Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[nebjiamn]

I was really frustrated at having to claim yesterday bc I thought we were giving the wolves extra kp but since they apparently don't have it I am rather happy with the situation bc now we can crowdsource my targets

I was initially going to do the right thing and holster N1 and possibly N2 bc my early reads are crap but given that I thought I might die I targeted Arctic last night. Seeing that Sunbae's rolecard says nothing about anticlaim it is now likely that Arctic is a PR who reasonably thought I was lying, but to me he looked like a wolf who went "we don't have an ability named anti-claim, this is a lying VT" and figured he could get me over.

I still think given how Arctic played D1 that the latter might be the case but I'm not going to push it bc if and when my bombs go off, either Arctic dies and we'll know or he's the one Sunbae died protecting (bc my bomb would've been redirected onto Sunbae and died with him) in which case he's town.

So we can solve around Arctic for the time being.

Taffy (2)

someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

[nebjiamn]

someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

[Maple]

[/B]
everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

Bg is dead so it's likely use it or lose it

However 1x kp puts us on Evens, effectively turning a vote into a sleep and a dead arctic

From taffy pov igniting is optimal tonight, most lokely

[annika]

@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

[Maple]

hmm
my thoughts on this: I think Arctic is very likely town personally. and igniting doesn't really save us a kill, unless wolves have KP/town has more KP, because it goes to even numbers and we'd need to vote Sleep like Maple said

however, I do understand that Arctic might be voted later. so I propose treating it like another elimination; if people want Arctic to get ignited because they think he's mafia, not because it's optimal, then they should say that

cus again, idt it's optimal if it goes to even numbers. it doesn't give or lose an elimination unless there's more PR stuff to worry about
@Maple how is it optimal from Taffy's PoV?

Taffy is town kp role. She wolf reads arctic and believes it'll plausibly flip wolf. From that PoV it is better to more efficiently use the ignite because the role will not get further value.

It's effectively a situation of "taffy poisoned artic last night, but also holds a heal"

And you generally just let poisons kill when made by q villager, specifically due to kill effeciency reasons.

All that said, it really is something you can go either way on.

[Arctic]

Bg is dead so it's likely use it or lose it

However 1x kp puts us on Evens, effectively turning a vote into a sleep and a dead arctic

From taffy pov igniting is optimal tonight, most lokely

You recognize that a town protective is dead so we aren't getting a ML back and thus killing me is effectively the same as voting me out and yet you think I am a villager and you are still advocating for her to kill me

We can probably put this guy in the bin too

--

For the same reason, but taking the opposite stance, I think ladd is town now, regardless of what Taffy is. I'm not considering him anymore

[Maple]

You recognize that a town protective is dead so we aren't getting a ML back and thus killing me is effectively the same as voting me out and yet you think I am a villager and you are still advocating for her to kill me

We can probably put this guy in the bin too

--

For the same reason, but taking the opposite stance, I think ladd is town now, regardless of what Taffy is. I'm not considering him anymore

lol

[waza]

vote:visor

[annika]

that might actually not matter if Taffy's bombs going off is mandatory though (this kinda feels like it might be the case based on how it's a bomber rather than an arso)

in which case rip Arcy

if that's how it works @Totally not Taffy I'd bomb Maple :3
if you don't wanna since you still TR her, hmm. it might be worth just killing the counterwagon?

that kinda sucks though lol because I do think all the people that will be counterwagons today like Ladd/waza are v. I mean personally I pref Maple so that's my vote, if youre taking votes (I might change my mind today in which case I'll ping you w/ it, but this is just what I'm thinking atm)

[Maple]

WOW she hates me sob

[ladd]

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun

[nebjiamn]

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun

yea its odd. also calling it a flavor claim specifically? i agree it should be self resolving--but back to my point a few posts ago, is there a chance gemma runs the rask role with a wolf arsonist/bombplanter?

honestly I think that's something I might do in a game and gemma's roles are pretty non-standard + theres precedent of the inclusion of misleading roles/counter-roles

[EnderWiggin]

Completely random thought - ender sounds like someone id enjoy drinking beer(s) with



I wouldnt kill arctic

I am still confused by some taffy stuff (why soft pr in your first post if u think/know there is anticlaim, why even soft pr as a pr) but their claim should just be clearing/self resolving i think


Visor/lissa is a fun team thats prolly not real...but would be fun

I am not even sure how you got to that thought but maybe. I tend to hate regular beer in a very unaustralian fashion though. I'm a cider person.

[EnderWiggin]

[/B]
everyone should comment on this, not just taffy

I think they should. Doesn't feel like that much of a debate or discussion so much as an obvious route.

But I'm also classically not good with PRs so shrug.

[Arctic]

someone else prob mentioned it but i think its reasonable that the town arsonist would get some sort of message about there being a counter to their night action given rask's role


but i also think its probably worth noting that in previous gemma games on the org though (i think it was a gemma game?) there were roles in the game that alluded to the existence of others that some people found kind of game breaking because it allowed someone to claim a role that didnt exist but feasibly should have given a prior PR flip

so ya

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@Totally not Taffy arctic already claimed NOT a PR so I think there may be some value to just igniting even if i think arctic is town, kinda in the same way you wouldn't heal a villager's poison. imo we should talk about a bit more since you are unlikely to survive past today given you are KP (unlss wolves have an RB)

In a closed setup without a flipped protective, this isn't an unreasonable take. But in the context of this game I think that you arguing for Taffy to ignite me is pretty wolfy. We aren't getting a doc save this game, clearly, so we aren't getting any MLs back. For this reason, killing me doesn't gain a ML, it is basically no different from just voting me out today. And so you are basically advocating that we waste a ML on me, someone you think is town.

I am kinda coming around to you being a wolf if Taffy isn't. I think Visor was villagery today and your responses to him felt lawyery

[nebjiamn]

In a closed setup without a flipped protective, this isn't an unreasonable take. But in the context of this game I think that you arguing for Taffy to ignite me is pretty wolfy. We aren't getting a doc save this game, clearly, so we aren't getting any MLs back. For this reason, killing me doesn't gain a ML, it is basically no different from just voting me out today. And so you are basically advocating that we waste a ML on me, someone you think is town.

I am kinda coming around to you being a wolf if Taffy isn't. I think Visor was villagery today and your responses to him felt lawyery

i don't think you understand mechanics at all, like even a little bit, so i won't engage with you on why killing you when you were claimed not-pr was potentially correct

anyway, you should explain why i'm ever playing eod the way i did while postcapped. not for me, but because I think if you reread eod with the knowledge that i didn't want you or taffy or sunbae or annika to die anymore, which is apparent in my votes IMO, i should literally be the most obvious villager in the game lol

[Arctic]

@Totally not Taffy can you claim whether you ignite when you die or if you are able to choose when to ignite

If it is the latter then do not ignite me, obviously. I can prevent you dying tonight if I don't get roleblocked, which can give you another douse

I hope you can clarify this sooner than before eod when people have used up all of their posts

And while I'm here, given my claim, I want other people to make it clear that Taffy should not ignite me if they have a choice and should be treated as outted if she does. Because wolf!Taffy using this role tailored to town and taking away 1 ML while just shrugging it off as an "oopsie well he was POE" anyway when my claim is resolving is the exact avenue she can take here as a wolf

[nebjiamn]

if there is a misclear of the somewhat universal TRs, i think it is in the dya/pzelda realm and not the annika/stetts. i don't know how much i think that's true, but i think its more true than the wolves being in like visor? maybe lissa? idk will think

thinking about waza's own eod vis a vis what i just said @ arcy, i would probably add him into the near locks too cause of the way he was unvoting to communicate. i initially weighted his vote on taffy more than those, but i think his answer was pretty good and i believe it so i think his actions leading up to the vote outweigh the vote itself

[nebjiamn]

tbc i think dya has been towny when available, but i think ladd oversells the post about sunbae they made.

dya is a killer who pockets and pushes friends like anyone else as wolf. i think ladd coming to the conclusion dya is town off that post but being sus of their initial posting is quite weird iyam. they were findable as town based off how they entered, not how they talked about sunbae after voting him

[Maple]

im highly tilted due to non-game stuff and its really affecting my wim rn

imagine i get a second wind later in the phase

looking at rask's role again, 3p arso seems entirely plausible itg, thats a lot of util to counter 1 role

[Arctic]

im highly tilted due to non-game stuff and its really affecting my wim rn

imagine i get a second wind later in the phase

looking at rask's role again, 3p arso seems entirely plausible itg, thats a lot of util to counter 1 role

Pat pat

Come back when you feel better. I want you to take a stance on who you think we should actually kill today, if possible

I am also off for now (probably to get high, but we shall see)

[Arctic]

i don't think you understand mechanics at all, like even a little bit, so i won't engage with you on why killing you when you were claimed not-pr was potentially correct

anyway, you should explain why i'm ever playing eod the way i did while postcapped. not for me, but because I think if you reread eod with the knowledge that i didn't want you or taffy or sunbae or annika to die anymore, which is apparent in my votes IMO, i should literally be the most obvious villager in the game lol

I don't see how what I am saying is wrong. I am open to seeing your perspective if you can explain to me what makes it optimal to kill me there, given that it is for all intents and purposes using up one of our MLs on someone you townread. But it's difficult to engage where I am jut being told I am wrong and can't understand why.

I am not super interested in what happened at EOD anymore. With an afk wolf being wagoned and neither me nor Taffy dying (regardless of what Taffy is), it is much more plausible to me that the wolves were townsiding in the latter part of the day. Either by defending the alternatives to Rask, voting Rask, or both. You cannot make a convincing case for anyone being mafia based on EOD except for Lissa (if Taffy is a wolf, but if she isn't, then ???) so clearing you based on this doesn't seem sound to me.

And with the dead weight cut after day 1, wolves are presumably not looking to lose another. And if they did in fact actively take part in killing Rask, they are explicitly looking to use that cred up, which is why you and Maple advocating for Taffy to kill me rang alarm bells. I'm not sure it's very likely both of you are wolves, however. So I'll have to think

[nebjiamn]

I don't see how what I am saying is wrong. I am open to seeing your perspective if you can explain to me what makes it optimal to kill me there, given that it is for all intents and purposes using up one of our MLs on someone you townread. But it's difficult to engage where I am jut being told I am wrong and can't understand why.

i feel like you have claimed the even night protective and you think that this was some revelatory insight that this role could exist

so the idea you are proposing that me and maple are wolfy for suggesting using town killing power is correct because a town protective flipped and we won't get a mislim back is wrong for those of us that are mechanically inclined and paying attention, ducy?

i won't even go into why this is correct from the point of view that taffy is a potentially confirmed town who has killing utility and you are (were) not lock clear at the time of those posts, so even if i am townleaning you, i cannot town clear you, and yes, even IF we didn't get a mislim back, that is still often correct because town used KP going to waste is... a waste.

i think your judgement here is biased and clouded by the fact that you are the other town protective and taffy's alleged douse. you act like i have been advocating for you to still be ignited since you re-claimed and i have not. you specifically claimed VT like 2 pages ago, or did you forget?

I am not super interested in what happened at EOD anymore. With an afk wolf being wagoned and neither me nor Taffy dying (regardless of what Taffy is), it is much more plausible to me that the wolves were townsiding in the latter part of the day. Either by defending the alternatives to Rask, voting Rask, or both. You cannot make a convincing case for anyone being mafia based on EOD except for Lissa (if Taffy is a wolf, but if she isn't, then ???) so clearing you based on this doesn't seem sound to me.

And with the dead weight cut after day 1, wolves are presumably not looking to lose another. And if they did in fact actively take part in killing Rask, they are explicitly looking to use that cred up, which is why you and Maple advocating for Taffy to kill me rang alarm bells. I'm not sure it's very likely both of you are wolves, however. So I'll have to think

i think its very likely a much simpler: the wolves were afk or pushing annika/taffy/you. its literally that simple.

rask was a wolf, he was afk
ladd fits as a wolf this game, he was afk
maple fits as a wolf this game, they were pushing annika
ender fits as a wolf this game, he was pushing you

i don't understand why you think the wolves had to be in the actives or the ones actually driving wagons. it is much more likely eod just plays out the way it did because towns were active and defending other towns before settling on a literal last minute cfd on rask that only a few of us could have possibly reacted to