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  1. #1
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    No I don't. The only thing I get is that you delight in constantly reminding me that the Crimea is occupied by Russia. Still I don't get why the occupation should delight you.
    Your defensiveness makes you an irresistible target. Relax a bit, Ukraine will survive, even if you don't protect her honour every time. Did I get mad that the Greek army was expelled from Istanbul and Anatolia? No, in fact, I'm glad that our invasion and attempted annexation of foreign lands failed, which also renders me less vulnerable to jabs at national sensitivities.

    Anyway, back to topic, our Caucasian brothers were also featured in Wednesday's Capitol affair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    I think for most sane people in the US, that belief went away in November 2016.
    Exceptionalism is one of the main factors that the Trump phenomenon was allowed to gain such extraordinary influence. For a developed nation, America seems too much indoctrinated with chauvinism and militarism, both of which are inherently far-right principles and contribute to make xenophobic and racist messages more easily digestible to the wider public. Even here in the backwards Balkans, people are less obsessed with the uniqueness of the nation, the army and the veterans. The most long-term way to safeguard the republican foundations of your institution is to reconsider the values that mainstream/pop culture and the education system transmits to the citizens. The situation has improved since the Cold War, but in a very slow pace, judging from how absurdly nationalistic concepts like American supremacy and exceptionalism are still taken seriously by both sides of the political spectrum.

    An even clearer video of the shooting. Watch at your own discretion. A question that might sound stupid to our American members: If I understood correctly, the person who shot her is said to have been a police officer, but I got the impression that he was not dressed in uniform. Doesn't this mean he belonged to the secret services or are police officers also allowed to wear suits, while on duty?
    Last edited by Crandar; 01-08-2021 at 13:22.

  2. #2
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Anyway, back to topic, our Caucasian brothers were also featured in Wednesday's Capitol affair.
    There was also a Romanian flag waved over there, cut in the middle (symbolising the Romanian Revolution against Communism), which I found odd, confusing, and if the symbolism is implied, beyond shameful to compare the Romanian Revolution to this insurrection.

    I'm almost 10.000 miles away and this has been left, right, front, back and center news over here.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

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  3. #3
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Crandar View Post
    Did I get mad that the Greek army was expelled from Istanbul and Anatolia? No, in fact, I'm glad that our invasion and attempted annexation of foreign lands failed, which also renders me less vulnerable to jabs at national sensitivities.
    There is a whole world of difference between "invasion and attempted annexation of foreign lands" and protection of one's own integrity.

    But in general, I take it that any sensitive issues and tragic events are allowed to be mocked at on this forum, including holocaust, massacres, racist lynchings, gas chambers and so on.
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 01-09-2021 at 15:40.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  4. #4
    Ja mata, TosaInu Forum Administrator edyzmedieval's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    But in general, I take it that any sensitive issues and tragic events are allowed to be mocked at on this forum, including holocaust, massacres, racist lynchings, gas chambers and so on.
    Of course not. Denying such events is a rather quick trip to Cooldown Town but there's also a fine line about mocking such events.

    I personally do not like it, I find it distasteful and wrong towards the memory of those who were wronged, but keep in mind there is also dark humour, which in many cases was a coping mechanism. Case by case basis.
    Ja mata, TosaInu. You will forever be remembered.

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    Swords Made of Letters - 1938. The war is looming in France - and Alexandre Reythier does not have much time left to protect his country. A novel set before the war.

    A Painted Shield of Honour - 1313. Templar Knights in France are in grave danger. Can they be saved?

  5. #5
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    If anyone is interested, George Washington University set up an online database detailing everyone who has been charged so far in the Capitol riots.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Not sure this is going anywhere:

    https://beta.documentcloud.org/docum...rturn-election

    On the one hand, doing nothing encourages more of the same type of behavior from these seditionists, but dwelling too long on the subject seems like a witch-hunt. Certainly Mo Brooks (AL) should come under scrutiny for this horse-shit:

    https://theintercept.com/2021/01/07/...can-mo-brooks/

    Rep. Mo Brooks, R-Ala., one of the most outspoken lawmakers in support of Donald Trump’s false claim that the presidential election was stolen, floated the possibility of violence as a reasonable form of political resistance while speaking on local Alabama talk radio today. [note: this was a day AFTER the 6 Jan debacle]
    Brooks was one of the featured speakers at the rally and had more to say about it:

    On the radio, Brooks defended his participation in the rally the previous day, baselessly charged that there was “mounting evidence of fascist antifa’s involvement in all of this,” and said that those involved in storming Congress should be prosecuted.

    The inflammatory rhetoric suggests the Alabama lawmaker has little interest in stepping back from his rhetoric earlier this week. Brooks opened the “Save America” rally with a searing speech that charged, “Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.”

    During his remarks, he asked the crowd to consider the American ancestors who sacrificed their blood and “sometimes their lives” to create the “greatest nation in world history.” “So I have a question for you,” Brooks continued. “Are you willing to do the same?”

    Republicans who would not support the effort to decertify Electoral College votes for President-elect Joe Biden also received scorn. “America does not need and cannot stand and cannot tolerate anymore weakling, cowering, wimpy Republican congressmen and senators,” yelled Brooks at the rally.
    If Papa Don gets deserved condemnation for incentivizing the crowd, then this seditionist should get the same.

    I take it that any sensitive issues and tragic events are allowed to be mocked at on this forum, including holocaust, massacres, racist lynchings, gas chambers and so on
    I'm not aware of any members here that are neo-nazi, or extreme right-wing racists....
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 01-09-2021 at 21:47.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Not the typical 538 feature:
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...er-in-america/

    In a famous essay from 1958 on the topic, entitled “Race Prejudice as a Sense of Group Position,” Herbert Blumer, a noted sociologist, wrote the following:

    There are four basic types of feeling that seem to be always present in race prejudice in the dominant group. They are (1) a feeling of superiority, (2) a feeling that the subordinate race is intrinsically different and alien, (3) a feeling of proprietary claim to certain areas of privilege and advantage, and (4) a fear and suspicion that the subordinate race harbors designs on the prerogatives of the dominant race.
    [...]

    And most recently, Larry Bartels, a renowned scholar of American politics at Vanderbilt University, wrote the following in his research focused on the erosion of Republicans’ commitment to democracy:

    The support expressed by many Republicans for violations of a variety of crucial democratic norms is primarily attributable not to partisan affect, enthusiasm for President Trump, political cynicism, economic conservatism, or general cultural conservatism, but to what I have termed ethnic antagonism. The single survey item with the highest average correlation with antidemocratic sentiments is not a measure of attitudes toward Trump, but an item inviting respondents to agree that “discrimination against whites is as big a problem today as discrimination against blacks and other minorities.” Not far behind are items positing that “things have changed so much that I often feel like a stranger in my own country,” that immigrants get more than their fair share of government resources, that people on welfare often have it better than those who work for a living, that speaking English is “essential for being a true American,” and that African-Americans “need to stop using racism as an excuse.”
    To summarize Bartels’s claims, white Republicans who have come to oppose democracy do so, in part, because they don’t like those whom they believe democracy serves. And, more than that, they believe that the interests of nonwhite Americans have been given priority over the interests of their racial group. Many white Americans seem to be asking themselves, Why act in defense of a democracy that benefits “those people”?
    For those who broke glass in windows of the Capitol, who marched in opposition to American democracy, who held up as a model the seditious behaviors of slaveholding states, who threatened the lives of elected officials and caused chaos that lays bare the dangerous situation we are in as a country — these are not political protesters asking their government for a redress of grievances. Nor are they patriots whose actions should be countenanced in a society governed by the rule of law.

    Instead, we must characterize them as they are: They are a dangerous mob of grievous white people worried that their position in the status hierarchy is threatened by a multiracial coalition of Americans who brought Biden to power and defeated Trump, whom back in 2017 Ta-Nehisi Coates called the first white president. Making this provocative point, Coates wrote, “It is often said that Trump has no real ideology, which is not true — his ideology is white supremacy, in all its truculent and sanctimonious power.” So, when we think about those who gathered in Washington, D.C., on Wednesday and who will surely continue their advance in opposition to democratic rule, let it not be lost on us that they do not simply come in defense of Donald Trump. They come in defense of white supremacy.
    More and more pieces have been written to this effect over the past 3 years.


    Reminder:

    On January 20, 2017, the day of Trump's inauguration, police kettled 217 anti-Trump protesters in the freezing cold and arrested them after sixteen hours.

    Prosecutors then tried to put them in prison for 70+ years, on the accusation that all of them collectively broke a window.


    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    It's not going anywhere (neither are 25th Am or impeachment solutions), but it's within her progressive ambit to put it into the discourse. I'm fine with her doing so.

    Certainly Mo Brooks (AL) should come under scrutiny for this horse-shit:
    Now, an appropriate response would be "Death to fascism, freedom to the people", but I recognize it as a more problematic token for elected officials of the Dem party to submit.
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  8. #8
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Troubling info coming from a couple of African-American USCP officers:

    BuzzFeed News spoke to two Black officers who described a harrowing day in which they were forced to endure racist abuse — including repeatedly being called the n-word — as they tried to do their job of protecting the Capitol building, and by extension the very functioning of American democracy. The officers said they were wrong footed, fighting off an invading force that their managers had downplayed, and not prepared them for. They had all been issued gas masks, for example, but management didn’t tell them to bring them in on the day. Capitol Police did not respond to BuzzFeed News’s request for comment about the allegations made by officers.

    While some of the images from that day appeared to show officers standing by to let the mob into the Capitol building, the veteran officer said that they had fought them off for two hours before the attackers eventually gained access. The officer said that many of the widely spread images of smiling marauders, wandering the halls dressed in absurd costumes, had the effect of downplaying how well prepared some of the rioters were to overtake the building, and even to capture and kill Congress members.

    “That was a heavily trained group of militia terrorists that attacked us,” said the officer, who has been with the department for more than a decade. “They had radios, we found them, they had two-way communicators and earpieces. They had bear spray. They had flash bangs ... They were prepared. They strategically put two IEDs, pipe bombs in two different locations. These guys were military trained. A lot of them were former military,” the veteran said, referring to two suspected pipe bombs that were found outside the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee and the Republican National Committee.

    The officer even described coming face to face with police officers from across the country in the mob. He said some of them flashed the badges, telling him to let them through, and trying to explain that this was all part of a movement that was supposed to help.

    “You have the nerve to be holding a blue lives matter flag, and you are out there fucking us up,” he told one group of protestors he encountered inside the Capitol. “[One guy] pulled out his badge and he said, ‘we’re doing this for you.’ Another guy had his badge. So I was like, ‘well, you gotta be kidding.’”

    ....

    At the end of the night, after the crowds had been dispersed and Congress got back to the business of certifying president-elect Joe Biden’s victory, the veteran officer was overwhelmed with emotion, and broke down in the rotunda.

    “I sat down with one of my buddies, another Black guy, and tears just started streaming down my face,” he said. “I said, ‘what the fuck, man? Is this America? What the fuck just happened? I’m so sick and tired of this shit.’”

    Soon he was screaming, so that everyone in the rotunda, including his white colleagues, could hear what he had just gone through.

    “These are racist ass terrorists,” he yelled out.

    In the seven years since Black Lives Matter has become a rallying cry, the image of a white cop, deciding how and when to enforce law and order, has become ubiquitous. On Wednesday, Americans saw something different, as Black officers tried to do the same, as they attempted to protect the very heart of American democracy. And instead of being honored by the supporters of a man who likes to call himself the “law and order” president, Black Capitol officers found themselves under attack.

    “I got called a nigger 15 times today,” the veteran officer shouted in the rotunda to no one in particular. “Trump did this and we got all of these fucking people in our department that voted for him. How the fuck can you support him?”

    “I cried for about 15 minutes and I just let it out.”
    This is really heartbreaking. Im usually not in favor of purges, but I think one might be in order here. And for the Secret Service.
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  9. #9
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trump Thread

    Why am I not surprised?
    There were all kinds of references to foreign nations on display, besides Russia. Flags from India, Romania, and Australia were seen. Far and away the biggest "conspiracy" theory by some conservative lawmakers and right-wing media is trying to place the blame on....wait for it.....Antifa!

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/media...-sean-hannity/

    The desire to tease a forumer and a total lack of decency will do
    I hardly think that teasing this unnamed "forumer" is even in the same universe as the "holocaust, massacres, racist lynchings, gas chambers."
    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 01-10-2021 at 14:09.
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