13 year old Girl raped and than stoned for "adultary"

[LittleGrizzly]

OH MY GOD!!!!

The exact same people who were defending the german people are now generalising all muslims!!

Frag and PJ i mentioned this several times in the germany topic we had but i was suspiciously ignored!!!

The basic point goes like this...

Germany was an advanced country and the country elected hitler and carried out some of the most hateful racist policys the world has ever seen.....

so you would think frag or pj would be of the view that, theres something about being german or christian that made them so evil, like islam makes muslims evil...

But no!! muslims are evil because of islam but the german people were put in a bad place by other people (treaty of versailles ect.) didn't really now what was going on, weren't that much worse than the allies....

How can you be so obviously hypocritical!!!

1) Either muslims are evil because of islam and germans are evil because they're german or christian...

OR

2) Both are victims of extreme times, bad circumstances and wrongs done on them by others

personally i believe the 2nd statement is true of both, but you two seem to pick and choose between the options depending whether you are talking about muslims or not, can you point out how this isn't sheer bloody hypocriscy ?

I would point out as well that the german state was an advanced rich state (which picks apart your we have bad western muslims point)

Muslims are no better or worse than christians, in extreme times and circumstances both can do great evil, so christianity and muslims are the religion of violence...

and then carrying that statement on people from almost every religion and walk of life have done great evil when in bad circumstances.... so we are all inherently evil! no more or less evil than each other

But if you do want to make generalisations based off a minority, i would say that dutch is a nationality of evil which turns people into raving anti muslims..

[Fragony]

The exact same people who were defending the german people are now generalising all muslims!!

Frag and PJ i mentioned this several times in the germany topic we had but i was suspiciously ignored!!!

I am? Just pointing out the sexual inequality in muslim society's, am I making that up and is the situation of women comparable to their situation in the Netherlands? I don't think so. Ignoring that because for your worldview you need cultures to be equal, now that is hypocrite imho. I never use words like 'evil' and never said anything even remotily close to 'all', that is putting words in my mouth. There are problems, you can call pointing that out disrespectful but it isn't respect that gave us the renaissance but a lack of respect, respect is the enemy of progres.

Must have missed your point in German thread, didn't ignore it intentionally I'll have a look.

[PBI]

OH MY GOD!!!!

The exact same people who were defending the german people are now generalising all muslims!!

Frag and PJ i mentioned this several times in the germany topic we had but i was suspiciously ignored!!!

The basic point goes like this...

Germany was an advanced country and the country elected hitler and carried out some of the most hateful racist policys the world has ever seen.....

so you would think frag or pj would be of the view that, theres something about being german or christian that made them so evil, like islam makes muslims evil...

But no!! muslims are evil because of islam but the german people were put in a bad place by other people (treaty of versailles ect.) didn't really now what was going on, weren't that much worse than the allies....

How can you be so obviously hypocritical!!!

1) Either muslims are evil because of islam and germans are evil because they're german or christian...

OR

2) Both are victims of extreme times, bad circumstances and wrongs done on them by others

personally i believe the 2nd statement is true of both, but you two seem to pick and choose between the options depending whether you are talking about muslims or not, can you point out how this isn't sheer bloody hypocriscy ?

I would point out as well that the german state was an advanced rich state (which picks apart your we have bad western muslims point)

Muslims are no better or worse than christians, in extreme times and circumstances both can do great evil, so christianity and muslims are the religion of violence...

and then carrying that statement on people from almost every religion and walk of life have done great evil when in bad circumstances.... so we are all inherently evil! no more or less evil than each other

But if you do want to make generalisations based off a minority, i would say that dutch is a nationality of evil which turns people into raving anti muslims..

Yes, I thought this an interesting double standard too. So everything that happens in history is inevitable and no one could have done anything differently or is really to blame.

Except of course for multiculturalists who alone out of all of humanity ought to know better.

Regarding the story, it is a horrible incident but I'm afraid not a surprising one. Somalia is not a very nice place.

Ought we to take the actions of the LRA in Uganda as representative of all Christianity?

[LeftEyeNine]

Dear PJ, despair is for the stiff-minded. 'Cause when you get to see that your ideas are not matching the truth, you'd just make desperate attempts to bring the tidbits of truth out of it, eventually leading you to errors like the intention to ignore obvious examples or understanding your opposite party of the discussion the way you want.

This issue is a matter of pure evilness, where you use religion as a mass-domination method. Adolf Hitler used nationalism as a means of mass domination. Extremists use religion, there were even more massacres that had been done in the name of communism, USA way of democracy still convinced many that "they were liberating Iraq". The quality or the kind of the cover-up does not matter. There are masses and a certain group of people using different ideologies or dogmas in their advantage towards the control of that mass.

If some certain idology was to be blamed, others would be impossible to be used for mass-domination. Yet even democracy was used as a tool.

Briefly, if your mind is stiff enough, you'll crave to skip this obvious truth in despair.

I, on purpose, had given an example of atheism followed by the Catholic one, just to make sure that you wouldn't take it religiously or think that I'd push Christianism into that ring. Despite my attempt you did. Pointing out another error here, 'cause expecting a step forward seems to be failing.

Yes, Islam has a teaching that puts woman one step behind the man. However I simply dislike the way that this act of extreme vandalism is trying to be equalized with the sexual inequality. This is terror, some violence that does not come out of sexual inequality. The purely evil minds nurtured by a war-worn and extremely unstable environment yield such a disgusting crime. And when you cover it up as "in the name of Allah", everyone joins you, let alone reacting.

They made witch hunts in Europe by Medieval ages, didn't they? Please grab my point; when people have not much hope and wealth to sit, think and act responsibly they can be easily directed the way a "clever" one wants them to. It was not about Christianity, nationalism, communism, democracy or Islam. It's all about a mass control where head figures would like their mass to act like.

I never wish that one day your country gets so worn, torn and destabilized that I'd hear of such extreme actions.

Your society may not be doing it today but if it ever gets as bad as Somalia or any other African country is, you'll have thousands in the streets hunting Muslims. It WILL happen. You're even acting as the masterminds of such actions today.

Welcome to the human nature.

[Andres]

This issue is a matter of pure evilness, where you use religion as a mass-domination method. Adolf Hitler used nationalism as a means of mass domination. Extremists use religion, there were even more massacres that had been done in the name of communism, USA way of democracy still convinced many that "they were liberating Iraq". The quality or the kind of the cover-up does not matter. There are masses and a certain group of people using different ideologies or dogmas in their advantage towards the control of that mass.

If some certain idology was to be blamed, others would be impossible to be used for mass-domination. Yet even democracy was used as a tool.

Briefly, if your mind is stiff enough, you'll crave to skip this obvious truth in despair.

I, on purpose, had given an example of atheism followed by the Catholic one, just to make sure that you wouldn't take it religiously or think that I'd push Christianism into that ring. Despite my attempt you did. Pointing out another error here, 'cause expecting a step forward seems to be failing.

Yes, Islam has a teaching that puts woman one step behind the man. However I simply dislike the way that this act of extreme vandalism is trying to be equalized with the sexual inequality. This is terror, some violence that does not come out of sexual inequality. The purely evil minds nurtured by a war-worn and extremely unstable environment yield such a disgusting crime. And when you cover it up as "in the name of Allah", everyone joins you, let alone reacting.

They made witch hunts in Europe by Medieval ages, didn't they? Please grab my point; when people have not much hope and wealth to sit, think and act responsibly they can be easily directed the way a "clever" one wants them to. It was not about Christianity, nationalism, communism, democracy or Islam. It's all about a mass control where head figures would like their mass to act like.

I never wish that one day your country gets so worn, torn and destabilized that I'd hear of such extreme actions.

Your society may not be doing it today but if it ever gets as bad as Somalia or any other African country is, you'll have thousands in the streets hunting Muslims. It WILL happen. You're even acting as the masterminds of such actions today.

Welcome to the human nature.

Very interesting angle LEN

Your view on humanity is very negative but I'm afraid it's also correct.

Maybe it's not what you meant and please forgive me if I misunderstood your viewpoint, but it seems to me like your viewpoint gives the individuals who are part of the so-called masses an easy way out. It takes away the individual responsability, because it gives them an excuse: I was following the mass, I had no choice...

Sure, truly desperate people act different then us spoiled westerners, but there's also such a thing as humanity. The individual always has the choice not to follow the masses.

However, on the other hand, in all honesty, I have to admit that I have never been hungry and desperate so I can't predict how I would react if I were part of a desperate mass that's following some nutjobs.

Would I refuse to follow at the risk of getting stoned myself or would I follow out of fear or (misplaced and false) hope that it will get better if I do as I'm told?

I'm pretty sure that when I would stand there in the front row, ready with a stone in my hand and looking at the 13 year old girl, that I would know for sure that what's happening, is wrong.

But would I still throw the stone at the poor girl?

Sitting in my chair, on a desk, well fed, warm, happily married, owning a house and having some savings on the bank, no dictator or religious nutjobs, let alone a hysterical mass looking at me, I'd say: no, never.

Hungry and desperate, several members of my relatives and close friends killed, sick or dying on no hope for improvement within the next decade, with the eyes of the crazy nutjobs in power on me and a crazy mass consisting of individuals feeling the same as me surrounding me, a mass formed by alot of people who'd happily stone me to dead if only out of fear to be stoned themselves for disobeying the nutjobs in power...

Let's just say I hope I never come into a situation where I have to find out how I would react

[LittleGrizzly]

I am?

actually quite light on the muslim generalisation's in this topic, but if your claiming you don't generalise muslims ill go back through a few topics (i remember one in the global warming one, and in a variety of other threads, usually nothing to do with islam or muslims) but as for this topic i could only find this gem

No I think it's quite safe to attribute it to the muslim faith,

Like its quite safe to attribute nazism to christianity or being german ?

or how about equating being dutch with having sex with prostitutes and taking drugs ?

or are generalisations just rubbish in general and thats why we should avoid them

damn americans/christians love shooting up schools
damn irish/christians love blowing things up

Just pointing out the sexual inequality in muslim society's

Thats fine, i agree with you there infact, it is the fact you put this down to being muslim is annoying, almost all undeveloped countrys don't have equal rights for women, the fact that a backwards muslim country doesn't have equal rights is not really all that surprising, infact im sure in many western societys (when they were as backwards as somalia) had many cases where someone in power raped some girl with no power and then punished her when she came forward

is the situation of women comparable to their situation in the Netherlands? I don't think so.

the only mention of netherlands was in reference to the fact that thier all rabidly anti-muslim, because you are, i was making a generalisation which is obviously rubbish to prove my point, and no women are treated very differently in somalia to in netherlands... unsurprisingly...

Ignoring that because for your worldview you need cultures to be equal, now that is hypocrite imho.

I don't ignore any evidence, if asked whether developed christian nations have fairer and more equal laws than backward muslim nations, the answer is obvious

Now if you were to ask me for the reasons for the differences i wouldn't mention muslim or christian...

There are problems,

There are many problems in many muslim countries (and christian ones like uganda) but this is a result of undeveloped countries and ignorant populations, simply being a muslim does not automatically make one a rapist or a stoner of rape victims or a terrorist or anything else, to make your statements actually accurate talk of fundamentalist islam or extremist muslims rather than just use the word muslim....

What if netherlands had the worlds highest population of paedophiles, would you excuse me generalising all dutch people as paedophiles in every topic, or would you explain that its a tiny minority that do this and argue the point with me ?

I never use words like 'evil' and never said anything even remotily close to 'all', that is putting words in my mouth.

I took the evil as implied, and whenever you say muslims are.... you don't need to say all, by not saying some muslims, or not saying extremist muslims, you are infact generalising all muslims

going back to my earlier dutch paedophile example...

1) dutch people are paedophiles
2) some dutch people are paedophiles

you see the huge difference in those sentences ?

but it isn't respect that gave us the renaissance but a lack of respect, respect is the enemy of progres.

Yes but the enlightenment came from within our own culture, if we attack thier culture we are just likely to encourage more feverent support for it...

Must have missed your point in German thread, didn't ignore it intentionally I'll have a look.

ok fair enough...

[Fragony]

actually quite light on the muslim generalisation's in this topic, but if your claiming you don't generalise muslims ill go back through a few topics (i remember one in the global warming one, and in a variety of other threads, usually nothing to do with islam or muslims) but as for this topic i could only find this gem

Of course I make generalitsations, when you talk about a culture it's impossible not to make them.

Like its quite safe to attribute nazism to christianity or being german ?

Christianity possibly, saviours and all that.

the only mention of netherlands was in reference to the fact that thier all rabidly anti-muslim, because you are, i was making a generalisation which is obviously rubbish to prove my point, and no women are treated very differently in somalia to in netherlands... unsurprisingly...

Of course I could point out that, ah scratch that never worked never will.

Now if you were to ask me for the reasons for the differences i wouldn't mention muslim or christian...

Then you would be looking away from how our cultures developed.

There are problems,

simply being a muslim does not automatically make one a rapist or a stoner of rape victims or a terrorist or anything else

Never said it did, you said I said it, which I didn't.

I took the evil as implied, and whenever you say muslims are.... you don't need to say all, by not saying some muslims, or not saying extremist muslims, you are infact generalising all muslims

That's what you make of it, something with eye and beholder.

going back to my earlier dutch paedophile example...

1) dutch people are paedophiles
2) some dutch people are paedophiles

you see the huge difference in those sentences ?

A massive difference, good think I never use the word 'all', saves confusion.


You are discussing with the perception you have of me, not with my arguments, you insist on proving that I am a muslim hating neo-nanny. Remove the 'all' and there is nothing left. Why so defensive?