17er Saints and Martyrs

[ladd]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

[nebjiamn]

is there maj?

[nebjiamn]

Id be pretty surprised if visor isnt a wolf

He pretended to care about mine and rask's reads on syn but he never really truly evaluated syn i feel

He asked me and rask to elaborate on why syn was wolfy for us, when we both already explained it in a way that AT LEAST it should have got him interested in checking what was up with syn instead he didnt really care, idk its a bit unfair i guess but id be surprised if as a villager he just writes syn off like that considering he like us played most org games

The murska push was sooo lazy coming from him imo

Idek why he pushed murska, among low posters murska was def 1 of the better ones

:wolfnodding:

[nebjiamn]

no but I dont really have reasons he's a wolf either. Just that he could be one. Where i have reasons I think logic +/- GH could be wolves

besides logic not going over yesterday can you go over why you've flip flopped on GH here (unless i'm misunderstanding you)

[ladd]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

[Totally not Taffy]

is there maj?

Yes but only after every living player has posted.

[nebjiamn]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

for gh its not for the vote, i just kinda thinkeod plays out differently (though hard to say because eod definitely played out differently than normal b ecause of the time vs the normal game i'm in)

you are probly right re: ender though

[Logic]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

[Hally]

why the two of them always?

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

[dyachei]

Logic I have never been in a game where gh was wrong about your alignment. Maybe it's happened in other games but I'm not omniscient

[Logic]

And one more thing; if town is dead-set on eliminating me, make it at least one day before LYLO.

[dyachei]

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

Fair thanks for explaining. I was wondering where the connection was.

Visor or logic first

[Jan]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

I thought enders case on me yesterday almost always comes from a villager.

He had a certain expectation towards my play and my interactions with gemma and when he didn't see what he expected he thought it to be scummy.
His baseline is wrong, but I don't think as a wolf he can project all of that based on a single game we shared.

Villagery mindset or something like that.

[nebjiamn]

Thinking I had a somewhat unique take on visor wolf, only to see it's been mentioned a bunch already in the gap I hadn't read.

Let me elaborate on dya while I'm here before someone beats me to it: specifically regarding her read on me and GH makes me think I'm seeing perspective slips, not a reevaluation.

Vote: Dya

I will vote visor as well. People that have scammed with me know that I don't bus except by accident or permission.

what unique take did you have on visor? the only take i remember is you 'conflating him with zack' and he isn't in your previous reads list

[Hally]

Idt ender should be clear off syn

Gh getting credit for his vote on syn is also silly


Not saying they are not villagers, just dont agree with the reasoning eheh

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

[nebjiamn]

i mean it’s basically what you said, i don’t think the game makes sense if they’re both villas?

that would mean everyone who thought logic was wolfy yesterday are villagers who were wrong on v!logic and wolves didn’t try to take advantage of it when he was sitting right there as a counterwagon to syn (ig benneh could also be the wolf in this world but i’m sponging zack/ladd that he’s not)

it’s also just PoE though, like who are the wolves if they’re both villagers? it gets pretty wonky i think

and just off posting, i mean logic still just seems like a wolf lol

visor i’m not sure has posted wolfy, it’s more like a negative space thing. imo v!visor is usually more memorable or impactful than he’s been here and he’s missing some of the joie de vivre / leeroy energy he usually has. you don’t think so?


tbh i think it’s somewhat likely they’re w/w because in the quote from the v!logic game zack pulled logic was super strong on visor being someone who should never misread him and told people to nuke visor when he flipped town but this game visor wolf read him and i don’t think logic even acknowledged at all? he was hitting zack with sauce but afair completely ignored visor. and then closer to EoD when it was syn/logic wagons visor started pushing murska instead of just going for logic

disagree with the former half of the bolded

his push on murska and appeal to gh/zack was v wolfy. i think his interspersing of jokes felt wolfy and blendy. think his GH push was even kinda gross cause i couldn't even tell how serious that one was

i also agree with you on the negative space part though. he can be a wolfy villager sometimes but he generally makes up for it and he is missing that part here

[nebjiamn]

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

[Logic]

what unique take did you have on visor? the only take i remember is you 'conflating him with zack' and he isn't in your previous reads list

I posted in my doctor horrible readslist that Jan requested. Ctrl+F "moist"

[Jan]

agree

i think arctic actually looks better from his vote than them

Can you explain why?

I disagree and am curious why you think so.
(I don't think arctic is a wolf but I don't think his vote gives him any points either)

[Jan]

I posted in my doctor horrible readslist that Jan requested. Ctrl+F "moist"

I watched dr horrible earlier today and thought it is a fun little experiment you might enjoy. :P

[Logic]

I watched dr horrible earlier today and thought it is a fun little experiment you might enjoy. :P

I watch that probably once every 3 months. The soundtrack is perpetually in my wife's default playlist (showtunes+Beatles+Billy Joel+Queen+David Bowie)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Visor has directly appealed to me before to push the vote to his preference at/near EOD as a villa, even when the person I was pushing was a wolf and his preference ended up being town

(second staffgame on MU is the game in question for this, d1 iirc. this would have been July/August(?) 2019)

to a less relevant extent, he's also done it in a mash or two but I don't have specifics on this

this point of information is what's giving me pause from going more full-in on him, knowing it's in his wheelhouse (and to be wrong as well )

however, one major difference is the I guess desperation in which he made his appeal from the staffgame compared to this game, but again I'm not sure how valid it is considering the last one was like right on the bounds of EOD proper and this one was a few hours out (and also in a postcapped game)

tl;dr I'm hedging all over the place

[nebjiamn]

gemma's a big blindspot and just posting to see if anyone has thoughts there.

i do not at this time and would prefer to go into a reread with some context from others tbh lol

[Hally]

arctic looks rough imo

not enough i wana push him today but his eod feels a bit informed

nah i don’t think he plays it like that as wolf unless logic is one too

caveat that i haven’t actually seen him wolf in a normal game but from how he wolfs in turbos + how i’ve heard him/people who know him talk about his wolf game, he’s a firm believer in bussing being dumb and goes hard powerwolfing so i think w!him would find some reason to either vote logic or at least not vote syn. obv syn was super bussable but i don’t think arctic would really give a shit about that lol. once it became clear it was gonna be syn vs. logic as the wagons i think w!arctic would have made up some reason to push logic not just shrug off the suspicion on him

again ofc doesn’t apply if he is exactly w/w with logic which uh could definitely be the world we’re in lol but i wouldn’t lunch him outside that

[nebjiamn]

Visor has directly appealed to me before to push the vote to his preference at/near EOD as a villa, even when the person I was pushing was a wolf and his preference ended up being town

(second staffgame on MU is the game in question for this, d1 iirc. this would have been July/August(?) 2019)

to a less relevant extent, he's also done it in a mash or two but I don't have specifics on this

this point of information is what's giving me pause from going more full-in on him, knowing it's in his wheelhouse (and to be wrong as well )

however, one major difference is the I guess desperation in which he made his appeal from the staffgame compared to this game, but again I'm not sure how valid it is considering the last one was like right on the bounds of EOD proper and this one was a few hours out (and also in a postcapped game)

tl;dr I'm hedging all over the place

i have no doubt thats true. its not really the appeal thats wolfy to me its just... idk, gut. murska even though a light poster did not seem like an interesting vote (nor wolfy imo) at all yesterday and i just dont buy that's the type of read he felt compelled to call out to others on. prior to the pr claim it was definitely a bit of a low accountability kill too.

and in contrast to last game here where he and dya pushed on baud d1 instead of going for the vote on a low poster who had wolf equity in a very villagery game he never really considered it (i dont think, i could be misremembering). it just doesn't strike me as on brand for a passionate visor wolf read unless he's got some agenda in the background

[Logic]

nah i don’t think he plays it like that as wolf unless logic is one too

caveat that i haven’t actually seen him wolf in a normal game but from how he wolfs in turbos + how i’ve heard him/people who know him talk about his wolf game, he’s a firm believer in bussing being dumb and goes hard powerwolfing so i think w!him would find some reason to either vote logic or at least not vote syn. obv syn was super bussable but i don’t think arctic would really give a shit about that lol. once it became clear it was gonna be syn vs. logic as the wagons i think w!arctic would have made up some reason to push logic not just shrug off the suspicion on him

again ofc doesn’t apply if he is exactly w/w with logic which uh could definitely be the world we’re in lol but i wouldn’t lunch him outside that

I hesitate on town-reading arctic here because the one game I can remember playing with him where he was town he was far less agreeable and conciliatory than he is here. (I think I've already shared this nugget of info)

[Hally]

i have no doubt thats true. its not really the appeal thats wolfy to me its just... idk, gut. murska even though a light poster did not seem like an interesting vote (nor wolfy imo) at all yesterday and i just dont buy that's the type of read he felt compelled to call out to others on. prior to the pr claim it was definitely a bit of a low accountability kill too.

and in contrast to last game here where he and dya pushed on baud d1 instead of going for the vote on a low poster who had wolf equity in a very villagery game he never really considered it (i dont think, i could be misremembering). it just doesn't strike me as on brand for a passionate visor wolf read unless he's got some agenda in the background

yea i agree

visor is prob the scariest villager i’ve ever wolfed against cuz his wolf reads are so uncannily good and he doesn’t give af about getting caught up in consensus or just killing low posters and stuff so you can’t really predict what he’s gonna do imo

and his murska push is pretty weaksauce by that standard

[GeneralHankerchief]

idk

I think I'm just turning into a softie in my old age

I don't want to, like, accuse people and be WRONG about it unless I'm certain, because I know when I've been on the receiving end of it in the past it hasn't made me felt good and I don't want to perpetuate that feeling

so like, if I look at it objectively, yeah Visor doesn't look great because he's lacked that joie de vivre (I forget who brought that up earlier but I fully agree) and his pushes have felt limp to this point (Logic, which he dropped without explanation in order to go for Murska near EOD1, Murska himself)

but then, like, oh well what if he's just been super immersed in Elden Ring! video games are fun! more fun than mafia! what if he just wants to have a chill time and I'm contributing to him not wanting to join the thread by being part of the pending pile-on?

it's much less heartache to tell people they're wrong than to tell them they randed wolf

idk, I'm gonna munch on some things and then go back to putting off my Logic reread

[dyachei]

did I forget anyone?

V
murska
rask
Hally

light v
ben
jan
wisdom
ladd maybe

null
gh - depends on what happens with logic
ender
gemma
vanta

wolfy
arctic
logic
visor

[nebjiamn]

idk

I think I'm just turning into a softie in my old age

I don't want to, like, accuse people and be WRONG about it unless I'm certain, because I know when I've been on the receiving end of it in the past it hasn't made me felt good and I don't want to perpetuate that feeling

so like, if I look at it objectively, yeah Visor doesn't look great because he's lacked that joie de vivre (I forget who brought that up earlier but I fully agree) and his pushes have felt limp to this point (Logic, which he dropped without explanation in order to go for Murska near EOD1, Murska himself)

but then, like, oh well what if he's just been super immersed in Elden Ring! video games are fun! more fun than mafia! what if he just wants to have a chill time and I'm contributing to him not wanting to join the thread by being part of the pending pile-on?

it's much less heartache to tell people they're wrong than to tell them they randed wolf

idk, I'm gonna munch on some things and then go back to putting off my Logic reread

the good news is if we're wrong its all hally's fault and we can blame them