Pyrrhus of Epirus

[The Persian Cataphract]

There is no consensus on the matter; so many new findings within the greater Iranian cultural continent are made with so much haste that the issue is getting even fuzzier as we speak; however, these findings are very heavily concentrated in the north-western Iranian frontier, which of course constitutes what once was the commonwealth Armenian sphere of influence. Zoroastrian sources are very explicit when it comes to the extent of the "Aryanaem Vaeja" or the "Aryan realm"; though it is consensus within scholarly circles that Zoroaster hailed from an area close to the Oxus (Some have claimed that the BMAC archeological culture is a candidate), it was Medieval Zoroastrian thought that he hailed from Âtûrpâtakân/Atropatene/Azerbaijan, which again is adjacent to Armenia. One must not forget that the Armenians had acquired Zoroastrianism somehow, and this of course is echoed throughout history. The words "Hai", "Hayeren" and "Hayrenik", as well as the modern "Armenia" are all cognates to "Arya".

This theory of Armenia being the original homeland of farmers (As opposed to Ukraine or northern Transcaucasia being the source of Indo-European nomadic migrations) is fairly recent, but a valid candidate. None of the theories are necessarily wrong.

[artavazd]

There is no consensus on the matter; so many new findings within the greater Iranian cultural continent are made with so much haste that the issue is getting even fuzzier as we speak; however, these findings are very heavily concentrated in the north-western Iranian frontier, which of course constitutes what once was the commonwealth Armenian sphere of influence. Zoroastrian sources are very explicit when it comes to the extent of the "Aryanaem Vaeja" or the "Aryan realm"; though it is consensus within scholarly circles that Zoroaster hailed from an area close to the Oxus (Some have claimed that the BMAC archeological culture is a candidate), it was Medieval Zoroastrian thought that he hailed from Âtûrpâtakân/Atropatene/Azerbaijan, which again is adjacent to Armenia. One must not forget that the Armenians had acquired Zoroastrianism somehow, and this of course is echoed throughout history. The words "Hai", "Hayeren" and "Hayrenik", as well as the modern "Armenia" are all cognates to "Arya".

This theory of Armenia being the original homeland of farmers (As opposed to Ukraine or northern Transcaucasia being the source of Indo-European nomadic migrations) is fairly recent, but a valid candidate. None of the theories are necessarily wrong.

Thanks for the clear up on the Zoroastrian sources. Well alot of people with connection to Indo-European have words that are connected with "Arya/Aryan". Well the word "Armenia" is not realy a modern word. It is as old as Hai. Both come from Armenian roots. Such as the Germans calling their nation Deutchland, while there is also Germany, and also Alemania. All three words have Germanic roots.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The PIE populations were never an unified tribe, thus so far most of them ("the nomads", as stated by TPC) were probably pastoralist cultures from the steppes that adopted the language and were, at least to the extent of my knowledge, heavily centered upon the use of chariots (think Indo-Aryans and Hittites, as well the ceremonial remnants in Celto-Italic and Greek civilizations). Thus so far gamegeek's theory and the Armenian hypothesis are not necessarily mutually contradictory, but might state the fact that the extension of the PIE speaking population was perhaps larger than the theorized in the original Kurgan hypothesis.

[Megas Methuselah]

Who was in Europe before the Celts (I mean, IE's)?

[artavazd]

The PIE populations were never an unified tribe, thus so far most of them ("the nomads", as stated by TPC) were probably pastoralist cultures from the steppes that adopted the language and were, at least to the extent of my knowledge, heavily centered upon the use of chariots (think Indo-Aryans and Hittites, as well the ceremonial remnants in Celto-Italic and Greek civilizations). Thus so far gamegeek's theory and the Armenian hypothesis are not necessarily mutually contradictory, but might state the fact that the extension of the PIE speaking population was perhaps larger than the theorized in the original Kurgan hypothesis.

You know that seems very plausible. So the ones in the steppes would be of a more pasturalist culture, and the ones in the Caucasus/Armenian highlands would be more agricultural base.

[gamegeek2]

There is probably a Proto-Indo-European ethnonym, related to "Aryana" somehow.

They were probably split, into Nomadic and Pastoral like the EB nomadic factions.

FYI, I follow the Kurgan hypothesis, that Indo-Europeans originated in and north of the Caucasus mountains, and that the Greeks came from the north, not across from Anatolia.

[artavazd]

There is probably a Proto-Indo-European ethnonym, related to "Aryana" somehow.

They were probably split, into Nomadic and Pastoral like the EB nomadic factions.

FYI, I follow the Kurgan hypothesis, that Indo-Europeans originated in and north of the Caucasus mountains, and that the Greeks came from the north, not across from Anatolia.

I dont realy know much on the subject, but I know that several subjects in Greek mythology came from Anatolia/Caucasus. One such example would be cyclopses.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

The maximum extent for the PIE culture would probably NOT include Anatolia. IIRC there was an old Hittite inscription (as described by C. W. Ceram) about a ceremonial rite that placed the "Great Sea" on the East, together with the rising sun. It is also documented that the Hittites came from the Caucasus and expanded onto Central Anatolia afterwards in historical times, displacing and overruling the local non-IE inhabitants (Hattians).

[keravnos]

I dont realy know much on the subject, but I know that several subjects in Greek mythology came from Anatolia/Caucasus. One such example would be cyclopses.

This would be attributed to Pelasgoi, a pre-hellenic people who lived from Epeiros down to the whole of Greece. After Hellenic conquest and assimilation, they deffinitely held on to their myths which then became Hellenic myths, albeit changed. For example, Dodona was from 2000 BCE a site of worship for the great godess of the Earth, GAIA. Then after the Dorians came, the worship shifted to that of Zeus, BUT Zeus in Epeiros was considered married with the local godess, Dione. This Dione must be old Gaia, or Earth-mother or whatever else Pelasgoi (Pre-Greeks rather) of Epeiros would call her.