This is Football! (Closed 10er)

[Totally not Taffy]

taffy and baudib are either best friends irl or masons which i don't think ever exists in a 10p game or wolfbuds or i just flat out don't understand the way they've interacted this game

Can you tell me about what bothers you about how they have interacted with one another?

buddying each other a bunch mostly

So first we're buddying up, which might be wolfy

to be clear i considered it could be because buds but that isn't me saying baudib/taffy w/w i'm just expressing bewilderment / sowing the seeds of destruction etc

though not really

taffys been v reading baudib all game

Here I'm sus for townreading Baudib, and then you continue in the same post:

her baudib read is levels of wonky to me

its out of proportion to what baudib has actually done in a way that i think feels forced

for the amount of effort she's put into her baudib v read (not just in this post) it's wishy washy slash noncommittal, and immediately after trying to convince herself/others baudib is town she moves to considering baudib partners namely visor (also despite not w reading visor) - and shortly afterwards asks visor to sell her on w!baudib. separately these are things that are whatever but together with each other they feel incoherent and dissonant imo

i don't think it fits the bill of a villager with a real read that they're torn about

it looks even worse if baudib flips w (and i currently think he will)

with pointing out where I have been willing to consider I might be wrong and Baudib could be a wolf. You can't have it both ways: either I am sus for townreading Baudib all game OR I am sus for considering wolf!Baudib worlds while previously townreading him, but I can't be doing both.

You seem to be intent on wolfreading me over my Baudib read no matter what it is and that's bad².

What I said about Visor/Baudib was a rebuttal of Dyachei's reasons for unpairing the two because I had a different interpretation of Baudib's posts and the value of Visor's push which is quite clear in my post. Referencing it out of context here is bad³

I started off with townleaning Baudib this game and so far I have disagreed with people's reasons for scumreading him, and I have explained why each time. I do not see how he is more passive than other players (Visor's read) or that he is constructing his reads in a way that's too rational (Dyachei's read) or that his vote for you D1 was scummy (part of Cape's read). I'm not exactly sure what Cuth is scumreading him for.

Asking the person pushing someone I think is town to better explain their read to me should not confuse you. I am trying to understand what people think and why, while at the same time communicating my own reads.

[Totally not Taffy]

So they defended them here and haven't really wavered on that until they "tried to create competitive wagons to see what happens".

While I don't find Visor's logs great, boob1's pushes and what he has been saying in general has felt... off to me looking back, especially the whole Gemma thing, like they didn't even pick off their OWN POE. Probably trying to rope me and benneh in if Gemma is town.

Cuth said something similar EoD but like I replied then, when Baudib voted there were three existing wagons: Pzelda (3 or 4 idr), Baudib (1), and Gemma (1). Gemma really was the only option for a "competing" wagon at the time.

Now why he didn't start a wagon on Visor after Dyachei moved if he felt strongly about him being scum is a fair question, but the Gemma vote makes sense unless he was townreading Gemma before.

Also coming back to this thought, it ties in to what I said about baud roping me and benneh into voting Gemma.

Because wolves would probably prefer it if pzelda stays alive over Gemma, because at least Gemma has been active day 1 and pzelda is logically an easy late game push as they, you know, posted 4 times yesterday

This is a good thought. Cape still v

Also the observation in p379 about Benneh's reads was good. Also liked Benneh's reply.

[Totally not Taffy]

benneh are you wolf?

i just don't feel like you should have the opinion that having me as top town is a "pro town" opinion on your end

Also the post makes you look like you gave a half-baked read on Cuth being town, then rolled with it

Cuth could be anything. My concern with Cape was him having Cuth as his top town and Dya as a wolf.

Look
boob1 is doing the broken record tell where wolves like to continuously grasp onto some arbitrary thing to keep paranoia alive

This post is a great example of that

I really don't think both boob1/benneh are wolves because of benneh's vote today, but still (nebjiamn, also if you want me to call you by your username here instead, then i will, but your other username is easier to type lol).

Cape your reason for thinking Benneh shouldn't townread Cuth for having you as top town is the same as Baudib's reason for scumreading the fact that you have Cuth as top town.

"You have someone as your top town who you shouldn't reasonably be townreading" applies to Benneh and yourself equally.

[Totally not Taffy]

I really wish we had competitive wagons instead of shrugyeeting Zelda but I guess that was inevitable.
We can probably just win the game by finding 1 villager in the Zelda voters, assuming Gemma is a villager.

This is bad reasoning bc as wolf if you feel it coming that a LHF town is getting shrugyeeted D1 you stay off of that shit. It would really surprise me if both wolves were on the Pzelda wagon.

Final D1 tally:

pzelda(4): Cuth, Cape, Benneh, Taffy
Baudib(2): VIsor, Dya
Gemma(1): Baudib

Also combine this with your SoD reads:

I don’t THINK it’s Visor now but it could be Visor.

The combinatorics with Visor as wolf go down significantly because Zelda felt like the most natural partner.

Visor/Jan not w/w
visor/Cape is unlikely
Visor/Benneh also unlikely for a couple of interactions both ways
Visor/Gemma possible

Taffy V
Cape/Benneh both V with concerns
Jan is null but I doubt he kills Dya

Why are you not pushing Cuth? @baudib1

More importantly why has nobody else asked this question. We're at L-2 and nobody is paying attention to what you're doing, this is bad.

@Visor I already asked yesterday but please make a case on Baudib that's more elaborate than "he's passive" and "trust me bros".

[Totally not Taffy]

?????? yo tell me someone can think someone is lean v and also just made nai posts at the same time like this

it's like they're trying to suggest jan has tmi but skipping all the steps needed to actually get to a real read of someone having tmi, like that person providing over the top reasoning... not like that person v reading someone you also v read on page 0

"this person wolfy because they have similar read to me" with no further elaboration is just wild

you might as well wolfread yourself while you're at it

Jan's early readslist was post 48 when Baudib had made two posts, namely these two:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wow where to begin

A purposely wolfy opener. This is NAI

Is Neb a noob? They seem like a noob to me.

Calling Benneh a noob. This is also NAI

...two NAI joke posts. Yes I will scumread someone who puts this as top town.

My readslist was post 133, when Baudib had made 17 posts, and my townread was based on the following:

[spoiler="Quotes"]

Cape wok you say I am good or bad at reading you at this point. I actually don’t know.

That’s not what I asked though. I don’t expect anyone to have a read on me at this point.

First mindmeld, I also thought "this is not an answer to the actual question" and it shows that Baudib actually cares about his question to Cape instead of just asking to have interactions with the other players. He also acknowledges here that he hasn't done anything AI yet which lined up with my own opinion.

Cape’s style is completely different in turbos and mashes.
I can see a world where W!Benneh or W!Dya uses “I can’t really read Cape” as an excuse to use kind of throw their hands up and encourage pushes on him. Can also see W!Cape trying to sow distrust among strong villagers, but I’m not quite sure that’s his wolfing style.

I’m not inclined to go there today when he’s seemingly generating more mafia related content than anyone else so far.

If you want a hottish take, the wolf sitting back and watching with glee here could be Jan.

This mirrored my own feelings about Cape and Jan at that time.

PZelda’s opener was pretty cringe but maybe not in a wolfy wsy. We can wait for him to do the coffee tell.

Dya’s response in #86 is probably > rand V for them.

This game doesn’t really start until Visor gets here imo.

I also found Pzelda's opener cringe.

Gemma’s probably too level 1 partnered with Cape for it to be w/w but I hate myself for even saying that.

If Gemma is a villager they’re making reads in a surface level a way that’s probably dangerous. OTOH nothing really has happened, so…

I had not thought either of these but I agreed when I read them.

If this were a turbo I’d say Benneh giving Taffy a tonal V read is probably V for him because the turbo population isn’t great at reading her.

I, on the other hand, refuse to give Taffy a V!lean (cuz I’m a wolf ldo).

Benneh has only recently started trying to read me D1, his read this game felt in line wiith the ones he's made in turboes but he could have gotten away with not making one. He probably also knows that I tend to be suspicious of people who townread me early so this is a fair read on Benneh.

Baudib likewise has only started trying to read me recently so not wanting to do so until I posted more was fine.

Why am I V? I’ve done nothing.

I disagree that he had done nothing, but it's a fair question.

Vote: Jan

I too thought that Jan was likely a wolf at that point, and probably for similar reasons.
[/spoiler]

You are comparing apples and oranges, Gemma.

the rest of these are nonreads imo like they don't feel like natural thoughts its tonally wolfy also this is what actually wolfy going through the motions or whatever it was you said cape was early day 1 looks like imo

also the pzelda read is something


this was pzelda's post:


pzelda wolfy because they said they're not in the mood for reading but played the game anyway is the most ungenerous take i think you could possibly make from that

No, Pzelda wolfy for saying he doesn't want to read and then in his next posts interacting and asking serious questions which requires reading, instead of coming in thread, saying he doesn't want to read, and joking around with people.

The rest of this post I've already responded to.

[Totally not Taffy]

ah I broke the spoiler on that one, mea culpa

[Totally not Taffy]

@Totally not Taffy

are you frozen

wait, that's not rude is it?

i can never tell with these things

You know that I live in Spain. SoD is midnight (I even said it was 1am when I left rvs). You asked this at 7:30am. It's not so much rude as unreasonable to expect me to have done anything other than look at the flip and go to bed.

oh i thought that was going to be something more than just jan is a wolf because he sassed visor

well

oh well

Well I was going to iso Jan after but ngl I felt quite deflated that I look at Jan's Visor posts and go "yes this is a clear wolf let's yeet it" but then it's met with a resounding "meh" from the other players. I guess I still could but between Dyachei townreading him and Visor telling me it's NAI I don't feel like it's worth it anymore.

i'm slightly confused by this are you saying as jan's partner i saw into the future and knew you were going to push him so i preemptively decided to push you? or something else (genuine question idgi)

also slightly confused why your defending me is relevant to this iyo (ngl i don't remember that happening but thanks all the same uwu)

No I already scumread Jan yesterday so it would make sense for his partner to push me rather than him doing it himself. Requires no foreknowledge of my push today.

What I said was actually not true I'm pretty sure Cuth defended you as well and with better reasoning tbh.

[Totally not Taffy]

DADV

Sometimes town just finds a wolf and sits on it, it happens.

Also there's really not much two wolves can really accomplish without obviously pairing themselves.

Also look at me pairing us isn't it great!

[Jan]

I## be honest.
I had no wolfread on baudib going into today.

I think baudibs reaction to this push today is underwhelming.
Knowing you are the likely execution should put you in a mood to fight back or just give up.
But he really does not do either.

There is no urgency which I would expect as the 2nd villa on the block after d1.

[Raskolnikov]

Votecount

baudib(4): Benneh, Visor, Cape90, Cuth
Taffy(1): Gemma
Benneh(1): baudib



EOD in 6 hours (and 17 minutes)

[Totally not Taffy]

I## be honest.
I had no wolfread on baudib going into today.

I think baudibs reaction to this push today is underwhelming.
Knowing you are the likely execution should put you in a mood to fight back or just give up.
But he really does not do either.

There is no urgency which I would expect as the 2nd villa on the block after d1.

See, as wolf I'd expect Baudib to make a hard push on some town to get that second town yeet before dying tomorrow leaving his partner to only need one more.
As town he knows if he pushes the wrong person today we probably lose over it bc he definitely goes tomorrow.
His lack of confidence today mirrors his indecisiveness in F3s where he has hammer.

[Jan]

See, as wolf I'd expect Baudib to make a hard push on some town to get that second town yeet before dying tomorrow leaving his partner to only need one more.
As town he knows if he pushes the wrong person today we probably lose over it bc he definitely goes tomorrow.
His lack of confidence today mirrors his indecisiveness in F3s where he has hammer.

I have no real history with baudib outside of mashes tbh so I can really only take your word for it.
To me a wolf does not want to clear anybody by getting too many reactions when they think they are going down anyway.

Even if you don't find a wolf or push a wolf as villa when in this game state you just have to bleed villa to make people see it.
This is the weirdest game I ever played so I don't even know if I could do it because I don't feel like I have a good grasp on the game.

Right now I think I list like this:

Totally not Taffy
Cape90

nebjiamn

Gemma

Cuthillius

Visor
baudib1


But like Taffy I feel good about because of the work today. the early push on me kind of felt like a mimic of d2 last game where taffy started d2 with this plan.
And feeling somewhat deflated but still doing work after people just blew him off. I just believe all of it.

I don't think cape does that push on day all of d1 to just do that nightkill.


I have no reason to villa read visor but I don't think visor is with baudib, which means there is at most 1 wolf in between.

ben and gemma I still have as villa leans but not like .. lock in confidence.

Cuth is where I would be looking at if I cared more.
Because if Cuth is a villa then I am clearly wrong somewhere else and if Cuth is a wolf then I feel fine about the gamestate.

[baudib1]

Vote: Visor

I think my reasons for lightly clearing him off the Zelda flip were probably wrong and dumb.

I am also just not convinced his confidence in the Cape V read is real, even if I do think Cape is V way more often than not.

[baudib1]

Like I’m not sure if both wolves just park in me here or if one/both are off-wagon just chilling.

I’m going to flip an NFL QB who is hosting a playoff game tomorrow. I can give more details if you’d like but it probably doesn’t matter much.

[baudib1]

I feel like #492 is Jan’s first AI post of the game.

[Raskolnikov]

Votecount

baudib(4): Benneh, Visor, Cape90, Cuth
Taffy(1): Gemma
Visor(1): baudib



EOD in 5 hours (roughly)

[baudib1]

I feel like #492 is Jan’s first AI post of the game.

I feel like I agree with major of his reads though.

[Raskolnikov]

What does a Vikings fan do when his team has won the SuperBowl?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

He turns off the playstation.

EOD in 4 hours roughly

[baudib1]

Anyway I’ll just talk to myself as I try to figure this out and maybe come to a solve that’s correct in DVC. If this helps anyone later in the game at all it won’t be a total waste.

Jan: Can you elaborate on your read on Gemma?

Cape/Cuth: why do you V read each other so highly

Gemma: can tou explain your vote on Taffy?

[baudib1]

You know for some reason I thought Jan had voted for Zelda but he didn’t vote at all. It was Cuth. They both mind occupy the same area in my head - kinda null, getting townresds for ??? reasons.

[Cape90]

Man I'm kinda busy this afternoon.

Also very sure now Gemma is town.

Catching up still.

[Cape90]

Anyway I’ll just talk to myself as I try to figure this out and maybe come to a solve that’s correct in DVC. If this helps anyone later in the game at all it won’t be a total waste.

Jan: Can you elaborate on your read on Gemma?

Cape/Cuth: why do you V read each other so highly

Gemma: can tou explain your vote on Taffy?

Baud I said yesterday

Have you told what may ping you about the slot? I asked you that y'day but you didn't respond. Though it was late into the day

[Cape90]

Jan's early readslist was post 48 when Baudib had made two posts, namely these two:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A purposely wolfy opener. This is NAI



Calling Benneh a noob. This is also NAI

...two NAI joke posts. Yes I will scumread someone who puts this as top town.

My readslist was post 133, when Baudib had made 17 posts, and my townread was based on the following:

[spoiler="Quotes"]

First mindmeld, I also thought "this is not an answer to the actual question" and it shows that Baudib actually cares about his question to Cape instead of just asking to have interactions with the other players. He also acknowledges here that he hasn't done anything AI yet which lined up with my own opinion.

This mirrored my own feelings about Cape and Jan at that time.

I also found Pzelda's opener cringe.

I had not thought either of these but I agreed when I read them.

Benneh has only recently started trying to read me D1, his read this game felt in line wiith the ones he's made in turboes but he could have gotten away with not making one. He probably also knows that I tend to be suspicious of people who townread me early so this is a fair read on Benneh.

Baudib likewise has only started trying to read me recently so not wanting to do so until I posted more was fine.

I disagree that he had done nothing, but it's a fair question.

I too thought that Jan was likely a wolf at that point, and probably for similar reasons.
[/spoiler]

You are comparing apples and oranges, Gemma.




No, Pzelda wolfy for saying he doesn't want to read and then in his next posts interacting and asking serious questions which requires reading, instead of coming in thread, saying he doesn't want to read, and joking around with people.

The rest of this post I've already responded to.

Looking at this big huge turbo that happened yesterday, bauds opening could be a turbo joke and it went over my head because they have so many inside jokes by now.

[Visor]

Tbh baudib if you aren't a wolf I'd punt cuth into the sun

So if you vote there id consider it

[Cape90]

Cape your reason for thinking Benneh shouldn't townread Cuth for having you as top town is the same as Baudib's reason for scumreading the fact that you have Cuth as top town.

"You have someone as your top town who you shouldn't reasonably be townreading" applies to Benneh and yourself equally.

Difference is I never contradicted my read previously on Cuth which is why I questioned benneh there because he did.
Yes I figure that reads change and stuff, I just wanted him to tell why they have seemed to. And he did

[Cape90]

It doesn't work if you point it out

I don't think it's a tell in general

[Raskolnikov]

EOD in 2 hours (tally's unchanged)

[nebjiamn]

As town he knows if he pushes the wrong person today we probably lose over it bc he definitely goes tomorrow.

(I actually legitimately believe this is a slip gn)

[nebjiamn]

(I actually legitimately believe this is a slip gn)

oph wait im a fucking idiot nevermind LMFAO

[nebjiamn]

chatgpt how do i delete ap ost