this makes me sad

[Hooahguy]

He's serious and he's not the only one who feels that way. I personally don't sing our national anthem for the same reason - I don't like what it represents. If something is a symbol and you don't like what that symbol represents, why would you continue to support that symbol?

At least I am fairly sure that is what HoreTore is on about.

i dont think its a symbol. its a matter of moral, IMO. even if you dont like the government or whatnot, give respect to those who gave up your lives for you.

[Jolt]

i cant tell if you're joking or being serious......

There is an ideology called Pacifism. Many people support it, and many people can't understand what that concept means. Ghandi did. I like him more because of that.

[CountArach]

i dont think its a symbol. its a matter of moral, IMO. even if you dont like the government or whatnot, give respect to those who gave up your lives for you.

On the other hand, what if my morality tells me that by fighting back against the Government which got this person killed I can save more lives? Surely that moral argument would trump any other moral argument about respect for the dead.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Armistice Day is very much an anti-war day for me. I don't remember the soldiers, I remember the madness that send them to their doom and the horrors of war.

Let us not forget that the US has a Veteran's Day at 11-11. (Continental) Europe has several local variants of Remembrance Days. The death, the destruction is remembered.
I could be grateful for the sacrifice of soldiers. But...one nation's remembrance of military sacrifice would be another nation's remembrance of destruction. Why should I be grateful for the killing of Germans? Me, I want to remember together with the others in a spirit of peace and 'never again'.

[HoreTore]

i dont think its a symbol. its a matter of moral, IMO. even if you dont like the government or whatnot, give respect to those who gave up your lives for you.

I see working to prevent the thing that killed them from killing more people as a very good way of showing respect for them.

"War would end if only the dead could speak."

Why not say what they are unable to say?

besides that, I'm relentlessly opposed to any notion of patriotism, nationalism or glorifying war. War is hell - noone deserves to be exposed to it.

Let us not forget that the US has a Veteran's Day at 11-11. (Continental) Europe has several local variants of Remembrance Days. The death, the destruction is remembered.
I could be grateful for the sacrifice of soldiers. But...one nation's remembrance of military sacrifice would be another nation's remembrance of destruction. Why should I be grateful for the killing of Germans? Me, I want to remember together with the others in a spirit of peace and 'never again'.

[Hooahguy]

the government didnt get them killed. our enemies killed them. they were thier because they wanted to be. if there was a draft, which there isnt, then you could say the government killed the unwilling folks. but they went over there on thier own decision to fight for us, and deserve that respect.

i personally look down on any anti-war protest on memorial days and at soldiers funerals.
on all other days i couldnt care less if they do that, but not on veterans/memorial days.

[Hooahguy]

besides that, I'm relentlessly opposed to any notion of patriotism, nationalism or glorifying war. War is hell - noone deserves to be exposed to it.

true, war is hell, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt remember those who died. remembering the fallen soldiers isnt glorifying war or in any such matter. no one is being "exposed" to war. you dont even have to see any pictures of the dead. just pay them respect, and that doesnt include, IMO, having anti-war rallies.

war is a very important thing to human nature. it will never end, no matter what. world peace is an unrealistic idea. while the cause is noble, do you really think some warlord in africa will put down his AK-47 for world peace?
get real.

[Strike For The South]

The wussafacation of America? I would like insecure men to stop running out on the kids and beating on there wives. I would also like them to grow a backbone. Thats the real problem these days.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Unless I missed something, network television went on like any other night - Dancing with the Stars, etc. etc.

Sad... no body cares really. I mean, after 9/11, people cared... for awhile. It seems now people just treat that like another tragedy and walk away like nothing happens.

Plus, you show respect for the people who defened your country... If you don't, maybe you should go and fight then?

[CountArach]

the government didnt get them killed. our enemies killed them. they were thier because they wanted to be. if there was a draft, which there isnt, then you could say the government killed the unwilling folks. but they went over there on thier own decision to fight for us, and deserve that respect.

Are you... are you... serious...? America is far more aggressive than almost any other nation out there... I don't see how it is your enemy's fault for defending their homeland when threatened.

i personally look down on any anti-war protest on memorial days and at soldiers funerals.
on all other days i couldnt care less if they do that, but not on veterans/memorial days.

Again, we are showing respect. We are not commenting on the personal actions of any one person - we are commenting on the actions of the machine which sent them there. This is our way of showing respect for the dead - we are preventing anyone else who is alive, and hence able to be saved, from having to go out and die.

war is a very important thing to human nature. it will never end, no matter what. world peace is an unrealistic idea. while the cause is noble, do you really think some warlord in africa will put down his AK-47 for world peace?

Well excuse me if I'm just trying to make the world a better place. Just because war is inevitable (Which I don't believe it is) doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it. If no one fights for an idea then we can never make progress towards that idea.

[KarlXII]

i stand corrected, i guess.

but why should you hold sonar tests in the atlantic when the subs which you want to test it on are in the pacific?
anyhow, they will be both harming sea life....

We have submarines in active service in the Atlantic Fleet, all able to be tested as well.

Oh, anyway, I always stuck with this quote:

"There cannot be democracy without dissent"

[KarlXII]

true, war is hell, but that doesnt mean we shouldnt remember those who died. remembering the fallen soldiers isnt glorifying war or in any such matter. no one is being "exposed" to war. you dont even have to see any pictures of the dead. just pay them respect, and that doesnt include, IMO, having anti-war rallies.

What? Many anti-war rallies are protesting the government that is sending these young men to die. They do not get off to reports of dead soldiers, quite the contrary, they are paying a great amount of respect by trying to prevent more deaths.

The Westboro "Church" however.....

[HoreTore]

remembering the fallen soldiers isnt glorifying war or in any such matter.

But the fact that people with your political ideas are behind such things makes my belly squirm

[Hooahguy]

Are you... are you... serious...? America is far more aggressive than almost any other nation out there... I don't see how it is your enemy's fault for defending their homeland when threatened.

hmmm...... i am serious. you really think that terrorists bullets arent responsible for soldiers deaths? you think that the government is shooting their own soldiers?
wow, just wow. to completely blame the government on the deaths of soldiers. IMO, there are people pout there (islamic fundamentalists) who want me dead. these soldiers fight to keep me safe. they deserve all my respect. protest the government, but not on a day when we are to honor the soldiers, not the government.

Again, we are showing respect. We are not commenting on the personal actions of any one person - we are commenting on the actions of the machine which sent them there. This is our way of showing respect for the dead - we are preventing anyone else who is alive, and hence able to be saved, from having to go out and die.

you have 263 other days in the calendar to protest. heck, you can protest every day, but i dont think its right to have one on veterans and memorial day. but what i do think is fine are solemn, silent marches. not ones with screaming people in it crying for GWB to be impeached and stuff.

Well excuse me if I'm just trying to make the world a better place. Just because war is inevitable (Which I don't believe it is) doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it. If no one fights for an idea then we can never make progress towards that idea.

its one thing to fight for a cause in one country. but for 190+ countries? not everyone has your views, CA. im a realist in some ways and an idealist in others. world peace isnt a realistic idea. im not saying that i dont wish for world peace (b/c according to judaism if there is world peace the messiah will come) but i dont honestly believe it will come in our lifetime. maybe after the first nuclear war or something.

[Hooahguy]

We have submarines in active service in the Atlantic Fleet, all able to be tested as well.

Oh, anyway, I always stuck with this quote:

"There cannot be democracy without dissent"

true, but there are subs in both fleets that need to be constantly tested. again, its no use to only test the subs in the atlantic, b/c the subs in the pacific also need to be tested constantly.
just because the sonar system work in one sub doesnt mean it will work in all of them. they need to be constantly tested. besides, then well probably upset the environmentalists on the east coast.....
no-win situation for the navy if the listen to the environmentalists.