17er Saints and Martyrs

[Arctic]

Me and rask are villagers

If you are a villager adjust accordingly

Can you explain why? There are a number of shields being thrown around like this that I don't know how to engage with because I don't have the same meta as all of you and it's making it hard for me to find my footing in this game. There are more than 4 players being strongly townread by at least someone so somebody is fucking up here.

[Arctic]

dya gth v based pretty much solely on how they interacted with arctic, might be sucker but

you know they do this stuff as mafia lol

[dyachei]

you know they do this stuff as mafia lol

no, i don't but even if I did, your reluctance to even consider I could be town is wolfy af

[Arctic]

i think it's kind o disingenuous to say soandso won't be d1ed here because it's a strong player list across the board. Arctic has made me actively wolf read him while syn is doing things that syn does as both alignments

yeah, I mean I could say the same about you - that's the reason people were insistent on giving you time to cook, right? but tbh I agree, I don't really mind getting voted out this game, cuz when I'm confident on something and being ignored it either means I'm being a nuisance to town and it's +EV to remove me or I'm wasting my energy on a fruitless endeavour when I could be doing other stuff

i think you guys should just all vote me. I was super stoked to play this game because it's chocked full of people I like to play with but I keep getting wolf read for really dumb reasons. And yes, they are dumb, no matter how justified you think it is. I'm playing the way I play every game but it seems like I will never be able to clear myself to many of you and I don't really have the energy to throw at this game and try repeatedly. I'd rather just shitpost until I die at this point because everything I do gets people calling me a wolf.

i do think you're a wolf but i don't think that you "will never be able to clear yourself", you are probably not getting voted out today and i think you could kill wolves because you tend to be quite good at doing that as town in spite of what you said about a preference for finding a towncore on d1 - but even if i take that at face value, judging from your last readlist you seem to not have reads on a lot of people that i'd expect you to by now either

and tbh when the game devolves into this sort of thing I kind of lose interest, so I probably won't engage with this further and people can handle it as they see fit. I mean I'm here to play a game of logic and reasoning and recent developments have kind of.. strayed away from this sort of thing in favor of emotional arguments and what feels like attempts at guilt tripping (not necessarily intentional but this is certainly how it comes across) so my capacity for caring is pretty limited right now

unrelatedly, i'm kinda resonating a lot with what vanta's saying re: the meta and shields in this game and it's probably not actually villagery but umm i guess i want them to be town lol

[Logic]

FTR, Arctic is significantly less antagonistic here than he was in the one game I can distinctly remember playing with him, but I subbed in late, and it was already a contentious game at that point. He was town, as was I.

Zack, I genuinely misread your latest post. I was positive you attributed "lock town" to me. I still don't think you are giving me a "fair read" and for that I find you scummy.

I still remember liking Ender. I still remember liking Gemma. I have a reasonable reason to Townread Hally.

I don't remember a thing syn has done, but I did see their wagon being propped up around the time I noticed I had (4?) Votes against me.

Rask I feel like I should have a grasp on by now,but I simply don't.

Visor is meh. I expect a little more effort.

[Arctic]

Anyway, I do have some townreads on benneh/hally/jan that I want stated but I don't really think it's productive to elucidate right now - except on Jan for Ender's sake which I would do had GH pretty much not already done it - I liked their post on gemma, and I think the way they handled my posting at SoD in good faith realizing it might TWTBAW is much more likely to be how a critically thinking villa handles a situation like that rather than someone out for blood

can someone explain why Rask is obv town? are they polarized to some degree, or am I missing something? None of their posting has really sold me, I can see that perhaps I was too uncharitable about their earlier posting but even when I account for this I don't find anything showing a villa perspective in their recent posts

I don't really find the arguments for Logic being a wolf convincing. The examples of zack quoted from a different game don't.. really feel that different from Logic here. I don't know what I'm really trying to achieve by saying this because I can't really in good conscience call him town even though that's the way I'm leaning from some nebulous things. and I don't know how to parse the divide in plyers familiar with him acting like he's outted vs GH shielding him, it's kinda mirroring what's going on with Syn who's posts I have even less thoughts about

[Arctic]

I feel like the towniest thing ladd has done is giving me a D1 pass given that he was trying to murk me earlier. but who knows, maybe my reads suck and wolves think it's good to keep me around

I think I could vote gemma but I wouldn't really be surprised if it wasn't a hit. @Gemma could you explain why you townread blade from the "master bait" of GH? it felt like a completely NAI joke to me, and jan's post summarized my thoughts on your entrance seeming agenda'd pretty well, and since then I've felt like you've been pretty impactless even though I don't find your posting wolfy, if that makes sense. so I have mild concerns

I think the last thing I'll prob do today is consolidate a read on Ender cause I've felt like he's town but haven't explained it very well and I would probably vote both logic and syn over him. But my understanding is that he is being voted out for being back and forth all over the place which I'll cede isn't conducive to projecting town but I don't think it makes him a wolf either.

after reading his iso the impression i get is that he is either a wolf just blatantly trying to cycle through murdering as many spks during the day as possible and seeing what sticks, or he's just a villager manouevring through the game in a back-and-forth way without explaining a lot of his random 180s and he's getting wolfread cuz of that. i find the latter explanation more likely than the first because i don't think most people play as mafia like this. but i can't confidently call him town because that first explanation is still there (i do play as mafia like this, lol) and it's entirely possible he is just throwing shit around, mainly because i don't like any of his pushes, even though i lean against that being the case

@EnderWiggin can you explain your thoughts on gemma and dya more

[Gemma]

However, he finally made one such post about 9 hours ago, his most recent post, which contained a good thought on Gemma:

what about that was a good thought iyo

[Gemma]

my only read on benneh is that he's less entertaining than usual from my grand experience of 1 game with him

he v read me immediately this game which is unfortunate but maybe a product of my being outed from p1 last game

[Gemma]

I think I could vote gemma but I wouldn't really be surprised if it wasn't a hit. @Gemma could you explain why you townread blade from the "master bait" of GH?

who is blade

are you talking about ender

uh idk it seemed like the kind of stupid shit i'd do to amuse myself and i liked him for it

[Gemma]

Syn (3) : Ender, Murska, Ladd
GH (3) : Gemma, Zack, Benneh
Logic (2) : Raskolnikov, Hally
Ender (2) : Syn, GH
Vanta (2) : Visor, Logic
Dyachei (1) : Arctic
Arctic (1) : Dyachei

i dont actually have any intention of voting gh at eod because something something bropass or whatever

i wanted to just sheep visor but i also dont really want to vote vanta idk why

not yoting hally/rask/zack/jan/ender today

dya is happiness kryptonite so not touching that

[Logic]

who is blade

are you talking about ender

uh idk it seemed like the kind of stupid shit i'd do to amuse myself and i liked him for it

Blade = Bladescape = Enderwiggan = Ender

Just like you might also know me as Yako, Yakostovian, and Spacecamp,

Yes I spent a post on this.

Also, Ladd doesn't feel like he's "kicked in" yet. Maybe it's a low activity game, but I expect more oomph from him by now. (I also consider him good at reading me, and the last time I actually "caught" him was when he was scumreading me. To which no one listened to me.

This is probably my last post, as I highly doubt I will be awake before 0600 my time. (My alarm first goes off at 0545)

Qapla'!

[Gemma]

hey vanta

hope you enjoy your time here

Vote: vanta black

i mean i cant even tell if he actually wants to yeet them so like

@Visor wolfy sup who is wolf etc

[Gemma]

Blade = Bladescape = Enderwiggan = Ender

Just like you might also know me as Yako, Yakostovian, and Spacecamp,

Yes I spent a post on this.

Also, Ladd doesn't feel like he's "kicked in" yet. Maybe it's a low activity game, but I expect more oomph from him by now. (I also consider him good at reading me, and the last time I actually "caught" him was when he was scumreading me. To which no one listened to me.

This is probably my last post, as I highly doubt I will be awake before 0600 my time. (My alarm first goes off at 0545)

Qapla'!

i only know you as jar jar binks

which is by far the best way to only know someone

ive only seen ladd in one game where i was mod and he had basically perfect reads so uh, not someone i'd be particualrly thrilled about yating d1

but yes he has existed in a kind of vague null space this game

which tbf is a lot of folk including me

[ladd]

Can you explain why? There are a number of shields being thrown around like this that I don't know how to engage with because I don't have the same meta as all of you and it's making it hard for me to find my footing in this game. There are more than 4 players being strongly townread by at least someone so somebody is fucking up here.

They are a villager whonis trying to poke at everything they perceive as wolfy without caring how they look

Thry also have that "i know i am a villager" aura in their posting

Someof their thoughts seem genuine and hard to fake (for example saying dya is a villager unles they are a wolf woth you after you and dya went back and forth for pages...dont think thats a thought a wolf has)

There you go, i tried to keep it meta free

[ladd]

after reading his iso the impression i get is that he is either a wolf just blatantly trying to cycle through murdering as many spks during the day as possible and seeing what sticks

Where is he doing that?

[ladd]

popped in to say that ladd isn't clear yet and people should be wary of him

Dya is clear now

[Logic]

i only know you as jar jar binks

which is by far the best way to only know someone

ive only seen ladd in one game where i was mod and he had basically perfect reads so uh, not someone i'd be particualrly thrilled about yating d1

but yes he has existed in a kind of vague null space this game

which tbf is a lot of folk including me

Real, actual last post
I am happy you know me as Jar Jar!

Also, I'd not be enthused to play with "Perfect reads Ladd" if I were a wolf, but excited if I were town. So someone you aren't thrilled about "yating" D1?
??

[Gemma]

to yate, or not to yate

that is the question

[Gemma]

(yate is a stupid way of saying yeet, logic)

[ladd]

Real, actual last post
I am happy you know me as Jar Jar!

Also, I'd not be enthused to play with "Perfect reads Ladd" if I were a wolf, but excited if I were town. So someone you aren't thrilled about "yating" D1?
??

Yating=lunching so it makes perfect sense



Hally makes good posts but some of them give me the creeps. Its a but unfair to them cause i am not sure i could explain why, they just do lol


Everything else aside i dont feel like artic has made much effort to change their reads based in posting? Idk still not revaluating on rask after 48 hours, having no doubt on dya, feel like with the effort they are putting in they should have a more complete world view of the game instead they are pushing a couple of reads hard and thats it


The 2 above arent w/w fwiw and again idc to lunch either of them d1 but if i had to put down money 1 of them is a wolf

[ladd]

Yating=lunching so it makes perfect sense



Hally makes good posts but some of them give me the creeps. Its a but unfair to them cause i am not sure i could explain why, they just do lol


Everything else aside i dont feel like artic has made much effort to change their reads based in posting? Idk still not revaluating on rask after 48 hours, having no doubt on dya, feel like with the effort they are putting in they should have a more complete world view of the game instead they are pushing a couple of reads hard and thats it


The 2 above arent w/w fwiw and again idc to lunch either of them d1 but if i had to put down money 1 of them is a wolf

Last part about artic is a bit ubfair i guess they do have other reads but dunno, thats just the impression i get

[ladd]

Just realised I'm actually running low-ish on posts and I need to think about ending shitpost hour. Which was fun.

I think Jan needs to be talked about more. Feels like they're sliding under the radar vs the other two games I've had with them. (One I was wolf, the other town.)

More importantly their posting has continued to ping me. (I swear this isn't a "hyperfocus because they sus me" thing.)

#394 especially recently feels like a "Look at these options that are obvious but I'm definitely exploring options."

It also feels non-commital in the way it defers to a townread there.

#81 was the original post that got me sus on them.

Partially because the "Yeah definitely agree with your sus there!" thing on me. Yes. Yes. Self-centric reads shush.

But a lot of the takes in that post were like "Yeah I see what you're saying" rather than really saying much about them.

The other note is that I remember Gemma/Jan having a fairly good measure on each other and Gemma's being weird about me too which makes me wonder. (Gemma I don't have a good take on so I'm a bit ~iffy~ but nothing concrete)

Zack/Raskol are the centre of my towncore tbh. But I don't have entire agreements with some of their worldviews. I am being swayed a little towards Logic (Despite being generally anti-logic trains because the dude gets wiped D1/D2 way too much recently) but I'm refusing to vote there because of the just said opinion.

Arctic I have vacillated on a lot, but I think I've come to "Probably towny" again? I am missing something there because I don't normally feel like a metronome looking at their posts.

GH I'm just... eh about. I do like Zack's points. Consider this a sheeping tell.

I had other things I wanted to talk about...

I might be back in long-post format for now. Condensing a bunch of thoughts because I have like... 10 posts left and I should be going to sleep when post-cap lifts.

Reasoning on jan seems wolfy chief


How do you plead

[ladd]

Gotta get ready for work, ill pop back in around eod

[nebjiamn]

my only read on benneh is that he's less entertaining than usual from my grand experience of 1 game with him

he v read me immediately this game which is unfortunate but maybe a product of my being outed from p1 last game

i've just had a very busy start of the workweek and i do my best posting in my home office, which i haven't been in for 90% of the dayphase

but me being entertaining isn't alignment indicative anywho. i'm a blast as both

[EnderWiggin]

Reasoning on jan seems wolfy chief


How do you plead

Completely uninterested in any of your posts with the subject heading "Ender" because it's basically an ad stuck on repeat right now.

Also fur covered. Obviously.

[EnderWiggin]

I feel like the towniest thing ladd has done is giving me a D1 pass given that he was trying to murk me earlier. but who knows, maybe my reads suck and wolves think it's good to keep me around

I think I could vote gemma but I wouldn't really be surprised if it wasn't a hit. @Gemma could you explain why you townread blade from the "master bait" of GH? it felt like a completely NAI joke to me, and jan's post summarized my thoughts on your entrance seeming agenda'd pretty well, and since then I've felt like you've been pretty impactless even though I don't find your posting wolfy, if that makes sense. so I have mild concerns

I think the last thing I'll prob do today is consolidate a read on Ender cause I've felt like he's town but haven't explained it very well and I would probably vote both logic and syn over him. But my understanding is that he is being voted out for being back and forth all over the place which I'll cede isn't conducive to projecting town but I don't think it makes him a wolf either.

after reading his iso the impression i get is that he is either a wolf just blatantly trying to cycle through murdering as many spks during the day as possible and seeing what sticks, or he's just a villager manouevring through the game in a back-and-forth way without explaining a lot of his random 180s and he's getting wolfread cuz of that. i find the latter explanation more likely than the first because i don't think most people play as mafia like this. but i can't confidently call him town because that first explanation is still there (i do play as mafia like this, lol) and it's entirely possible he is just throwing shit around, mainly because i don't like any of his pushes, even though i lean against that being the case

@EnderWiggin can you explain your thoughts on gemma and dya more

Gemma has been ~there. I think the weird unsurety from both sides is kinda sus (especially since I sus Jan) but I don't have a strong thought on the subject. I don't know why they townread me for the joke (even though they've explained it now "a silly thing I might do as a villager" is something I'd make a read on but I wouldn't then make it sound strong in thread. Especially with the way they responded to my post as if to be like "don't worry I read your stuff!")

Also I re-iterate that my joke to GH was the height of comedy and I'm sad that no one reacted to it. At least I amuse myself :')

Dya is... very town. I think. (Got there before Ladd =P) I am not super super confident because my history on reading Dya has not been the best, but that being said I don't think I've ever incorrectly townread 'em when they were wolf. More often it's me sussing when they're town. (Or wolf. I am an egalitarian Dya susser.)

But with Ladd now jumping in saying the same thing I'm ~moderately more convinced no matter Ladd's allignment.

[ladd]

Completely uninterested in any of your posts with the subject heading "Ender" because it's basically an ad stuck on repeat right now.

Also fur covered. Obviously.

[ladd]

(Jokes aside Idt i ever wolfread you this game before that post)

[EnderWiggin]

(Jokes aside Idt i ever wolfread you this game before that post)

I went back and checked and you're right. Sorry.

You just echoed a post made by someone else and my brain just collated them.

Feel free to read my post as pleading to just being fur covered then.