Piracy makes a comeback

[Crazed Rabbit]

If I owned the ships I'd be putting some surplus .50 cal BMG machine guns on the sides. Hire a blackwater guy to go along on the trip and have the crew shoot at any small boat that gets close. Shouldn't be too difficult to add enough armor to deflect bullets and old RPGs.

If I was in charge of a nation I'd go and bombard the pirate base when a ship flying our flag was captured. Perhaps even pay the pirates off before killing them all. I mean, we know where the bases are, and we can crush them easily.

International law? Pfft. If it does nothing against these pirates, how are they going to use it against my country?

CR

[Tribesman]

If I owned the ships I'd be putting some surplus .50 cal BMG machine guns on the sides. Hire a blackwater guy to go along on the trip and have the crew shoot at any small boat that gets close. Shouldn't be too difficult to add enough armor to deflect bullets and old RPGs.

Makes you wonder why multi millionaire shipping magnates who can easily afford a whole pile of weaponry and a bunch of mercenaries don't go for the Rabbit approach doesn't it

Is it because Rabbit would find himself unable to get insurance , unable to get a shipping licence and arrested at the first port he docked at .....errrr actually he wouldn't even have to dock to get himself arrested and his ship siezed .
International law pffftsome people eh


Alexander , take a look at your post , then do a quick re-run of recent history in Somalia then try and explain how your post isn't bollox

[Sasaki Kojiro]

If I was a realpolitik US official, I'd work out a UN-sponsored peace-keeping trip to Somali (bankrolled by the shipping magnates who suffer from this) and start delivering plenty of high-explosive peace solutions to the pirate bases.

If I was in charge of a nation I'd go and bombard the pirate base when a ship flying our flag was captured. Perhaps even pay the pirates off before killing them all. I mean, we know where the bases are, and we can crush them easily.

Didn't you guys see black hawk down?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sasaki - I'm talking about bombs and bombarding, not sending in a dozen helicoters and no tanks.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sasaki - I'm talking about bombs and bombarding, not sending in a dozen helicoters and no tanks.

CR

Aren't there going to be civilians nearby though?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Aren't there going to be civilians nearby though?

There weren't in Mogadishu? Didn't over 1000 people die in that day or so of fighting? There's always going to be civilians nearby.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There weren't in Mogadishu? Didn't over 1000 people die in that day or so of fighting? There's always going to be civilians nearby.

CR

Stamping out piracy isn't worth 1000's of civilian deaths.

[Strike For The South]

oh NVM

[Crazed Rabbit]

Stamping out piracy isn't worth 1000's of civilian deaths.

Who says 1000s of civilians would die? We've got smart bombs and everything.

And if one was an international shipping conglomerate, I am sure there might be ways around the wussy attitude so many ports have about guns, like having other ships to store the guns on legally outside of port while the main ship docks. That idea is the result of a couple minutes of typing, and I'm sure prolonged thought on the matter could yield more ways for powerful corporations to deal with those problems.

However, one method that even control freak sissies couldn't ban* would be steam hoses - like water, but ever so hot and scalding. Get some nice nozzles set up around the ladders, points of boarding, and some mobile ones as well. Get lime too. Should be alright even on oil tankers. Of course, this might not work for wussy countries that fret about pirate's human rights.

Oh, and since tribesy has malfed up the whole linking to a site process again, here's a link that does work.

CR
*Maybe. The sissiness of sissies knows no bounds.

[AlexanderSextus]

Ya know, back in the day they developed a solution for marauding pirates that jacked everyone's cargo.

It was called the Ship of the Line


Modern day version:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ya know, back in the day they developed a solution for marauding pirates that jacked everyone's cargo.

It was called the Ship of the Line


Modern day version:

I admire your style. However, the historian in me is forced to note that the ships that got the job done were sloops and frigates. SOLs were too expensive for that kind of patrol work.

[AlexanderSextus]

I admire your style. However, the historian in me is forced to note that the ships that got the job done were sloops and frigates. SOLs were too expensive for that kind of patrol work.

Well, I didnt say that the SOTL was used for patrol work necessarily, i was under the impression that it was used to intercept pirates that were spotted going somewhere, i.e. a sloop saw a pirate ship headed for a certain port,but didn't have enough men and/or guns to sink it, so they send a SOTL to blow it out of the water while it's still en route.

That battleship would be the equivalent to a 17th century frigate, no?

As for the sloop...

Modern Day Version:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Folks, the military answer to this is as old as the hills. Gnaeus Pompeius flattened Med piracy for decades. Carribean piracy was almost eradicated in the mid-1700s. The British and Dutch more or less smashed Indonesian piracy.

Lots of boots; lots of patrolling; smash bases; arrest or kill any who support piracy; harsh and swift sentences for any pirate captured and anyone aiding and abetting them; all nation-states following the same basic approach.

HOWEVER, since few of these criteria can be met and others would meet with active opposition by the nation states involved as unethical and overly harsh, it's not going to change. Better patrol efforts by the USN will dial it back a bit for a short while, but that's it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Folks, the military answer to this is as old as the hills. Gnaeus Pompeius flattened Med piracy for decades. Carribean piracy was almost eradicated in the mid-1700s. The British and Dutch more or less smashed Indonesian piracy.

Lots of boots; lots of patrolling; smash bases; arrest or kill any who support piracy; harsh and swift sentences for any pirate captured and anyone aiding and abetting them; all nation-states following the same basic approach.

HOWEVER, since few of these criteria can be met and others would meet with active opposition by the nation states involved as unethical and overly harsh, it's not going to change. Better patrol efforts by the USN will dial it back a bit for a short while, but that's it.

That would be rather complicated given the Law of the Sea, international trade and the location. Unless we are once again expecting the United States to act as international policeman? I'd rather not sine this recent upsurge has a lot to do with that "mission".

The horse has somewhat bolted now, but the the best way to minimise anarchy like this is perhaps for the US administration not to interfere to overthrow regimes they don't like. Let's hope this kind of short-sightedness is drawing to a close, but I doubt.

Piracy will always and has always existed, but not recently as a national sport.

I am referring to the Bush Administration's intervention in Somalia in the name of the War on Terror. It has helped to destroy that wretched country's best chance of peace in a generation, left more than a million Somalis dead, homeless or starving, and achieved the precise opposite of its original goal. Far from stamping out an Islamic militancy that scarcely existed, the intervention has turned Somalia into a breeding ground for Islamic extremists and given al-Qaeda a valuable foothold in the Horn of Africa.

[rasoforos]

There has been a surge in piracy lately and because of it Somali growth rates are higher than ever :P

Piracy has been a millenia old problem but, till the latest surge it was largely confined in SE Asia and with rather primitive methods.

Now it seems that the Somali Pirates have established a multi million dollar business and I wouldnt be surprised if they use some of their ransom funds to equip their ships with enough juice to combat small-medium army vessels.

Recently a Saudi owned tanker with 100m worth of oil was captured. Today I also read that a greek-interests cargo ship was captured with 25 people on board.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7736885.stm

I am concerned that soon the situation will get out of control, other semi-failed states will get their own pirate fleets and, as I mentioned before, their technology will improve.

It seems to be that the international effort to control the problem is limited, disjointed, without real puprose and full of disagreements. Many countries have ships and troops there but noone says 'Lets do something'. All this presence does not seem to be doing anything since the pirates are getting even bolder.

I for once would like to see a couple greek frigates going down there and kicking some ass because the shipping industry is the lifeblood of our economy


I am not sure how to solve this problems but I would prpose:

a) Something not many people know is that Insurance companies offer Kidnap and Ransom policies. Consequently it is very easy for companies to call on these policies to pay. As a result they do not pressure the governments as much as they would if they would have to cough up all the money in one go. Such policies should be reduced.

b) A real Nato-like joint force with Land Support . The pirates work as a beehive and the current effort is just chasing the bees ( the small pirate ships) away. To kill a beehive you need to strike at it and not the bees. Generaly an argument such as ' If you dont release the ship we will flatten your pirate port to the ground' works better. U need to arrest the Pirate lords, capture the ports and destroy their infrastructure to succeed.

Some spec-ops operations to kill a few pirate lords should work quite well too

c) The Somali government is incapable of acting and is largely restricted to Mogadishu nowadays. Maybe we should give the Islamists a chance since they showed in the past that they have the military muscle to handle things. Sure they ll chop of a few heads and will stone a few rape victims to death but we westerners are happily allied with other countries that follow such lovely customs (Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan etc). Its not ideal, its not moral, but its practical.

My two eurocents...