On the United Nations and the USA's role in foreign policy.

[Strike For The South]

Besides let the Euros force these countries to sign. America should be out of all this entanglement

You think europe can convince these countries alone, as you said these countrys are nothing if self interested, the developed world needs a united front if there is any hope to convince them to go along with it, if america does its own thing china will see no reason to listen to the euro's and will do its own thing like america...

If on the other hand pressure is brought to bear on china from america, euro's and other developed countrys they will be convinced to agree to these treaties because it will be in thier self interest...

China signs these things in name only. Not to mention I wouldn't mind pressuring China but we dont have to sign some fancy treaty to do that. America should control its own destiny.

[Koga No Goshi]

China signs these things in name only. Not to mention I wouldn't mind pressuring China but we dont have to sign some fancy treaty to do that. America should control its own destiny.

How is America deciding to, along with many other nations, decrease pollution, and then doing it... giving up control of its destiny?

Do you think Kyoto was "demanded" upon the U.S. by other nations?

[Strike For The South]

How is America deciding to, along with many other nations, decrease pollution, and then doing it... giving up control of its destiny?

Do you think Kyoto was "demanded" upon the U.S. by other nations?

No however signing these things only entangles us further. Look at the Georgia-Russia situation we end up looking like bumbling hypocrites. You are only looking at one issue. There is a larger idea behind this.

[Koga No Goshi]

No however signing these things only entangles us further. Look at the Georgia-Russia situation we end up looking like bumbling hypocrites. You are only looking at one issue. There is a larger idea behind this.

In Georgia-Russia we were bumbling hypocrites because right after "going off on our own, screw the U.N." and invading a sovereign nation, we try to create huge outcry and a propaganda win out of it.

You kinda de-footed your argument there. :(

[Strike For The South]

In Georgia-Russia we were bumbling hypocrites because right after "going off on our own, screw the U.N." and invading a sovereign nation, we try to create huge outcry and a propaganda win out of it.

You kinda de-footed your argument there. :(

No it supports my argument. We shouldnt give the UN any sort of recognition because all it does is hamstring us.

[Koga No Goshi]

No it supports my argument. We shouldnt give the UN any sort of recognition because all it does is hamstring us.

From doing what?

[Strike For The South]

From doing what?

whats best for American citizens. Nothing specific but rather the fact that is a very entangling organization.

[LittleGrizzly]

It would just be pointless individual countries going thier own way, america could have some of the best enviromental policys in the world and china and india would wipe them out in no time, besides do you want them to have an economic advantadge or would you rather the world pressured them into agreeing to international treaties to give us a level playing field...

Not to mention I wouldn't mind pressuring China but we dont have to sign some fancy treaty to do that.

well its one of the best ways to do it, treaties contain obligations which are damaging to squirm out of, if these countries are as self interested as you say (they are) then simple verbal promises are definetly not enough, things need to be down on paper with the least possible wiggle room...

Edit:

Look at the Georgia-Russia situation we end up looking like bumbling hypocrites. You are only looking at one issue. There is a larger idea behind this.

The simple answer is to be consistently on the right side of the argument, if you hold yourself to a higher moral standing all these self serving powers look even worse in comparison...

[Strike For The South]

It would just be pointless individual countries going thier own way, america could have some of the best enviromental policys in the world and china and india would wipe them out in no time, besides do you want them to have an economic advantadge or would you rather the world pressured them into agreeing to international treaties to give us a level playing field...

Not to mention I wouldn't mind pressuring China but we dont have to sign some fancy treaty to do that.

well its one of the best ways to do it, treaties contain obligations which are damaging to squirm out of, if these countries are as self interested as you say (they are) then simple verbal promises are definetly not enough, things need to be down on paper with the least possible wiggle room...

I dont think paper matter much either. Yall are harping on this one issue eventually China and India will come around and if they decide to do that great but we must look at the wider picture.

[Prince Cobra]

I dont think paper matter much either. Yall are harping on this one issue eventually China and India will come around and if they decide to do that great but we must look at the wider picture.

Well, it's like the nuclear weapons... if you do not sit on table China-USA to reduce these emissions world is going bad. No more, no less