Casual 9er Game Thread

[Montmorency]

i think these are the only times monty mentioned vul

am i missing something?

there?s a certain smugness and audacity to monty?s ?vul was the most obvious villager itg? after making those two nothingburger posts about him D1 that i kinda wanna town read

but on the other hand, i don?t really buy he genuinely believes that or really anything else he?s said today

the supreme confidence that sunbae and i need to thunderdome feels like it?s just pulled from a hat

TDome and Vulgard are the bulk of my D1 commentary. Most relevant:

Extensive activity self-synopsis oesn't sound like Sorc-Sunbae, does it? Much more egoistic. I could be wrong. Am I wrong? If I'm right Sunbae should be in the TDome.

I'm aware of the risk, but if you want to send Vulgard you'll have to work for it today.

Please, isn't it obvious that Sunbae-Hally need to TD? Look at this interesting reasoning.

Always a good process for catching Bart. Survivor of Sunbae-Hally should TD Bart.

I know Vulgard is being POEd, but I have my feelings about that, and there's no one slotted other than you two for D1, and moreover you Tdome together so well, which even you must admit.

Not that he was lockable D1, but it was a pretty obvious loltown ouster from a long wind. And I had that impression even before I read his p. 11 wall today.

My latest Org mafia rands that matter for your purposes are Chess, Visor's Small Mafia (2016), and Futuramafia (though I've never been such a try-hard mafia before or since that period). I don't think Zack can back up his claim, but I suspect we have disagreements on the particulars of each other's meta.

i kept it out of the thread

tbc i did still think he had a good chance at flipping wolf but by EoD my confidence was less than when i initially voted vul (and tbh i don?t even think my confidence was that high when i voted him but i tried to convince myself of it because i was annoyed at his vote on me and the suspicion on me generally)

but it didn?t seem productive to say i was having #doubts because it didn?t really seem like there was a realistic chance of a cfd and iirc i still had three votes (vul, rask, mont) so i wasn?t comfortable destabilizing vul?s wagon

no wei, you din'dt say that it is the official hour for CFD onto Monty/Barto if'n the inclination came sufficiently upon you, therefore you were single-mindedly tunneled onto Vulgard.

i would much rather try my luck with rask tunneling me because he had less thread pull particularly with zack/benneh and i don?t think he was as town read

Suggestive reasoning.

re: benneh, i don?t know if i?d call it a wolf read really but i?ll walk through my thought process anyway

i think the rask kill makes sense for a team that wasn?t really threatened D1 and can afford to kill someone just to cast me in a negative light and continue the incorrect status quo. rask wasn?t really pushing anyone besides me so he wasn?t an active threat to any wolves D1 readswise. he also wasn?t that townread and didn?t have really any thread pull so i don?t think he was positioned as a likely NK. maybe i?m missing something but from my perspective as a villager the only motivation i can really see for N1ing rask is making me look bad.

There are other reasons, but as you note most of them involve a Mafia team clustered among the high posters, including Hally.

looking at those worlds i do think a bart/mont team just kills zack N1? he knows them the best and was reasonably suspicious of both D1 so it seems like the obvious kill for that team and i don?t think a team of mont/bart was positioned well enough N1 to kill rask

Surprisingly good point.

your hedging is starting to freak me out

i think it was who amrock described me as the most indecisive, hedgiest villager ever and i wear that badge with honor

Zack, do you remember what Hally was like in your Mass Effect game? She fooled pretty much everyone. AFAICR she had ultra-pure tone, which I'm not sensing in this game.

[Montmorency]

Also he fits really well into IAWY's famous "vibe tell" about wolves who are there but I can't remember much about their stances without going back and checking their ISO.

Interesting concept.

i dont really know how to convey this to the thread in a convincing way but i think its likely zack/barto/X

game just felt static. dadv basically. i felt good about vulgard for a while but as we approached eod i realized there was no friction in the game which meant if he had a partner they'd given up on him long ago and that just didn't feel right?

ngl, part of it was also just me memeing to myself that i was creature and being doom and gloom, but it was also a genuine thought i had

But the thing is, DADV means nothing in a mini, especially if there is an overwhelming consensus. Invoking DADV at that point over someone you ostensibly comfortably suspect just smacks of PIS.

speaking of monty, i have legit no idea what to do or how to parse his line about vulgard being the most obvious villager itt yesterday

None of you were outstanding townies, Vulgard posted unobjectionably for a townie, there were several better candidates = loltown.

I'm going to take a moment to just flesh out thoughts here:

- There are 7 of us left and I think I can remove quite a few w/w pairings. I don't think Benneh/Hally, Benneh/Zack, Ender/Hally, Ender/Zack, Hally/Barto, Hally/Mont, or Mont/Zack work.

Leaves me with Barto/Benneh, Barto/Ender, Barto/Mont, Barto/Zack, Benneh/Ender, Benneh/Mont, Ender/Mont, Hally/Zack

- Of these pairs, the ones I can see things as "possibly w/w" instead of just "not not w/w" if that makes sense are:

Barto/Benneh: Barto's fixation on Benneh vanity wagon while villagers are going at each other throughout the day + Benneh's calling it out near eod while the clock is winding down.

Barto/Ender: Ender has a few small defenses of Barto in relation to wolf pushes, like while Vulgard is getting wagoned and the thread thinks he's a wolf, saying "don't think vulgard/barto are w/w" as well as adding him to the no blast zone today.

Barto/Mont: The way Mont calls Barto's opening wolfy and but then uses it to try and vote me for Barto's way he talked to me and shade Zack for not catching that Barto is iffy already.

Hally/Zack: The way Hally has shifted from defending Zack to Ender (in relation to Neb) to shading Zack once Neb came in being concerned about Zack too and the way Zack didn't really want to engage me for a bit on Hally early.

- Using peoples posts in isolation, I don't think Ender is a wolf. I don't really thiiiink benneh is one either (talked about that a bit ago). I'm also not really sure I have Hally as a wolf (have talked about this a lot).

I think I want to just call the wolf team Mont/Barto

Good post, but I think if Barto were distancing or bussing Neb from D1-2 (premeditated), he would have done so more vigorously. Feels more like weak pseudo-distancing if m-Bart, intended to suppress the formation of associations broadly.

This is the post I was talking about. Think I villa read it initially for seeming like a real solve approach (like trying to take it from point a to point b to point c) but I think now it's just acknowledging a wolfy post and then trying to call out others from it

It's not a "wolfy post," it's just in Barto's scum meta for the way it was constructed (which no one else picked up on). Moreover, he just carried on making weak and tangential pushes with restrained analysis up to the present, also within meta. He could also just be incredibly bored I suppose.

[Hally]

I thought about the kill briefly. Realized there were too many factors for me to come with anything concrete from it (even mentioned I was going to ignore it). Maybe Rask died due to history with a wolf, maybe Rask died for pushing you and I'm silly, maybe it was a widely villa read thing, maybe everyone else had more suspicion on them at some point. Not really for me to know and I decided to just read people based on their posting or interactions.

well are these things true though?

- history with a wolf is possible, yes and i’ve considered that bart/mont could kill rask because they know him but if they wanna go that route zack exists and is a better kill imo
- i’m a villager so no to him dying for pushing me
- i don’t think rask was that widely town read or had less suspicion on him than zack/benneh/ender

but yeah sure, i get NKA is a dubious thing to solve around and i’m potentially being dumb

[Zack]

Zack, do you remember what Hally was like in your Mass Effect game? She fooled pretty much everyone. AFAICR she had ultra-pure tone, which I'm not sensing in this game.

I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?

[Zack]

well are these things true though?

- history with a wolf is possible, yes and i’ve considered that bart/mont could kill rask because they know him but if they wanna go that route zack exists and is a better kill imo
- i’m a villager so no to him dying for pushing me
- i don’t think rask was that widely town read or had less suspicion on him than zack/benneh/ender

but yeah sure, i get NKA is a dubious thing to solve around and i’m potentially being dumb

they're not MUers and I doubt you could easily map such a mindset about the n1 kill onto a team like that

[Hally]

Hally might be more sus than Sunbae. I don't like taking the easy route of eliminating Barto first, since there's a lot of risk that there's few associations to find, and frankly he's a less-dangerous endgame prospect; order of operations influences my approach.

but i ended up pushing vul D1, not barto so i don?t get this

also ftr i?ve never cared about not lunching lhf D1 because there?s less associations or they?re less scary in endgame or whatever, i just vote the person i think has posted the worst and if that happens to be lhf so be it

[Montmorency]

I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?

IDK. Could mean I have her pegged for a legitimate style difference, or that she's one of those natural opposite-reads for me.

Wish you had more insight on Barto's play, or even his slot's position in the wagonomics, throughout the game.

but i ended up pushing vul D1, not barto so i don?t get this

also ftr i?ve never cared about not lunching lhf D1 because there?s less associations or they?re less scary in endgame or whatever, i just vote the person i think has posted the worst and if that happens to be lhf so be it

Barto stuff isn't related to you. Though I'll note your grilling of him today comes off as authentic.

[Zack]

fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him

good mouthfeel

hopefully he makes a poor post so I can pounce on him and save my green little booty regardless

[Hally]

I don't really remember it and wasn't reading the game that closely. Are you saying she is less villagy and therefore town?

“hallys posts are wolfy

so they must be a villager imo”

- visor

[Zack]

IDK. Could mean I have her pegged for a legitimate style difference, or that she's one of those natural opposite-reads for me.

In a more general sense I remember them being making more conventional(?) posts than here and clear X is wolfy because this, Y is towny because this, etc. and I think they were on almost every lunch in the game. They're pretty aware of that meta difference by now though, it's possible they hammed up the indecision this time to mix it up. Likely? eh

Wish you had more insight on Barto's play, or even his slot's position in the wagonomics, throughout the game.

Your perception of me being an uber-reader of him isn't correct, you're probably thinking of Generic Fantasy WW when I nailed him but I also pushed heavily for his death while I was alive in Star Trek and he was villa (that said I remember him doing a lot more in that game than this one).

[Hally]

vote: barto

[Zack]

?hallys posts are wolfy

so they must be a villager imo?

- visor

quoting from wolfchat?

[Hally]

quoting from wolfchat?

it?s a quote from cogpsy

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

that visor reminded me of in wolfchat

[Zack]

for ender to be a wolf I imagine his partner is someone who has been under little threat all game. he seemed pretty unconcerned with the wagons yesterday and today

[Visor]

Players Votes

Montmorency 2 (Sunbae, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
Sunbae 1 (Montmorency)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
El Barto 1 (Hally)

[Hally]

fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him

good mouthfeel

agreed btw

just gonna kill bart and hope for the best i think

[Montmorency]

fwiw Monty's latest string of posting makes me feel better about him

good mouthfeel

hopefully he makes a poor post so I can pounce on him and save my green little booty regardless

You don't have to pocket me, I'm not loyal.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No sexual.

In the interest of stirring the pot

Vote: Barto

[Hally]

when it comes down to it bart hasn’t made a single post this game that even approximates a genuine solving attempt

if he’s v we at least know the game is somewhat hard and really, his posts are indefensibly bad imo

[Zack]

Vote: Barto

[Visor]

Players Votes

El Barto 3 (Hally, Montmorency, Zack)
Zack 2 (EnderWiggin, nebjiamn)
nebjiamn 1 (El Barto)
Montmorency 1 (Sunbae)

[Zack]

did ender elaborate on tak being in his no chop zone or whatever it was called?

[El Barto]

Combo of working through pairs, other peoples reads, the sheer audacity some of the posts would need in order to be wolf, the fact that hally has been consistently appearing to try and figure out alignments

You've 100% ruled out powerwolfing, right?

[Montmorency]

I think the way I'd say my current thoughts are: It's been floated a couple of times this game that "oh that solve is too easy" but, in the world where that solve is correct what else but this would the game look like? You have this core of Me/Ender/Hally/Neb/Zack that took hard looks at portions of that group, tried to make the arguments that wolves existed in there, and couldn't come up with any substantive arguments that felt right. It's not like we all just *wanted to villa read each other and are hoping it's right*. We fought, grilled each other, responded, worked through pairings, and came to the conclusion that we don't think the wolves are in there. We *wanted there to be wolves in there and have determined it's likely not the case*.

In essence, a group of likely villagers played well and found each other through confrontation + logic + working with each other as the game progressed and all kind of came to the conclusion that the most likely answer is just Mont/Barto. That's not "defaulting and feel bad". That's just how the game's played out.

Dislike the spurious inflation of consensus here, since at the time of this post Zack had two votes from within this group and there were plenty of other residual suspicions to be found. Tough post for towny mindset.

Unvote

[El Barto]

Dislike the spurious inflation of consensus here, since at the time of this post Zack had two votes from within this group and there were plenty of other residual suspicions to be found. Tough post for towny mindset.

Unvote

But still, for wagonomics, let's make it 2-2-2.

unvote

vote: Montmorency

[Zack]

org on org crime

[El Barto]

org on org crime

If that's your guiding principle we can lynch nebjiamn.

[Zack]

did ender elaborate on tak being in his no chop zone or whatever it was called?

guess no one could help a bronana out while I was eating dinner

Oh yeah Barto exists. Can be no blast zone too for now.

this was all i found, did i miss a post after this?

[Hally]

guess no one could help a bronana out while I was eating dinner



this was all i found, did i miss a post after this?

i don’t think so?

[Zack]

If that's your guiding principle we can lynch nebjiamn.

enlighten me

I thought your whole reason for voting him was proven bunk last time you were in thread

[El Barto]

enlighten me

I thought your whole reason for voting him was proven bunk last time you were in thread

You were the one deploring my taking my vote off him just now.