have more guts to do so.

Some more new polling:

YouGov/CBS
Tonight Debate made you think...

Biden:
Better of him 38% (+6)
Worse of him 32%
.
Trump:
Better of him 24% (-18)
Worse of him 42%

[ReluctantSamurai]

The whole thing was painful to watch. Wallace lost any semblance of control, and one the best lines was:

Biden: “I can’t remember everything he was ranting about.”

Wallace: “I’m having trouble myself.”

I pity Steve Scully, and especially Kristen Welker because, as a woman, she will be wholly dismissed by Trump.

Dave Wasserman had the brilliant idea of mods just cutting off the mic of the candidate whose turn is pending.

Something will need to be done, as I don't think people want to watch another "dumpster fire on top of Burning Tire Mountain during an eruption of Mount Shitshow."

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This is the way Trump does debates. If you cut off his microphone he will walk closer to the other mic' and raise his voice.

His base loves this -- they view it as someone finally not letting the libs get away with it.

We will see if this has any impact on the last few undecideds.

[ReluctantSamurai]

After watching the rerun (painfully), there were several places where Biden could've scored big, IMHO.

On the pandemic, I would've started with the decision to suppress it's existence...lying to the American public. Then pushing the narrative that it was all a hoax designed to threaten him personally. Then, the pretense that it will all disappear "like a miracle". Then absolving himself of all responsibility, pushing the response onto each state, and then actively hindering their response (especially 'Blue States') by buying up international supplies before states could procure them, and doling them out to states that were 'nice to me'. Then came the touting of questionable 'cures' even to the point of absurdly suggesting using bleach internally. The whole narrative from the very beginning had not a shred of concern for the people he's supposed to lead, but of saving himself from criticism in the face of an ever spreading pandemic.

A 'War President' as Trump has touted himself, must have a plan. No good general ever goes into battle without a plan. Eight months into this pandemic, there is still no national plan to combat the virus. Every insistence to 'open it up' has led to a fresh round of infections...whack-a-mole is the presidents plan.

On the vaccine, when Trump said his experts are wrong, I would've had a simple question. "Mr. President, what are your medical credentials? A degree in epidemiology? One in micro-biology? A medical degree of any kind? Oh, that's right, your degree is in showmanship, from the school of The Apprentice!"

On climate change, and particularly the wild fires in California, when Trump went into his diatribe about cleaning the forest floor, Biden should have reminded him that almost 60% of the forest land in California is federally owned, so perhaps he should start handing out rakes to Department of Agriculture employees and get them to work raking leaves.

Biden should've pointed out that being audited by the IRS does not preclude Trump from releasing his taxes. There is no law on the books that says tax returns have to be held in confidentiality during an audit. Biden did, however, call for Trump to prove the NYT wrong by releasing those tax returns.

There were other places he could have landed good body blows, but I can't bring myself to review that dumpster fire more than once

Anyway, Joe might have held his own, but he could have done a lot more, IMHO.....