The Final US Election Thread

[Don Corleone]

A good article by George Wallace's daughter:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/...ama/index.html

I'm not certain I understand the rant by Peggy Wallace Kennedy, or your intention in posting it. That people that disagree with the Democratic Party platform are the bigoted cultural heirs of George Wallace?

And now a new call to arms has sounded as Americans face another assault on freedom. For if the stand in the schoolhouse door was a defining moment for George Wallace, then surely the aftermath of Katrina and the invasion of Iraq will be the same for George W. Bush.

The trampling of individual freedoms and his blatant contempt for the rights of the average American may not have been as obvious as an ax-handle-wielding governor, but Bush's insidiousness and piety have made him much more dangerous.

[TinCow]

I'm not certain I understand the rant by Peggy Wallace Kennedy, or your intention in posting it. That people that disagree with the Democratic Party platform are the bigoted cultural heirs of George Wallace?

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters. I am not quite sure why you are offended by it it being posted.

[Don Corleone]

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters. I am not quite sure why you are offended by it it being posted.

I guess I'd like to hear from you why you think the Republican party under George W. Bush has been segregationist? The author is making a direct comparison between her father (before he sang Kumbaya and reformed himself) and Geroge W. Bush in 2008 in the particular, and by extension the GOP in 2008 at large. You appear to be applauding her comparison. I'd like to hear some justification for that.

[CountArach]

It's also interesting that everyone is calling for unity behind the President, when Bush didn't get unity in 2000 until a major U.S. disaster?

The situation now is different to what it was in 2000. There is a financial disaster and two wars. Bush did not face those same obstacles.

[Koga No Goshi]

It's also interesting that everyone is calling for unity behind the President, when Bush didn't get unity in 2000 until a major U.S. disaster?

What CA said, and, 2000 was a very hotly contested election which was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, not the voters. And yet Al Gore called for people to support the decision. The circumstances were very different, there is no real question about legitimacy about last night's end result.

[Strike For The South]

I was 10 in 2000.

[Koga No Goshi]

I was 10 in 2000.

*Pats Strike and gives him a Power Ranger doll* Hehe

[Seamus Fermanagh]

What CA said, and, 2000 was a very hotly contested election which was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court, not the voters. And yet Al Gore called for people to support the decision. The circumstances were very different, there is no real question about legitimacy about last night's end result.

Koga:

You're smarter than that. The Supremes decided that is was inappropriate to recount part of, but not all of, the Florida vote. Given our knowledge of how certain locales break for certain candidates, it is NOT unreasonable to suggest that ANY partial recount is a form of favoritism.

Gore lost in 2k because: 1) 90k Floridians were deranged enough to throw away their votes on the Green Party because GORE wasn't being eco-centric enough when 2k of those 90k in Gore's column would have ended the Bush presidencey before it began, & 2) Gore couldn't win his home state.

Subsequently, several recounts were conducted, sponsored by newspapers who had endorsed Gore, and none of these "recounts" altered the results.


Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.


Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

[Koga No Goshi]

Koga:

You're smarter than that. The Supremes decided that is was inappropriate to recount part of, but not all of, the Florida vote. Given our knowledge of how certain locales break for certain candidates, it is NOT unreasonable to suggest that ANY partial recount is a form of favoritism.

Gore lost in 2k because: 1) 90k Floridians were deranged enough to throw away their votes on the Green Party because GORE wasn't being eco-centric enough when 2k of those 90k in Gore's column would have ended the Bush presidencey before it began, & 2) Gore couldn't win his home state.

Subsequently, several recounts were conducted, sponsored by newspapers who had endorsed Gore, and none of these "recounts" altered the results.


Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.


Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

None of this was relevant to people staying up late at night on Nov 4 2000, Seamus. All that stuff was established record long afterwards. On the night in question everyone was up saying that the count looked like it was going to Gore and that it was later stopped. There was a lot of confusion and frustration and pretending like no one had any reasonable cause to feel bitter after 2000 is revisionism. It is absolutely no comparison whatsoever to last night, and it's ridiculous for anyone to do so and expect credibility.

Decry the electoral college system that made the minority popular vote sufficient to elect Bush if you will. Decry what Bush did in office subsequently if you will. The voting results were correct.


Al Gore and Nixon both did the correct thing after narrow defeats.

None of this really changes what I said, Seamus. I said people were frustrated because the vote came down to one hotly contested state, and the recounting was stopped. If that wouldn't make voters feel aggravated, regardless of what the whole story looks like in retrospect, I don't know what would. Saying "it turns out the counts were correct" after the fact doesn't change how people felt when they were told that the recount was being stopped by order of the court, on procedural considerations the electorate in general neither knew about nor were fully informed about at the time.

[TinCow]

I guess I'd like to hear from you why you think the Republican party under George W. Bush has been segregationist? The author is making a direct comparison between her father (before he sang Kumbaya and reformed himself) and Geroge W. Bush in 2008 in the particular, and by extension the GOP in 2008 at large. You appear to be applauding her comparison. I'd like to hear some justification for that.

Did you even read that article? It makes no claims at all that Bush was segregationist. It compares the impact of Wallace's stance on segregation and the resulting national about-face to Bush's policies in handling issues like Iraq and domestic spying and the subsequent rejection of the Republican party in yesterday's election. There is nothing in there about Bush or the current Republicans being segregationists. It compares the turnabouts, not the issues which caused them.

[Don Corleone]

Did you even read that article? It makes no claims at all that Bush was segregationist. It compares the impact of Wallace's stance on segregation and the resulting national about-face to Bush's policies in handling issues like Iraq and domestic spying and the subsequent rejection of the Republican party in yesterday's election. There is nothing in there about Bush or the current Republicans being segregationists. It compares the turnabouts, not the issues which caused them.

Of course I read the article. Despite being a bigot and an anti-intellectual, I am literate. As for where the comparison to segreationist policies came from, I quoted where she drew a parallel earlier in the thread. Here's where you do the same:

I posted it because I thought it was interesting and well-written. I thought that under the current circumstances the opinion of the daughter of the last person to run a major Presidential campaign on a platform of segregation would be interesting to a few posters.

This can be taken one of two ways. 1) Wallace was the last segregationist as in the final one but you somehow see an association to the current administration or 2) was the last as in the most recent prior to the current. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant the first, but I still don't understand how the daughter of a segregationist comparing her father's campaign of hatred and terror against blacks comparing her father, who evolved past his sins to Bush who hasnt' (according to her) is relevant to a discussion on last night's results. I still don't know exactly what you're trying to say with the original post and how you found it enlightening that an Alabama Democrat party hack thinks Bush was worse than her race-baiting segregationist father. She at least can claim to be repairing her father's legacy. I am very curious about your motivations, about what exactly you were trying to say.

[Marshal Murat]

The Election *Bad Language*

The new American states.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Coleman won - thank goodness, how could people vote for Franken?

And there's been a lot more votes counted, and Darcy Burner is losing by a slightly larger margin (almost 2000 votes, up from 600 votes).

And a great piece by the Onion on what obsessive supporters do after he's won.

CR

[TinCow]

I still don't understand how the daughter of a segregationist comparing her father's campaign of hatred and terror against blacks comparing her father, who evolved past his sins to Bush who hasnt' (according to her) is relevant to a discussion on last night's results. I still don't know exactly what you're trying to say with the original post and how you found it enlightening that an Alabama Democrat party hack thinks Bush was worse than her race-baiting segregationist father. She at least can claim to be repairing her father's legacy. I am very curious about your motivations, about what exactly you were trying to say.

We just elected the first black President of the United States. I personally thought that her views on her own father were interesting under the circumstances because of the monumental important of the event in the history of civil rights. I was primarily concerned with the comments she made about her own father, which I found particularly interesting because I had no idea that his views had changed in later life. I found her comments on Bush to be entirely peripheral to what was really interesting about it. It was thus topical and interesting to me and thus I think I was more than justified in calling it a "good" article, which is all I did.

You are entirely incorrect that I was even trying to say anything at all. I was simply posting something that I found interesting. Surely that is understandable, is it not?

[Lemur]

For once I'm not gonna provide a link, 'cause that would just be wrong. BUt here you go, evidence that the Westboro Baptist Church hasn't gone away:

WBC to picket the funeral of Madelyn Payne Dunham, - pursuant to the picketing laws of Hawaii or Kansas or, etc., wherever burial occurs, - in religious protest and warning to the living; to wit:

"Prepare to meet thy God." Amos 4:11.

Yes. Dying time is truth time, and reflection time, and time for meditating on the weighty issues of life: getting right with God, life, death, Heaven, Hell, sin, righteousness, judgment to come, etc. Obama says his grandmother Dunham raised him, and, her "influence on his manner and the way he viewed the world was substantial." If so, then she has much to answer for as she stands before the Lord. Obama says he will use the White House as a Bully Pulpit to advance the cause of murdering more babies and same-sex marriage. "God hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by Christ." Acts 17:31.

[Don Corleone]

We just elected the first black President of the United States. I personally thought that her views on her own father were interesting under the circumstances because of the monumental important of the event in the history of civil rights. I was primarily concerned with the comments she made about her own father, which I found particularly interesting because I had no idea that his views had changed in later life. I found her comments on Bush to be entirely peripheral to what was really interesting about it. It was thus topical and interesting to me and thus I think I was more than justified in calling it a "good" article, which is all I did.

You are entirely incorrect that I was even trying to say anything at all. I was simply posting something that I found interesting. Surely that is understandable, is it not?

I see. So by posting a story in which George McGovern's daughter compares her father's race-baiting, abusive, bullying illegal reign as governor to George Bush's administration and finds her father superior and Bush wanting, you were really trying to lead us all in a chorus of Kumbaya. My mistake, how foolish of me, it's patently obvious now that you explain it to me.