Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[Visor]

i'm not assuming you should have me as town, i am well aware of my position

i am saying that you shouldn't be wolfreading me for this reasoning specifically which sounds made up

i stayed on taffy because the anticlaim suggestion sounded explicitly made up given the information i had, rask was just rand or maybe slightly worse because of the threadstate

i did save my last post to claim if i got cfd'ed but i didn't expect to be

anyway i have stated my suspicions, it does not appear that anyone is willing to engage me with them or give me any chance of surviving so i will likely stop posting. i can make a legacy if that would be useful but i think my reads will be discredited because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" so i'm not sure how much people would care

if there's something else that would be useful then let me know, otherwise i will postcap myself so i no longer feel an obligation to stay here

sup

i am interested in your thoughts

[Arctic]

I was re reading eod and afaict you were top wagon until :00 when rask got sniped and ender moved off you. Did you intend to claim or were u caught by surprise or wat? Feel like claiming and getting a 1-for- with taffy who u were convknced was a wolf would have been a good trafe off


Anyway ill do a re read of the game in 2-3 hours

rask overtook me at :59

deadline was :01 not :00

i would have tried to claim at :00 if i was still top wagon but i was happy risking it because my role isnt that important

sup

i am interested in your thoughts

why are you sure lissa is town? i don't think they were playing like a villager concerned that town was going to sleepwalk into the maple elim which is someone they were townreading

are you still wolfreading benneh or no?

i think the dya stuff is hard to like, willingly lock someone over so i can kinda get it but i haven't really found them wolfy regardless so i don't see much of a reason to go there

[Visor]

I am not sure Lissa is town

I am actually trending down there

[didistetter]

@pzelda can you describe what exactly about arctic's posting in the last 6 hours you townread? Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

The lissa and ben reads just don't feel grounded in how they've approached thread at all to me, and his focus and walling about "here's why we kill x instead of me" and then just shrugging off my question when I gave him an alternative to someone I thought did have a pluasibly wolfy reaction to his claim if he is V (you) was weak sauce.

So walk me through it, what exactly about this slush of franeticicsm can you "not help but like?" Especially considering: 983, 987, 1005, and 1007?

[Visor]

Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

Explain how this is Wolfy lol

Why wouldn't he do that as a village pr

[didistetter]

Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

Explain how this is Wolfy lol

Why wouldn't he do that as a village pr

becasuse as town PR he knows he's right, thread's wrong, and bad shit is happening.

Using that as a basis to solve gives you a lot of insight, but his posting doesn't at all sound to me like he's actually solving with knowledge he's town attempting to figure out who's pushing him. He made multiple posts arguing why 4 PR makes sense here b/c his role is weak, but he called manti probably fake and diff checked manti/benneh.

The solving around "benneh thought i was vanilla FPSing" and "lissa being performative" just didn't feel real at all to me. Espec with the insta pivot into "lissa uninformed" but back into lissa partnered with ben and then asking ben how lissa is ever uninformed. I've actually struggled a lot with what to make of benneh this game, and it's partially tone/style but none of this strikes me as real solving and the stuff he's vocalizing isn't any of the issue's I've had with ben. Obvi if he's PR that would mean he's probs focus on the claim stuff more, but I it doesn't sound like he's actually gone back through benneh's D1/today to reeval, just pushing what he can latch onto and sell.


a few hedges:

972 was probably the best post from his spiel

He said he would quit posting because people wouldn't care because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" but like... most people here absolutely *would* care about that pov, espec once their worldview is shooken up.

He also called himself confirmable tho which ig is technically true, but it reqs using the track on arctic to make sure 1. he visits you, 2. you don't die. In that world we don't mislunch a pr today tho, so it's worth considering.

[Arctic]

becasuse as town PR he knows he's right, thread's wrong, and bad shit is happening.

Using that as a basis to solve gives you a lot of insight, but his posting doesn't at all sound to me like he's actually solving with knowledge he's town attempting to figure out who's pushing him. He made multiple posts arguing why 4 PR makes sense here b/c his role is weak, but he called manti probably fake and diff checked manti/benneh.

The solving around "benneh thought i was vanilla FPSing" and "lissa being performative" just didn't feel real at all to me. Espec with the insta pivot into "lissa uninformed" but back into lissa partnered with ben and then asking ben how lissa is ever uninformed. I've actually struggled a lot with what to make of benneh this game, and it's partially tone/style but none of this strikes me as real solving and the stuff he's vocalizing isn't any of the issue's I've had with ben. Obvi if he's PR that would mean he's probs focus on the claim stuff more, but I it doesn't sound like he's actually gone back through benneh's D1/today to reeval, just pushing what he can latch onto and sell.


a few hedges:

972 was probably the best post from his spiel

He said he would quit posting because people wouldn't care because "he was a PR and biased about pushes on him" but like... most people here absolutely *would* care about that pov, espec once their worldview is shooken up.

He also called himself confirmable tho which ig is technically true, but it reqs using the track on arctic to make sure 1. he visits you, 2. you don't die. In that world we don't mislunch a pr today tho, so it's worth considering.

how have i not been solving who is pushing me in good faith / bad faith

that makes up at least half of my posts since i came back

it is in fact exactly what i am doing - with benneh, with lissa, with pzelda, with annika, with ladd

you can say it's bad if you want but i'm still trying lol

i am not inclined to believe people will care about my pov with how much my reads are being discredited with "you are biased" right in front of my face, evidently i am more capable of reading the room than you are of reading my posts

[Arctic]

@pzelda can you describe what exactly about arctic's posting in the last 6 hours you townread? Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

The lissa and ben reads just don't feel grounded in how they've approached thread at all to me, and his focus and walling about "here's why we kill x instead of me" and then just shrugging off my question when I gave him an alternative to someone I thought did have a pluasibly wolfy reaction to his claim if he is V (you) was weak sauce.

So walk me through it, what exactly about this slush of franeticicsm can you "not help but like?" Especially considering: 983, 987, 1005, and 1007?

i'm shrugging it off because i don't really think the guy is a wolf

it is obvious that i am not trying to kill anyone except myself because i have given two specific targets who no one else wants

what exactly do you expect me to do

my read on benneh is based on objective information and i don't townread his posts today

my read on lissa is more up to debate, but as far as i can tell it is true. she has not meaningfully suggested who a wolf is pre-benneh's post about me

[Visor]

I could see both of them as wolves

I think benneh has tried to overpower you today rather than come to the right answer

And I just feel like Lissa is approaching things like she just did in her recent game

Too many other things to weigh up though

But I can definitely see it

[pzelda]

@pzelda can you describe what exactly about arctic's posting in the last 6 hours you townread? Because frankly i think his posts are pretty goddamn wolfy and he's thrashing about like a desperate animal in a trap hoping to find something for people to latch onto and push instead of himself.

The lissa and ben reads just don't feel grounded in how they've approached thread at all to me, and his focus and walling about "here's why we kill x instead of me" and then just shrugging off my question when I gave him an alternative to someone I thought did have a pluasibly wolfy reaction to his claim if he is V (you) was weak sauce.

So walk me through it, what exactly about this slush of franeticicsm can you "not help but like?" Especially considering: 983, 987, 1005, and 1007?

The problem of playing the game while also doing something else is that I tend to forget details. So, let's focus on broader stokes. The first thing I liked is that Arctic came back and started fighting. And tbh his posts are quite contentful. If mafia, he's quite confident in his skill to sway us away.
I agree that his Lissa and Ben reads are a weak salsa. I was thinking about that while writing the previous lines and I hope I'm not creating a narrative here. For w!Arctic targeting Benneh or Lissa would be an obvious strategy here. Their death would mean a removal of a strong town player. It would be a win win for an evil Arctic. They would stay alive longer, remove a threat and get another chance to thrive.
If Arctic is V, I see some logic in pushing the people who push you.

Also, the bus driver is driving like crazy, honking his way through traffic.

[waza]

Ya my gut still tells me it’s not dya

So if Arctic flips wolf - we have a misclear
If Arctic flips town - we have more than a misclear lmao

Hoping for the latter since that sounds more fun

[waza]

If it is the latter maple friendo you should probs start working on your next fake claim from now lols

[didistetter]

@Visor bleh go ahead and track arctic pls
@Totally not Taffy idk who's good to douse but i truly truly dont think annika ever sells out a partner (afk or otherwise) to shield PR. She was scumreading arctic until eod then switched, that's not w/w for her. Please don't douse that. Selfishly a douse but not ignite on benneh might be fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine but also idk. I won't cry if you light up tonight but it would be a massive bummer to turn mountainous


Dunno lol minimum one wolf is playing rlly well. Would be swag if maple/dya could give more thots, but availability/investment can't be forced

@annika disloyal inventor is extremely possible. Do not lock clear maple for the claim. That would be like lock clearing wisdom for claiming 2-shot firefighter.

[ladd]

@Visor bleh go ahead and track arctic pls
@Totally not Taffy idk who's good to douse but i truly truly dont think annika ever sells out a partner (afk or otherwise) to shield PR. She was scumreading arctic until eod then switched, that's not w/w for her. Please don't douse that. Selfishly a douse but not ignite on benneh might be fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine but also idk. I won't cry if you light up tonight but it would be a massive bummer to turn mountainous


Dunno lol minimum one wolf is playing rlly well. Would be swag if maple/dya could give more thots, but availability/investment can't be forced

@annika disloyal inventor is extremely possible. Do not lock clear maple for the claim. That would be like lock clearing wisdom for claiming 2-shot firefighter.

why are we tracking arctic?

and ya second to not douse annika plz

[ladd]

the most solid thing i landed on is that ender/artic has exactly 1 wolf, the other depends a lot from who of those 2 is the wolf


but regardless prolly gonna be a pain in the ass to find

bbl to make a vote but its gonna be 1 of the above i think

[ladd]

random setup spec thought - rask role being an hard counter to taffy is a bit weird cause like if taffy is the only villa kp and they are being countered this hard its kinda useless? rask role basically means that realistically no wolves would die to bombs until that role is alive

[nebjiamn]

random setup spec thought - rask role being an hard counter to taffy is a bit weird cause like if taffy is the only villa kp and they are being countered this hard its kinda useless? rask role basically means that realistically no wolves would die to bombs until that role is alive

i mentioned this and kinda why i think it outs taffy as just 3p. the role if 3p sorta serves as gated KP for wolves while also offering some EV for town in certain situations, but not to the lengths that it makes sense as a town role?

either way taffy cannot be a wolf mechanically unless this game is some level of bastard so we don't really need to worry about it for now. if we can't kill wolves before taffy's wincon kicks in then we failed in other ways

---

audrey got her black belt btw! proud papa.

some random musings:

• idk why arctic thinks I have to think lissa looks uninformed for her overnight drunkposting only if I think he is flipping town? i truly can't make any sense of that
• i think waza's reaction to arctic being 'outed wolf' overnight is near lock clearing? volunteering as the elim for his 'abhorrent wolfsiding' fhpov so arctic can be ignited just doesn't seem like how a wolf reacts to the news, whether its real or fake?
• i thought of some other posts dya made earlier yesterday and i'm more conflicted on them again. the way they reaffirmed how lissa was reading ladd rang really true to me and a classic v!dya read/thought. and overall i think dya is in an odd position to be trying to push out miselims on the likes of sunbae/ladd while also being so absent all game, but without really being wolfy when they have time and are around?
• some mild caveats to the above bullet point: i do think the way dya didn't talk about ladd all day 1 and entered the d2 'relieved' about his posting after he found them around eod1 is still a bit wolfy. i think the later elaboration about how ladd was missing something is more in line with how i'd expect dya to read him, but the fact that the early sod2 read seemed so fickle, i can't really scratch that itch. and its weird in a way that i feel like gives ladd/dya equity as a team more than it does for them to be v/w with him.
• i know i made the point above but taffy's posts stink d2 lol. they had a post calling arctic outed wolf that just rings sorta overinflated for how they talik about arctic earlier in the post. and i don't really have any idea what other thoughts they have + their posting d1 about being more available d2 and wanting to mason with someone and it just really ending up in Taffy (15) while they should be basically 'clear' ftpov is just kinda meh
• i think visor's read on the game sucks. besides maybe where he's at on dya. if he's town he's ingesting all the bullshit that doesn't matter and ignoring the things that do IMHO
• yall should kill manti on day 4 when their claim still illcits nothing of value for town
• i've read eod again and i legit think its just all town on rask with a minor chance of a visor or lissa bus. i agree with stett that we very likely don't live in a 2-wolves-stacked world, but there's a chance one did
• i just think its way more likely between the postcap and actions around wagons that villagers were the ones causing chaos and it ended well. of the active players at eod, any number of them could have settled for v/v/v wagons and not put anything at risk. the opportunity cost just doesn't seem there to me unless a wolf was wagoned and in serious contention that wasn't rask
• if ender is a wolf the opportunity cost could be there for a team like ender/lissa i suppose but i'm struggling to see if for any team besides that? idk ill ruminate more

---

courtesy vote count and postcap checker

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 671 through 1053

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
5	Arctic	Totally not Taffy (15), EnderWiggin (21), nebjiamn (47), Lissa (26), pzelda (25)
1	Maple	waza (35)
1	SLEEP	Maple (28)
1	Lissa	Arctic (48)
1	dyachei	Visor (22)
4	Not Voting	ladd (32), didistetter (41), annika (25), dyachei (8)

[ladd]

Yea]dya coming in today thinking i could be a wolf for not getting ther eon them quick enough (i villa read them like maybe 10 posts in) is kinda ridicolous given how they are playing

But i just struggle so much with that post @ sunbae and thinking they made it as a wolf


vote:ender

Idk i'll feel bad if arctic is a wolf who slipped but i think ejder is less villagery and i think 1 of them is always a wolf

I dont expect this vote to change anything, but sorry if wrong anyway eheh

@titally not taffy plz do not douse annika

[didistetter]

why are we tracking arctic?

and ya second to not douse annika plz

im proposing not killing arctic, not having taffy kill arctic, and having visor track arctic so we can hard confirm him town.

if arctic IS a n2 redirect BG, then he can redirect all actions targetting visor to himself (shows as a visit to visor on a track) and we can just clear the kid instead of lunching a PR.

only problem would be if like mafia have a rb and slap it on arctic and kill visor/taffy which is possible so nvrmind lol

idk.

I kinda believe arctics posts ;-;

also like.... I'm not even really sure who could be wolf with him. he didn't need to claim pr today, and if he's a wolf claiming pr if he's like.... on a team with dya, seems useless to wolf wincon

he's clearly not with ender, taffy, or benneh
he's not with annika imo
maple had one sassy post towards him eod that felt sorta unpaired

and i dont really see how arctic PR claiming here, espec after the vanilla claim, is helpful to wincon.

IG the one point is like: he claimed PR after taffy said she had a douse on him, so could be a strat to just ensure a mislunch before taffy lights him up

but who's the other in that world?

i feel like im simultaneously overcooking and undercooking idfk

[Visor]

Maybe we should kill benneh or Lissa

[dyachei]

Maybe we should kill benneh or Lissa

I'd prefer lissa to Ben but I still think both of them are villagers

[Visor]

I'd prefer lissa to Ben but I still think both of them are villagers

Then you think it's what, maple and arctic?

[didistetter]

im too much of a pussy to kill ben while he's capped on d2.

If arccy is town, taffy dies, and benneh starts pushing a annika/ladd solve tomorrow ill yeet him into the sun D3 tho :3

plausible teams fmpov:
ender + 1 of dya/ladd/waza
benneh + pzelda
arctic + ???????? ladd??? idfk
maple + ladd/lissa/dya

guh

technically i think this should make me want to vote ladd

[annika]

I kinda believe arctics posts ;-;

lol yeah
at the very least if he's a wolf, he's done a good job making me doubt. there are a lot of little things he did that seemed town-ish like switch his vote from Ben to Lissa after our convo (where I said I was pretty sure it wasn't Ben but I was unsure on Lissa)

which is like pointless as a wolf because either way he's still dying, it just made me a hesitate a bit bc it seemed like he was still actively solving and really wanted to end on a wolf lmao

I don't. really know what to do about it tho. because I appreciate your plan to get Visor to track him but that requires the mafia to have no preventative measures. and like regardless of whether all the claims are real or not, I think wolves *prob* have something other than the bomb defuser

[didistetter]

i'm not going to scream if yall kill arctic but i'm not going to vote him b/c i think he's town.

Taffy pls pls pls pls pls do not douse annika regardless of arctic's flip. If he's v she's townsiding, and if he's w i think she pushes for maple harder d1.

I'm cooking dinner for mother's day so i won't be here bulk of eod but i'll try to pop in in case i really need to voteshift.

Vote: dyachei

[Totally not Taffy]

Tell me more about this, because if Arctic is indeed a wolf then Annika is 90% his buddy imo

Especially with her latest posts which are great insight in how his EoD1 is wolfy after telling me SoD2 how towny he is
She's not acting as embarrassed about her wrong Arctic read as I would expect her to

Vote: Arctic

bc it's mechanically optimal to deny an outed wolf another night action especially one who's trying this hard to get it

Taffy (10)

Stett you are definitely overcooking

Taffy (19)

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 1107

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
6	Arctic	EnderWiggin (21), Lissa (28), Totally not Taffy (18), dyachei (13), nebjiamn (49), pzelda (31)
2	dyachei	Visor (26), didistetter (44)
1	EnderWiggin	waza (45)
1	Lissa	Arctic (48)
1	ladd	Maple (36)
2	Not Voting	annika (29), ladd (39)

[Maple]

arctic also capping about the hwole " i was saving a post to claim" shit

everyone knows if you claim in the last 2 minutes of day you get policy killed you have to claim 1-2h before EoD cmon bruh