New factions?

[dromychaetes]

If you cannot back-up your statements with sources and evidence they are worthless to us. I'm sorry, but how can we implement anything you say without the evidence to back it up?

Foot

I can give you some links but they are in romanian and you wouldn't understand much. Usually, I read these information in books, the internet is full of crap. I'll see if I can find some good sites, but I can tell you clear, there where no phalanxes in native dacian army. if there where in some points mercenary hoplites is another thing.

[Foot]

I can give you some links but they are in romanian and you wouldn't understand much. Usually, I read these information in books, the internet is full of crap. I'll see if I can find some good sites, but I can tell you clear, there where no phalanxes in native dacian army. if there where in some points mercenary hoplites is another thing.

We are fully equipped with some romanians so links to books would be great. But please be aware that information found on the internet should certainly be taken with a pinch of salt as it rarely is able to keep up with continuing research or engage with both sides of an argument. We don't use the internet as a resource in EB, but instead rely on primary and secondary texts as well as archaelogical finds. We also don't have dacian phalanxes, but there is a thracian one from the southern tribes who were heavily influenced by the Makedonian military.

But to be quite honest our getian and thracian historians are top-notch and we feel comfortable with the portrayal of that region in EBI and it will largely be the same in EBII.

Foot

[dromychaetes]

I've had the "pleasure" to chat with one on a roumanian forum, and it came to my mind to see what is going on here. if you rely on this kind of people... let me put it in a nice way... you'll get nowhere and EBII will have skirmishers and stuff like that. I don't know if there are any writings of Diodor of Sicily on the internet, I tried to find some, there is presented the first dacian king, Dromichaites, who ruled in the period you're game would start. Firstly, there was no such thing as an assembled army, there where the king's guards, but the military organization was made by every taraboste in his settlement as the dacians where mostly a defensive nation, they didn't go for other lands than their own, so there was not an army like the macedonian or the roman army. It's very much to tell so I don't know if here is the place to discuss it. But my first impresion, and I'm only interested, as a Total War fan, and a romanian, to see dacians in the game as they actually where. The capital is said to be Helis, near Argesus river, left side of Danube, so that would be the main city, the capital of the burii is also presented as other 2-3 settlements, capitals of other dacian tribes.

I was trying to help a bit, but if you think it's not needed and your researchers are helping, not like in EB1, then that's fine with me, the only thing that is important to me is to see Dacia like it was, without those funy greek names for troops and so on.

[Foot]

You probably spoke to Cronos Impera. He is not the lead historian, the very able Paullus is Faction Coordinator for the Getai, and he is also the co-Lead Historian for the EB Team (you can read up on him in Stele #7.

And what language would you like us to use? Dacian and Thracian is unknown beyond a few non-military terms. Greek is the closest we can get, unfortunately.

My only concern is that you come here as a recent member with only 9 posts to your name making all kinds of assertions but so far unwilling to back any of it up with evidence. There is no way of knowing if you are legit or just trying to yank our chain. It is helpful in any internet forum to maintain a healthy level of distrust to any person you don't know.

Furthermore, our Getai faction does not represent the Dacians (as far as I am aware). It represents the Ordes Tribe. I would suggest that you PM Paullus with your concerns in a more coherent form than is available to you here and await his reply.

Insulting members of our team is going to get you no where, btw. Each and every one of them put so much time and energy into this project that to even question them as an individual is offensive. Question the evidence, but do not insult our team members.

Foot

[satalexton]

^congrats foot, ur 8000th post =]

[dromychaetes]

I cannot so far send you books in romanian, they are at the national library, in romanian, I can only give you and the others that do this the titles and the authors. The fact that the getai and the dacians where the same thing is well known. there where however some who said that the getai where the western dacians. About the language, it doesnt look to good if the getai and the greek factions (makedonia and greek cities) use the same language. I don't have the answer for that yet, I'll think about it. and for the fact that I have 9 or 10 or 20 posts, it doesn't matter, all that matters is that the information is correct.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I cannot so far send you books in romanian [...] it doesn't matter, all that matters is that the information is correct.

Are we supposed to just take you for your word until you get that information then?

^congrats foot, ur 8000th post =]

Why isn't he a senior member yet? I have seen senior members with only around 2,000 posts.

[Ludens]

Why isn't he a senior member yet? I have seen senior members with only around 2,000 posts.

Promotions are actually not determined by post count. Senior member is a special rank that is conferred to about 12 people every half year, generally for major contributions to the community.

Please tell me you arent considering leaving Syracuse or Pergamon out - their potential was incredible, even if not fully realised.
Illyria and Numidia would be a shame to waste too.

Pergamon, as stated before, will certainly be a faction. However, team members indicated that Syracuse most likely won't make it. The main problem is that there is barely any information on their military in the post-Alexandrian era. Also, chances are that Syracuse as a faction will end up being simply a speed bump on the way of Rome or Carthage. Archimedes notwithstanding, Syracuses glory days were well and truly over.

Incidentally, the main criteria for faction inclusion in EB are historicity and regional importance. Availability of information is important too, but enjoyability is not a criterion. Now matter how fun it might be, there won't be a Caledonian faction.

[Morte66]

enjoyability is not a criterion

This is a terrible shame.

[bovi]

EB has always been based on the assumption that a realistic and historical presentation is not a damper on playability, but rather increases it. That said, we will not add anything that might be "cool" or "fun" if it jars with these. Such as flaming pigs, for instance.

[Sir Edward]

As interesting as this discussion is I'm not sure this is the right thread for it.

I'll contribute by trying to get the thread back on topic.

1. Pergamon -- preview already available.
2. Bosphorean Kingdom-- a hellenic faction with a nice variety of native scythians & thracians
3. Belgae-- already has a small entry in the EB website, where they state starting territories, would be in a position to disrupt gaul and sweboz expansions, along with through rebellions giving the casse someone to fight in britain.
4. Boii-- an eastern europe celt faction, in my opinion at this time was better organized politically then the alternative illyrians tribe, keeps rome from heading north east to quickly and Epirus focus on the Balkans. EB addded a unit or 2 specific for the Boii in the last update.
5. Arevaci-- celtiberians, highlights the diversity of peoples in the iberian peninsula, metal working, coin minting, urbanized into oppida, subjugated their neighbors, make & broke alliances, a diversity of weapons and fighting styles, led the resistance along with the Belli against the Romans.
6. Atropatene-- an ancient diadochi kingdom in Azerbaijan, I can't find to many records about them but they were independent of the Seleucids. I admit I don't know much about their fighting style but imagine it to be simiar to the Hai and the Seleucids. Would give armenia someone to compete against for control of Caucasus and another thorn in the side of the gray death or an ally/bufferstate against parthian western expansion.
7. Gandhara--Something needs to be done about India, the current system of reelling to parthian control gives disruptive results, akin to what happen with Arabian Peninsula in pre-Saba EB. To represent the Mauryan empire would be out of the question but it would be nice to have a Mauryan northwestern satrap faction in game, taxilla from what i've read was a provincial capital.
8. Massyli-- Numidians faction, guarantees Carthage will have to fight for dominance in North Africa.
9. Nabataea-- Northern Arabian kingdom, access to red sea and arab trade routes, ramained independent until conquest by Traijan, expanded territory north into jordan at cost of weaken Seleucids.
10. Empty-- this faction slot should remain open for scripting purposes.

[Majd il-Romani]

As interesting as this discussion is I'm not sure this is the right thread for it.

I'll contribute by trying to get the thread back on topic.

1. Pergamon -- preview already available.
2. Bosphorean Kingdom-- a hellenic faction with a nice variety of native scythians & thracians
3. Belgae-- already has a small entry in the EB website, where they state starting territories, would be in a position to disrupt gaul and sweboz expansions, along with through rebellions giving the casse someone to fight in britain.
4. Boii-- an eastern europe celt faction, in my opinion at this time was better organized politically then the alternative illyrians tribe, keeps rome from heading north east to quickly and Epirus focus on the Balkans. EB addded a unit or 2 specific for the Boii in the last update.
5. Arevaci-- celtiberians, highlights the diversity of peoples in the iberian peninsula, metal working, coin minting, urbanized into oppida, subjugated their neighbors, make & broke alliances, a diversity of weapons and fighting styles, led the resistance along with the Belli against the Romans.
6. Atropatene-- an ancient diadochi kingdom in Azerbaijan, I can't find to many records about them but they were independent of the Seleucids. I admit I don't know much about their fighting style but imagine it to be simiar to the Hai and the Seleucids. Would give armenia someone to compete against for control of Caucasus and another thorn in the side of the gray death or an ally/bufferstate against parthian western expansion.
7. Gandhara--Something needs to be done about India, the current system of reelling to parthian control gives disruptive results, akin to what happen with Arabian Peninsula in pre-Saba EB. To represent the Mauryan empire would be out of the question but it would be nice to have a Mauryan northwestern satrap faction in game, taxilla from what i've read was a provincial capital.
8. Massyli-- Numidians faction, guarantees Carthage will have to fight for dominance in North Africa.
9. Nabataea-- Northern Arabian kingdom, access to red sea and arab trade routes, ramained independent until conquest by Traijan, expanded territory north into jordan at cost of weaken Seleucids.
10. Empty-- this faction slot should remain open for scripting purposes.

I agree with all (especially Gandhara. I WANT INDIA!) except for #6 and #10. THere are enough Diadochi kingdoms already how about the 2nd numidian kingdom?
And for 10, We shuld have either the Skythian remnants or another Germanic tribe

[Sir Edward]

I agree with all (especially Gandhara. I WANT INDIA!) except for #6 and #10. THere are enough Diadochi kingdoms already how about the 2nd numidian kingdom?
And for 10, We shuld have either the Skythian remnants or another Germanic tribe

Atropatene was the weakest canidate I put up, I was considering in its place Iberia (East not West). I decided not to include a second numidian kingdom since unique gameplay is a consideration of EB when deciding factions. But the representation of Gaul shows this may indeed be the path EB chooses to take. As for skythian and germanic tribes there aren't too many good options at the start of this time period. One option would be the cimbri but they would not have much room for expansion. The Bastarnae may be another quality choice, not sure how much archaelogical finds have been identified with this group.

[Sir Edward]

As interesting as this discussion is I'm not sure this is the right thread for it.

I'll contribute by trying to get the thread back on topic.

1. Pergamon -- preview already available.
2. Bosphorean Kingdom-- a hellenic faction with a nice variety of native scythians & thracians
3. Belgae-- already has a small entry in the EB website, where they state starting territories, would be in a position to disrupt gaul and sweboz expansions, along with through rebellions giving the casse someone to fight in britain.
4. Boii-- an eastern europe celt faction, in my opinion at this time was better organized politically then the alternative illyrians tribe, keeps rome from heading north east to quickly and Epirus focus on the Balkans. EB addded a unit or 2 specific for the Boii in the last update.
5. Arevaci-- celtiberians, highlights the diversity of peoples in the iberian peninsula, metal working, coin minting, urbanized into oppida, subjugated their neighbors, make & broke alliances, a diversity of weapons and fighting styles, led the resistance along with the Belli against the Romans.
6. Atropatene-- an ancient diadochi kingdom in Azerbaijan, I can't find to many records about them but they were independent of the Seleucids. I admit I don't know much about their fighting style but imagine it to be simiar to the Hai and the Seleucids. Would give armenia someone to compete against for control of Caucasus and another thorn in the side of the gray death or an ally/bufferstate against parthian western expansion.
7. Gandhara--Something needs to be done about India, the current system of reelling to parthian control gives disruptive results, akin to what happen with Arabian Peninsula in pre-Saba EB. To represent the Mauryan empire would be out of the question but it would be nice to have a Mauryan northwestern satrap faction in game, taxilla from what i've read was a provincial capital.
8. Massyli-- Numidians faction, guarantees Carthage will have to fight for dominance in North Africa.
9. Nabataea-- Northern Arabian kingdom, access to red sea and arab trade routes, ramained independent until conquest by Traijan, expanded territory north into jordan at cost of weaken Seleucids.
10. Empty-- this faction slot should remain open for scripting purposes.

REally excited about the news Boii preview this week. Also looking back through old thread I found this. So far I'm hitting 3 for 3 in confirmed predictions (Boii, Bosphorean Kingdom, & Massyli). Cmon EB team lets continue this clairvoyance streak. Keep up the great work EB.

[Zarax]

Somebody said something about clairvoyance long ago...

Tell to the king that the carven hall is fallen in decay;
Apollo has no chapel left, no prophesying bay,
No talking spring. The stream is dry that had so much to say.

[Mulceber]

REally excited about the news Boii preview this week. Also looking back through old thread I found this. So far I'm hitting 3 for 3 in confirmed predictions (Boii, Bosphorean Kingdom, & Massyli). Cmon EB team lets continue this clairvoyance streak. Keep up the great work EB.

Nice, but I don't think we're gonna get the Ghandahara kingdom - the EB team has already stated that they don't want to put any factions in India because they wouldn't have access to the whole of India. We'll see how you do for the rest. -M