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  1. #1
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Rights are Not Civil Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    First lets forget the fact that gays arent nearly subject to 1/100000000 of the prejudice that blacks were.
    I will give this topic more attention later Strike (to anyone who might have wondered I am buried at work at the moment) but I just had to throw out... this little comment was a big loser, Strike. When black people talk about the discrimination they experience, the same basic crowd who would respond with an attitude like "oh well how long has it been since slavery... name something serious in your lifetime, please" then turn around and say gay equality issues are a joke because they aren't 1/1000000000 as serious as the ones against blacks.

    So, you can't win.

    We are, thankfully, heading out of the era where every single black person has a story about a family member lynched, or shot by police, or losing or being refused a job they were qualified for, just because of prejudice. However, it is quite safe to say that a majority, if not all, of the presently living gay people in the U.S. have faced physical violence, the real and direct threat of such, the loss of a job, or had to conceal their sexuality in order to get, or keep, a job. So saying that gay people didn't come over on a slave ship is rather glib when a more realistic comparison would be, for example, the situation of many blacks in the 1960s where their equal legal rights either didn't fully exist or were widely unrecognized, and the situation of many gay people today where things like "Don't ask, don't tell" are still the law of the land, and discrimination against them is still, in many regards, absolutely legal and upheld. I honestly don't know why you or anyone else, especially someone who is not homophobic and not antagonistic to the concept of gay rights or equality, would feel the need to vehemently iterate that the legal and social problems facing gay people are in every way totally unanalagous to some of the history of civil rights for racial minorities. It comes off like a very desperate effort to insist that what discrimination does exist against gay people, is okay, because it "obviously isn't as bad" as what happened to blacks 150 or 300 years ago.
    Last edited by Koga No Goshi; 11-12-2008 at 05:23.
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  2. #2
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Rights are Not Civil Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi View Post
    I will give this topic more attention later Strike (to anyone who might have wondered I am buried at work at the moment) but I just had to throw out... this little comment was a big loser, Strike. When black people talk about the discrimination they experience, the same basic crowd who would respond with an attitude like "oh well how long has it been since slavery... name something serious in your lifetime, please" then turn around and say gay equality issues are a joke because they aren't 1/1000000000 as serious as the ones against blacks.

    So, you can't win.

    We are, thankfully, heading out of the era where every single black person has a story about a family member lynched, or shot by police, or losing or being refused a job they were qualified for, just because of prejudice. However, it is quite safe to say that a majority, if not all, of the presently living gay people in the U.S. have faced physical violence, the real and direct threat of such, the loss of a job, or had to conceal their sexuality in order to get, or keep, a job. So saying that gay people didn't come over on a slave ship is rather glib when a more realistic comparison would be, for example, the situation of many blacks in the 1960s where their equal legal rights either didn't fully exist or were widely unrecognized, and the situation of many gay people today where things like "Don't ask, don't tell" are still the law of the land, and discrimination against them is still, in many regards, absolutely legal and upheld. I honestly don't know why you or anyone else, especially someone who is not homophobic and not antagonistic to the concept of gay rights or equality, would feel the need to vehemently iterate that the legal and social problems facing gay people are in every way totally unanalagous to some of the history of civil rights for racial minorities. It comes off like a very desperate effort to insist that what discrimination does exist against gay people, is okay, because it "obviously isn't as bad" as what happened to blacks 150 or 300 years ago.
    Hate crimes agianst gays are only 1/5 of the amount when compared to race and still less than by religon. Does that make it right? Hell no but then we have a disconnect. I dont see gay rights as the next logical step in the civil rights movement, and to equate the two is insulting. Gay people today are allowed to have parades and they are celebrated in some circles. When blacks converged they were met with dogs and hoses and the whites who sympathized with them were often worse off.

    As someone who would like to see gays be on equal footing I suggest you drop this kind of mindsets because it will only put off the blacks and hispanics and we need there votes. Do you know why blacks come out so vehemently against gay marriage? Its because they are equated with the rights they fought so hard for.

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  3. #3
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gay Rights are Not Civil Rights

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    As someone who would like to see gays be on equal footing I suggest you drop this kind of mindsets because it will only put off the blacks and hispanics and we need there votes. Do you know why blacks come out so vehemently against gay marriage? Its because they are equated with the rights they fought so hard for.
    Hispanics barely voted in favour of the proposition. In fact the reason why Blacks came out in favour of Prop 8 is because they are far more religious than the average voter. However, that is not the primary reason why the vote failed. I'll let Nate Silver take the rest:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nate
    Furthermore, it would be premature to say that new Latino and black voters were responsible for Prop 8's passage. Latinos aged 18-29 (not strictly the same as 'new' voters, but the closest available proxy) voted against Prop 8 by a 59-41 margin. These figures are not available for young black voters, but it would surprise me if their votes weren't fairly close to the 50-50 mark.

    At the end of the day, Prop 8's passage was more a generational matter than a racial one. If nobody over the age of 65 had voted, Prop 8 would have failed by a point or two. It appears that the generational splits may be larger within minority communities than among whites, although the data on this is sketchy.
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