Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia

[Lissa]

alright

i need to reread shit again, really, but my current thoughts rereading yesterday and reflecting on things said there, things brought up today, and the rest of the game are basically this

sunbae very much appears to have been actually trying to solve the game yesterday, a lot of his lines of thought seem like he is solving from an uninformed pov (the in depth tinfoil on me for example), the emotional cadence so to speak of him thinking he has found things is villagery. frankly, that question ladd and i both freaked out at was probably actually villagery at that point - i don't imagine wolf!sunbae would actually have thought that was going to be meaningfully effective there, it was clear in my posts and my mindset and also like the reason he asked the question just feels real lmao. and me and ladd would be a crazy theory to make up on the spot there

i'm somewhat skeptical that: "who is sunbae paired with" and yet "ladd/visor can definitely be paired" were said in basically the same breath by ender. the mindset seems mismatched

it's a bit hard to really get a full picture of ender's worldview yday but his last content dense post before the vote felt like it was written from the conclusion / for the conclusion not the other way around, like they were working backwards from it (ik they did lose and have to rewrite it which could explain to some extent but still)

god i just got a hit of sleepiness. i stayed up too long the night/day i have to wake up really ""early" and usually get like max 5 hours of sleep and gave up and decided to just not. but i might need a nap

i think sunbae hard committing to ladd v was pretty villagery

bombs poison not kill outright btw. so the jan parting gift was definitely given to a person (probably cape to prevent bullshit

visors play around ender was pretty weird - when i think about it, he poked at ender a fair bit weirdly earliy and then sorta openly just tabled him for no reason. its notable to me in general that i don't remember him having really pushed ender, one of the thoeretically most ml able people itgh

as an aside, i feel a lot better In General about making a decision today after getting there yesterday. correctly managing to pivot out of that pretty deep pocket and hard flip my read and (well not technically voting there, but forcing the wolf to do so, effectively) was very satisfying, honestly. rereading the moment where it kinda clicked and i started really committing to the pivot is really cool. ladd goat

anyway, i'm maybe around (might doze off), though i certainly will be taking anything said today with a PRETTY large grain of salt cause yes, the answer is in the rest of the game.

[EnderWiggin]

Awake and honestly unsurprised. I'll do my best to help but ngl this is not the most unusual circumstance for me. =P

One day I'll work out how to be villagery without spam-posting every thought I have into thread.

[Sunbae]

i think sunbae hard committing to ladd v was pretty villagery

I think if you go back to start of day 3 and read where I started at before rereading and then where I ended up on Ladd it makes it crystal clear how I reached that conclusion. We had just gotten Jan W, Cape v, and Waza v flips so when I started at Maple/Ladd before rereading and then seeing him vote Jan as a double voter immediately, vote Jan day 2, and defend both cape and waza to people during his ISO I realized he was playing massively pro villa.

i think its just ladd and maple

visor, lissa seem pretty villa
rasks posts today are good
ender claimed the kill


forgive me if i do not wall today (tho i note that if its ladd and maple my conclusions were correct i just voted wrong!!!)

I am a bit skeptical after reading that Ladd has gone from "why isnt visor just a wolf" to trying to convince Visor im a wolf without having done a full catchup yet. But! I will say that with Ladds "why isnt visor just a wolf" and Raks being on Visors case for 2+ game days that I will go back and read Visor in isolation for my due diligence. I do suppose that if I say Im a sucker for people wolf reading their friends strongly and pointing to Visor doing so about Rask, then I really should look at it the same way when Rask is doing it too. I think it was just visors language being so direct ("mask off" post) that pulled me to that direction.

I hear that ladd. I will do a full reread today with an open mind. My hope is that most of the game are handshake.jgp because it's just been boxed out. You have ender shooting a wolf, lissa and visor pushing jan at eod2, hoping that maple is a wolf who isnt really posting much content which clearing rask from being a wolf if so, and then I'm left with you.


Now this isn't a lock which is why I'll reread later once I get more free time. I could see scenarios where ender is a wolf and either claimed the shot from Cape or had a wolf ploy to just actually kill Jan to go deep. I could see scenarios where Rask is a wolf and Maple isn't. I could see scenarios that Visor or Lissa voted Jan with full intention of moving off.

It's just as of right now I think those scenarios are just less likely than "maple is a wolf and you're the least villagery remaining". Which, hey, I thought you were villagery d1 and then you were afk day 2 so maybe it's just an absence thing and I'll realize my mistake if so as you post more.

What I'm going to do is reread the thread with the following possibilities in mind:

- Does the thread made sense if the wolves are something like Ender/Visor/Jan. This would be ultra hard world.
- Does the thread make sense if the wolves are something like Visor/Lissa/Jan. Also a difficult world.

Both of those worlds would have me turned around on day 2 pretty bad thanks to a visor misclear but I do want to touch on them because I now know Waza was a villager who was clearing Rask hard (even going so far as to say I am wolfy for not having Rask clear but having Visor clear) and Rask has been mostly pushing Visor for days. So due diligence on the hard worlds are going to be helpful.

Once I knock those out I'll have a better idea of where to go from there. I am hoping the answer is Maple/Jan/x but we'll see

d1/d2 recap of things i found noteworthy for each player during reread (raw data, no conclusion yet)

Rask:
- "I made a note on Ladd, I'll reveal it later"
- says Jan needs more votes in passing
- votes me, everyones favorite villager
- votes lissa once visor does
- doesn't like enders vote on maple (again, defending maple just "lacking")
- unsure what to do with visor now, calls maple/lissa coordinated
- asks ladd why vote logic instead of maple
- votes visor
- questions vanta for their jan vote, says its out of nowhere
- pushes visor more wondering why he was pushing vanta and cape, says its too proactive for villa visor prior to eod
- begging people to vote visor at eod. ends with 3-2-2 logic visor maple. Logic flips v.
- starts d2 pushing visor
- says visor isnt trying to find peoples alignment, just pushing people waiting for a case to take off
- but does like the callout of jan
- says if visor villa we need to look into maple/lissa/jan then votes lissa
- hates to admit it but visor might be villa, lissa still has wolf equity as does maple, likes ender, wishy washy on me, waza/ladd town
- has ladd villa based on d1

Ladd:
- becomes double voter, votes Jan
- waza comments that his nonchalance when voting Jan is wolfy as there would be pressure there to be right (also a too much lmao read)
- calls visor wolfy, says theres no reason cape cant just be a wolf pushing a villager or a villager with a right read
- says he thought ender was fine then reread the posts and wow they are so wolfy
- says is ok with jan, visor, cape, vanta, waza, me, rask
- now thinks visor is a wolf
- thinks lissa is villa, doesnt wanna lunch cape because he thinks waza is villa and waza likes cape villa, changed his mind again on ender and likes the recent posts about maple, calls jan v because i called jan v, has visor wolfy still
- votes logic
- changes his mind on sheeping jan v and calls him in commentary mode
- disappointed in jans reentry
- confident in rask/cape/waza villa
- votes lissa, defends visor, calls rask/visor v/v but also doesnt know if that works. says one concern is visor/maple being w/w cause the push feels w/w
- votes jan



Visor:
- Calls cape/vanta w/w with the idea that cape knows vanta is most common miskill and as a villager would wait and see whereas the early vote points to knowing they are gonna get pressured and getting on early.
- defends maple to ender (manti hasnt done anything alignment indicative)
- pushes back on my jan v read a smidge then asks me about ender and maple
- votes lissa
- votes maple
- starts day 2 pushing rask, #400 is the "mask off, painted the words IM A WOLF" post
- calls maple a wolf, then asks jan about vanta dying given vanta was wolf reading jan
- is confused about ladds take on ender and flip flopping
- says maple is in their slanking wolf game, d2 for jan is looking worse because theres nothing against thread position. like he's worried about who to push instead of just pushing wolf reads
- votes maple with a cmon do something
- likes lissa voting jan (more stick your neck out than her normal wolf game)
- votes jan after lissa extensive casing of jan w
- questions ender voting lissa and where the jan read went
- calls waza/jan w/w
- votes waza
- votes jan
- votes waza


ender
- defends rask from waza but calls waza v for the read
- votes vanta, then changes course and votes maple
- calls jan wolfy for "this his down to end it with idk if wolfy" in comments about ender
- says cape, rask, me, waza likely has zero wolves. maybe vanta too.
- says jan feels wolfy, maple feels wolfy, slight red to visor, lissa is w/e
- reiterates that maples latching onto "capes omgus" is just hardcore aggro wolfing
- pushes back at jan and rask defending maple
- calls rask town
- starts day 2 reiterating rask town, votes visor, calls cape town too
- reiterates visor wolf using a previous game as evidence where visor was weirdly aggro towards him but then pulls it back after actually checking and pulling the quotes
- continues to call rask v and then calls lissa sus
- calls jan/maple feeling of being paired
- votes lissa after lissas extensive jan casing


lissa
- defends maple to ender with the same "hasnt done anything alignment indicative" reasoning as visor did earlier
- votes cape
- agreed with ladd that jan v, but disagrees on cape v and still thinks cape is a wolf
- agreed with ladd that jan is in commentary mode and is probably somewhat >rand wolf
- doesnt wanna kill cape anymore, maybe ender but meh not really
- votes logic
- not villa reading visor strongly anymore
- explains she didnt wanna killa maple eod1, "liked a couple of her posts"
- thinks rask/visor is v/v, thinks im a villager, thinks jan is a wolf and votes jan
- does a whole post quoting some jan posts saying she still thinks jans a wolf
- does it again
- does it a third time
- does it a fourth time
- has a conclusion post about jan wolf (564)
- has a followup about it with visor who agreed
- doesnt want to kill visor, thinks jan is actively wolfy
- votes waza?
- votes jan ("kill the wolfy player who is probably a wolf")
- votes waza
- doesnt wanna go maple



maple
- votes ender as an unabashed omgus
- cases cape as a w

jan interactions
- shades ender for their posts towards knights and their vote on maple but then says twtbaw
- supports lissa's pushing of cape (i read this as not aligned fwiw)
- votes lissa d2, has maple lissa as the two wolf reads
- says enders intro d1 is too convoluted to come from a wolf. the way he agreed with maple just to turn around within two heartbeats

Conclusions based on rereading:

1. Ladd is quite villagery. Becoming a double voter and immediately voting Jan, reasonable looking back and forths about players like visor and ender where see movement happening in his opinions based on posts that are happening, has good reasons to villa read villagers being pushed a bit such as defending cape because he thinks waza is a villager and waza thinks cape is a villager. Has a good shift on Jan from v (sponging me) to disagreeing and calling him in commentary mode after another spurt of Jan posting. Has every ability to just keep that V read and blame me for it but is calling out Jan instead. Votes Jan again. In order for Ladd to be a wolf he has to just be playing rather pro villa. Defending villagers and pushing wolves while doing so with fluid reads on people.

2. I have concerns about Ender who called out Jan and Maple as w/w but then once the eod 2 happens where Jan and Maple are wagons ends up voting Lissa (who has just cased Jan extensively). However, I do feel like their posts on Maple are pretty spot on ("hardcore aggro wolfing") and I think their sequence with Visor about calling him out for being wolfy for a similar aggression to him as a recent wolfgame and then backing off when he went and found it and noticed it was different is villagery. I just struggle to see where the lissa vote came in that context so hopefully he can help me out with that and I can be ok.

3. There were multiple instances of her defending Maple against pressure that stood out to me - notably the one that actively says she liked some of Maples posts rather than just the nai defense - and once she started going on Jan she didn't stop for a while only to last second swap to Waza because visor called Jan/Waza w/w??? So one of two things occurred here: 1.) Lissa started the bus on Jan once it was becoming apparent that his time was short (and knowing he was going to give the gun to someone and might be dead anyways) so did so thoroughly and convincing where she quoted multiple Jan posts and read them as the wolfiest interpretation possible. Like 5-6 posts about it in a shortish order and reiterating it with people. Then once another avenue opened up at eod she figured why not get waza if possible. or 2.) She correctly buried a wolf and then got cold feet at eod when he came in and claimed, then voted the other wagon that wasnt someone she was defending (maple).

I can see both of those possible. The thing is I can see her as a wolf with Maple (defending one while bussing the other), with Visor (working together to push it onto Waza), or with Ender (Jan returns and wolfchat concocts the "let ender shoot me" plan so they need Ender/Lissa to make sure Jan lives that night). I do find it odd that Jan is the only person she latches onto and really digs into their posts to reiterate their wolfiness yet backs off at eod.

This is a tough spot for me because she did spend time defending me that eod while cape/waza wanted to shade me. So I think I'm supposed to clear her for defending me/pushing jan but yeah idk. I'm keeping an open mind and I see a lot of lissa wolf avenues.


chewing on visor/rask stuff still so more to come there

god im either great at werewolf or dogshit at it but i wanna call ladd the villageriest person in the game after rereading ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I don't think it is an exaggeration to call this sequence the turning point for me figuring out the game. Everything I did late day 3 to day 4 - from clearing rask to villa reading you to finally getting there on visor - stemmed from this sequence. It's clear where I started, how I got to where I got to, and how it took me in different directions that the wolves were aiming for right there. And it's clear I stuck to my guns when push came to shove on Ladd vs Visor.

- Ladd voting Jan as a double voter

- Ladd voting Jan on day 2 and staying there

- Lad defending Cape and Waza