17er Saints and Martyrs

[nebjiamn]

i don't think i have a particularly great view of the game but here's where i'm at.

i'm not really caught up on today as i've mostly been skimming from my phone during work breaks and i decided to write this post today and get thoughts out so i can go to bed rather than spending time reading. hopefully this helps one or some of you so i can say i did my part


high chance of v
zack - idt i need to say much but ill just blurb out that zack feels like an obvious villager in that in the wolf games i've seen him in over the last year, he's done what i would call 'the bare minimum.' which is to say he relies heavily on his wit and pure toan to get by but he hasn't really gone the 'extra mile' to project town/poke/prod in ways he has here. basically he hasn't tryharded to infiltrate towncores (note to zack that i am not dissing your wolf game at all since you won both the games that i'm thinking of, its just how i've portrayed your game in my mind's eye and i think its a very effective way to win). comparatively with what i've seen here i would be shocked (but not aww'd) if zack was a wolf here--not because he's incapable of this as a wolf, but because this just seems to align more with what i remember from his town games. a vast tonal gulf if you will (not really but still)

rask - every post i read from rask just seems loose and comfortable and i feel there'd just be more tiptoeing and tenseness behind his posts if he was a wolf here. think he's a villager very often here. i honestly don't have a ton of depth on this read but i also oddly don't care or feel like i need to to justify my confidence. game just fits fmpov with rask as a v just like it does with zack.


decent chance of v
ladd - gave my read on him earlier. i will not be surprised at all if i'm wrong but shooters shoot and i don't really think living in paranoia of the last time (every time) he's fooled me as a wolf justifies a wolf readon him here when i think he's been reasonable and also how he approached both myself and dya. decent v for me but take it with a grain of salt

hally - probly more town than ladd. i think she's brought up some good points and i've retroactively melded with her on a few occassions, second only to my doing so with zack. idk, she feels totally fine and appears to be thinking about/solving the game without agenda


slight v but no longer confident i'm not misclearing a wolf
arctic - my previous read on arctic still stands. honestly i wanted to come home and do a big reread of the thread and be able to go into detail on everyone, including a revisit specifically with arctic (and dya and gemma) reads, but i'm just way too fkn tired to do that, so instead i will reiterate that although i v read arctic i am very concerned that people on both sides of my reads have or had issues with arctic throughout the day, hence me lowering him into this category

dyachei - gth i think dya is v now, but my previous suspicion still stands. it feels like they may have struggled to get into the flow of the game. its very possible thats just a result of outside game stuff. i know it is possible actually, but i also think they have mostly have been fairly critiqued by (some)(most?) ppl who've talked about them. see: previous paragraph re: rereading and why that didn't happen for dya's slot but their reactions in the second half of the day are enough to make me not want to go there today but i can't say i feel confident they aren't a wolf here either. sort with caution etc.


wishy washy / null / the slighest of leans either way
wisdom - the tiniest of town leans/sliiiiightly north of null for silly meta purposes, like I think they'd just be a bit more obvious as a wolf here and i haven't gotten that feeling skimming their posts, but i also have mostly just skimmed them (sorry wisdom, its not you its me etc)

gemma - i said gemma's posts are ok earlier and they were but i am just officially rescinding that for legacy porpoises because i do not hold an active tr on this slot. in fact i got nothing. this is purely a null slot for me atp. i wish i had the energy to dig in here, because this feels like a potential good place to look (not necessarily as a wolf, just as a basis for solving) but i dont, sorry not sorry.

visor - a bit fishy but nothing strong. looks good if logic flips w. probly looks bad if logic flips v. there are nonbinary worlds for him where he's probably still ok even if he's wrong but i don't think there are ones where he's bussing logic. at least not often enough for me to give a damn on a day 1 reads list.


i don't mind if these die
vanta black / murska - if i was a wagering man, i'd put murska more likely as town and vanta black as more likely wolf but honestly i can't be assed to sort these two. i don't care if they die but also i don't think they're good day 1 yeets so hopefully they're just solved somehow later on, glgl with that

syn - i'm kind of just sheeping others on syn a bit. i don't really have much of a read on them but i'd be more interested in solving / yeeting here than vanta/murska


wolfy but watch this be 0/3
gh - i just don't vibe with my dude's posting. i think the 'dropping the shield post' was very wolfy both in timing and execution and its not really how i expect gh to handle a logic defense. i don't really agree that they are a package deal--there's obviously a good chance they're w/w if one flips wolf but i also think gh could have just done that as a villager (noting ladd's commentary and gh's own self-meta here but i just don't buy there isn't a scenario he can't defend v!logic in while still hoping to see him go over (either d1 or another)

all that to say, i don't wanna preflip gh based off logic sus, but again, just not vibing. i also got icky icky feelings when he turned around and commented (i think it was a hally post) that hally may be correct on a post about dya -- even though i think hally's post was good and made good points (and even i agreed that it might be a valid point!), just the way that came around felt slimey. idk. siw, GH.

ender - i don't really like ender's posts this day phase but i kinda think of my bottom 4 reads he's most likely to flip v of them based off whatever arbitrary metric is going off in my brain right now while i write this stuff. i'd lunch him still but i'd rather go logic first.


logic - i just dont get this dudes posting lol. i don't get how he's wolf reading zack. his scumreads (excluding zack) feel a bit consensus-y and lhf (i acknowledge that i also have ender as a wolf but see above re: my thoughts on me potentially being wrong on him + like, chance of bussing / spew / etc) and while sometimes the wolves are just consensus-y and lhf i don't really feel like there's true belief behind the wolf team he's constructed (im also acknowledging here that we accept that not all wolf reads form a 'wolf team' as we fabricate reads but i dont care for the purpose of this read because _actual team makeup_ isn't really relevant to my point)

the part about him conflating zack/visor and gemma/blade was just weird, particularly how he didn't actually sort out who in those pairs made ths posts he was thinking about but yet he was still wolf/villa reading them prior to deconflating them - i just.. what



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line break so i can save my last post and not have to vote logic in that one

i'm definitely not waking up to participate in eod but i'll prob set an alarm to see how we did. glgl all

Vote: logic