Mass Effect 17er [Game Thread]

[Manasi]

eod is 8pm

so 1 hr 45

did u like my hot takes

[GeneralHankerchief]

True I did call out specific bits that stood out on the spot about your push

and none of them by themselves would matter much normally, but there are multiple

And when I initially pressed you on them you just deflected off it instead of owning it and adjusting the read accordingly, which only came after you got called out by others in addition to being called out by me

See when you put all the little bits together it feels like you're just trying to portray your push as clean when it really isn't

Including your most recent admission that the focal point was related to (neboulous, mind you)expectations of how you think I would approach the game on a macro level

That to me wasn't particularly clear before because you specifically kept things vague and picked off things like the manti push/meta stuff to focalize

And the rest of it kept being incredibly nebulous on stuff like "well look ara and hally ok sound nice" and then "eph was there too but no"

I think you're cherry picking whatever feels convenient to your story on the spot and keep it vague/open-ended on purpose(this being particularly true early on)

And then when you get called out on the issues/inconsistencies you try to plug the leak and ever so slightly change your story so it fits again

Fair enough, and this could easily be my fault for simply being poor at vocalizing my concerns/figuring out how they fit into the larger parts of the whole. But my concerns are still there and this post doesn't exactly mollify them (nor was it supposed to), so. Guess we'll see how things shake out, eh?

[Arapocalypse]

Noting that Manti/Maple's stuff earlier was fine for a Tuesday, he can live for day 1!!!!

Can you elaborate on the surprise you had at the Montmorency takes, Dolby?

[Visor]

wheres your head at ara?

[ColonelLubriderm]

I believe the two vote wagons are suboptimal and people should move elsewhere

[Arapocalypse]

Heya!
Because they were top wagons and would like to avoid yeeting a townie? tbh I started with my slot and then glanced at Visor's. I am doing it now (together with reading the thread and other uninspiring stuff).

fwiw I didn't like Dya's most recent posting. well voting Esooa could be a thing a townie with few time/motivation could do but it's still very cheap (I actually villa read that post where Esooa claimed to have forgotten why she voted Idon'trememberwho in the first place; much easier for scum to just check it and not make this post). And then the following post isn't a charitable (fair?) description of how things have been moving around her. And it's blatant ATE.

Maybe it's just frustration yes. But I am keeping my vote rn till I am done with these ISOs.

Hmm, okay!!!

Anything exciting that you're getting from your slot/Visor's? Also, why did you start with Visor first?

What in the vote do you think is mafia-indicative of Dya there, though? Also, regarding the point you made about it being easier for scum to just check it out and not make it; why wouldn't mafia just not check it out, in the same position?

...It's throwing me off a little that I can't just pull up the votecount as frequently as I normally do!! :p

[Ephemeral]

I believe the two vote wagons are suboptimal and people should move elsewhere

where would ya wanna go

[Arapocalypse]

Currently, my head's at... I don't think uneasy is quite the correct term to describe where I'm at for this EoD?

More that I don't feel confident about this EoD, and do not think I ever have felt confident about it in this dayphase!!! The wagons feel very shrug, and are not particularly hype in that I'm not overly expecting mafia to be eliminated!!

I'm still shrug on Csargo for instance, and I don't really like voting/eliminating on this level of confidence, just feeling like lots of okay options and not feeling like that many good options!!!!

The not-town reads aren't necessarily mafia reads, maybe they're just not-town!!

More thoughts in 30-60 minutes, sorry!!!

[Dolby]

Noting that Manti/Maple's stuff earlier was fine for a Tuesday, he can live for day 1!!!!

Can you elaborate on the surprise you had at the Montmorency takes, Dolby?

I think that TWTBAW is whack to attach to Monty this early into the game, but a lot of other people were straight up scumreading him mainly from his entrance so imo it's kinda w/e. Felt he's been standard fare and just generally fine thus far, and really haven't seen anything compelling to scumread him for from anyone imo. I can get thinking the posts vibed poorly at least, but it's standard fare Monty

[ColonelLubriderm]

where would ya wanna go

i would lobby for csargo/dya/raskolnikov

[Ephemeral]

i would lobby for csargo/dya/raskolnikov

i mean csargo/dya are the top 2 atm

[Ephemeral]

oh I just realized that's not what you meant lol

fair

[Ephemeral]

Vote: dyachei

[Montmorency]

As a general matter, would experienced players agree that early TR consensuses (as opposed to SR) are more likely to be correct than misplaced?

And I've forgotten how wagonomics works. Someone please tell me what this spread could mean, and how to interpret the particulars of the sudden but inevitable EOD frenzy?

Regarding the game I was referring to earlier, yeah that was an interesting game... or a disappointing/boring game, depending on your perspective!! Weird stuff where after day 1 eliminated mafia, the rest ended up following suit in unchallenged wagons in the next few days, bit of a bizarre game!

Heh heh heh. Hehehehe. Uh. Sounds familiar.

how it started how it's going

[Maple]

We got to watch an ice sculpting demo since the cooks had ice day today

[Montmorency]

reading csargo’s posts keeps giving me the feeling of a wolf that doesn’t really know what to post/how to fake reads. his explanations have felt so vague and nondescript that i feel like he’s kinda just saying stuff to say it

any of the org folk have a take on this? are these kinds of posts normal for him?

I should have a take, but I don't. If I know myself, then I like to give Csargo affirmative slack.

can you cite some specific things you disagreed with capage about?

Do I have to? Leaving aside any issues I have with his posture toward my slot, the first thing I noticed was him starting "meh" on Dolbster, then moving to a scumread, while forgetting to have a process. Felt like a filler read. Setting up two limbaits and a typically-strong townie rival (or at best distancing from a teammate).

As to aggressiveness, part of the equation is expressing high confidence and initiative in his POE.

I think my feelings of CsargoScum have strengthened after Mont's wall agreeing with me. Having someone that's had experience playing with Csargo nodding along helps me with my hesitancy on the topic. So I think with all three of these together I'm going to stick on Csargo for a bit longer.

To reiterate, I've forgotten my metas and I shouldn't be interpreted as presenting a meta case against Csargo. The one post I outright shaded Csargo for was a generic ping. I would prefer Amp ouster to Csargo's because of the caliber of arguments against the former - meaning more opportunity for building a towncore off Amp flipping mafia.

If applicable the overnight should be spent rebuilding meta by rereading D1 of the CFC Star Trek game in which Csargo was instantly caught and ousted.

Also re: Dolbster, he worked very hard to be the last scum standing in that game, standing out of POEs almost to the end. I don't think I need to metahunt to discard slank or dropoff (esp. D1) as a scumtell for him.



But... I see that Rask has subbed for Amp, and appears to be getting a reprieve, while Csargo wagon is leading and is basically made up of people I put more stock in among this list, as of now. Hmmm. I haven't caught up on the latest 200 posts, including Csargo's responses, so this will be tough.

If you follow [Csargo's] posts, they're very much influenced by what had been overall atmosphere in the thread before the post. I think that as wolf he would be more out of touch

I don't have a clear basis for doing so, but hard disagree. You're not getting above water at this rate.

Defense of Csargo noted though.

I think that his posts being more disruptive than anything else is enough to have him as a sr. There are two more concrete reasons. His votes are going completely against the consensus. They have no chance of succeeding and, in case of Hally, he had no good reason. In case of his vote on me, his reasoning was vaguer than I would like it to be.

Actually smiling out loud at the thought of these being presented as legitimate reasons to suss me.

I feel like questioning GH now could lead to me becoming chaotic. It's not out of realm of possibilities that he's a wolf, but I partially sheeped his scumreads. I don't think Eph is in risk of getting eliminated today. GH being a wolf would spew Cuth, Eph and Visor town. Maybe even Amy and Dolby (but Dolby not responding to GH's case and GH jumping back to Amy makes this questionable). I don't want to go there now. Losing town GH would be a greater disaster than letting wolf GH live longer.
I probably won't be very active between now and eod, but I want to reread the thread overnight and focus on Dolby, Monty and GH, while reading it.

I like that you're focusing on Dolb-GH at least.

Hey Zelda

Would you say that Monty's performance as maf in Princes was typical for him or is he more able to post well as maf than that?

lol

I kinda tunneled him D1 but I feel that he was pretty obvious throughout that whole game personally

I was openly trying to ally with Pizza from D1 I'm surprised people didn't tunnel me for that (Pizza himself was giving me mulligans/subverting my slot for long-term benefit I feel). At some point at least Choxorn (D3 or 4) was tentatively nudging the thread on my open scumming, but no one really took that as the open and shut evidence it should have been IIRC. Part of the WotP experience is non-translatable in that I wasn't playing with the expectation that I could win once it became obvious that Pizza was unstoppable, meaning from late D1.

For starters, this is light, but I think this soft-unaligns Monty and Dolby. I don't think I see the two of them taking this exact same approach with somebody in the consensus town. I don't have much of a history/baseline on Dolby, but Monty likes to bus as scum - or at least, he did back in the day. He likes to distance himself from his partners and take a different "lane", so to speak, and has done this to success in the past. He has also done this unilaterally and without coordination/approval from his teammates. So him taking the exact same approach as Dolby w/r/t top pushes is something that I do not think is in Monty's wheelhouse. I don't think this is on the level of "clearing for the rest of the game", but if Dolby does end up flipping red, I'm probably not reexamining Monty until, say, LYLO-1.

To be fair, I did it first. To the extent that non-coordination is ascribed to me, it wouldn't be applicable if it is Dolbster who is coordinating with me rather than the other way around.

[Maple]

Vote: Unvote

Unvote

/Unvote

etc

[Cuthillius]

vote: Raskolnikov

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #1068

4 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Hally)
4 dyachei (Raskolnikov, Visor, Manasi, Ephemeral)

2 Esooa (Csargo, dyachei)
2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)
2 Raskolnikov (pzelda, Cuthillius)

1 Ephemeral (GeneralHankerchief)
1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: Maple

[GeneralHankerchief]

Vote: Raskolnikov

[Visor]

waiting to hear the results of the isos first

[Zack]

Official Tally as of #1071

4 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Hally)
4 dyachei (Raskolnikov, Visor, Manasi, Ephemeral)

3 Raskolnikov (pzelda, Cuthillius, GeneralHankerchief)

2 Esooa (Csargo, dyachei)
2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)

1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: Maple

[Raskolnikov]

Hmm, okay!!!

Anything exciting that you're getting from your slot/Visor's? Also, why did you start with Visor first?

What in the vote do you think is mafia-indicative of Dya there, though? Also, regarding the point you made about it being easier for scum to just check it out and not make it; why wouldn't mafia just not check it out, in the same position?

...It's throwing me off a little that I can't just pull up the votecount as frequently as I normally do!! :p

I started by Visor because I wanted to read his case on Dya, after we talked about it itt. And also because he implied I would have to fight back on D2, I wanted to check out if I could see what pinged him.
mafia-indicative of Dya: dunno really. About Dya I mean. But it's not uncommon for scums to pick a weird thing and pack it to make it look an acceptable case. The least I can say is that I am not sold on it, but we reacted very differently at Esooa's post and I am wondering if it's AI.

why wouldn't mafia just not check it out, in the same position? I am puzzled if this is a real question tbh (first time we play together so I'll give in :p). Why would mafia do it? To look townie? Above all the unnecesary attention and questions it will raise? I mean scums will want to push stuff and fake others but that tiny bit of derping won't save them if the whole picture is bad. Maybe some will have fun doing it, but I think most won't do it.

I can relate about the votecount but "c'est la vie".

[Maple]

Official Tally as of #1071

4 Csargo (Sunbae, Arapocalypse, ColonelLubriderm, Hally)
4 dyachei (Raskolnikov, Visor, Manasi, Ephemeral)

3 Raskolnikov (pzelda, Cuthillius, GeneralHankerchief)

2 Esooa (Csargo, dyachei)
2 pzelda (Montmorency, Dolby)

1 Maple (Esooa)

Not Voting: Maple

Has es showed up for the last 9 hours

[Maple]

I can't say I particularly trust any of these wagons

[Esooa]

Sunbae, any thoughts on my Eph case?

Has es showed up for the last 9 hours

[Esooa]

idk how to get rid of that quote

[Maple]

The x button

[Ephemeral]

idk how to get rid of that quote

go back to it and click on the multi-quote button again

dunno if there's a more convenient way to do it

[Maple]

Voting me at the moment is tantamount to abstaining, I'm wondering if you particularly care about this upcoming EoD.

it's okay if you don't.