Fallout 3 discussion

[Lemur]

He's in there? I don't think I have encountered him yet. Unless ... is he the one on the Enclave radio station?

Yuppers, that's Alex sans droogs on the radio. His American accents is ... unconvincing. I hope Bethesda didn't spend too much on him.

Maybe they should just fire whoever's been in charge of the voiceovers and start fresh. Your average small-town community theater director could do better, after all.

-edit-

Zero Punctuation has weighed in. Usual disclaimers about his reviews, since they all seem to contain bad words.

[Zenicetus]

Yeah, Moriarty jumped out at me as well. His weird faux-Gaelic thing had me shaking my head. Really threw me out of the game.

Me too, but for a different reason. Unless there is frequent travel and immigration across the Atlantic in Fallout's post-apocalypse world (and I don't know canon, maybe there is?), Moriarty shouldn't have that strong an accent. Non-local accents would flatten out quickly in the second and third generation in the kind of small survivor communities Fallout depicts, after 200 years or so. Maybe he did wash up on the beach from an exploring Irish shipwreck or something. But it just didn't feel like he belonged there, and they just stuck him in like a stereotype Boston pub owner from a 1940's Hollywood movie.

On another note.... I've decided that if I ever do replay the game, I'll avoid putting too many points into Perception. That may be one reason why the game is feeling a little too easy, and I don't think it's just a case of playing at Normal instead of a higher level (unless Perception scales with that). I'm only level 13 but I can spot enemies stainding in the street a block away, with a large multi-story concrete office building standing between us. That's a little ridiculous, unless post-apocalypse tech includes something like neutrino shadow radar. It's just an overpowering advantage for the player. As long as I remember to occasionally turn and scan behind me, and outside of a few surprise/scripted scenarios, I just never get jumped by surprise. I can always initiate the attacks on my terms, from good cover (which bad guys seldom use). I think if I played it again with low Perception, the game would be more fun. The world would feel more dangerous.

[Sarmatian]

I've tried playing with a melee/big guns build character (STR and END, plus unavoidable INT) and I'm getting owned. It wasn't the problem at first, but later (10th level or so) it became quite hard. Enemies start getting better and better weapons like missile launchers, assault rifles, shotguns, energy weapons. I'm usually dead before I close in. Also, going in melee with deathclaws or yao guai-something is suicide. They're too fast and manage to disrupt my attack too often, not to mention they're often found in groups. Now, it could be that I'm just bad at it, I suck at FPSs generally, but I pretty much abandoned that build because it was too hard/annoying. Also, even if successful, my character usually loses much of her HP which forces me to travel often to rest which is annoying. I've gotten into a habit of exploring the wastes and using stimpacks until I find a new location and then fast travel back to Megaton to rest and fast travel back again to that location to continue exploring...

Big Guns are a disappointment, too. Using minigun means wasting ammo. Sure, they're useful at times, at close range and with big targets, but combat shotgun is much more efficient and powerful. Missile launchers are rare and ammo for them is rare, which means crappy condition of the weapon (NPCs can max repair it to 54%) and buying a lot of missiles (which is expensive). Flamer is useful and fuel isn't so scarce but again limited to close range and generally much worse than combat shotgun. although it's useful against slow and moderately armoured critters like radscorpions and those overgrown crabs.

For me, it wasn't fun at all. Small Guns/Energy Weapons combo rulez

[Zenicetus]

Yeah, as I get closer to the endgame, playing a sneak/small arms/energy weapons type, I realize why a melee specialist build wouldn't work. Getting mobbed by three mercenaries and a robot at close range is insta-death, because there is no specialized combat style for group melee, like there is in The Witcher (for example).

As good as the sneak skills are, they're not anything like the uber-ninja'd Rogues in D&D style games, where you can literally walk up behind an enemy without them noticing. Aggro ranges are still fairly long, whatever your sneak skills. At least at the level I'm at right now. This game wants you to use guns. The melee weapons are just a crutch for the lower levels, before you start accumulating more ammo than you can use.

[Sir Moody]

not entirely true my lvl 20 chatracter uses unarmed (deathclaw gauntlets) and I can usually 2 shot a death claw and with 100 sneak and silent running i can quite litterally get to melee range with most things

late game melee takes off again (mostly thanks too paralazing palm) but up until then your going to want a shotgun and a hunting rifle as backup as mid game is dominated by the small arms

[Kekvit Irae]

not entirely true my lvl 20 chatracter uses unarmed (deathclaw gauntlets) and I can usually 2 shot a death claw and with 100 sneak and silent running i can quite litterally get to melee range with most things

late game melee takes off again (mostly thanks too paralazing palm) but up until then your going to want a shotgun and a hunting rifle as backup as mid game is dominated by the small arms

And plenty of grenades. I'm now playing an Unarmed build, and I cant stress enough how useful grenades are in comparison to a ranged build.

[naut]

It's strange that Bethesda lavishes so much detail on, say, a floor texture, then drops the ball so badly with the voice acting. And there are still too many repeat voices. Here's a thought: Don't hire expensive Brit actors to do bad impersonations of American accents (did nobody tell Malcolm McDowell about how we pronounce "schedule," among other words?), and instead hire a slew of low-cost voiceover actors so's you don't have repeats.

Hehe. Yeah, but it's something I've come to expect from Bethesda...

Tried it at a friends house during the week. It's pretty, and although some of the clutter seemed a little out of place it has remained somewhat true to the series. The combat system, alright, having looked here before playing it, (which I'm glad I did), I knew to expect an Oblivion style game. Fairly fun, and the quests are decent (where I got up to atleast).

It seems like there's a lot to do, fairly big world with many quests. Yet, despite having so much stuff to do, I had so little motivation to do it. I just couldn't will myself into playing longer. And despite liking the game, I don't think I'll be buying it any time soon.

[Veho Nex]

have done 100% everything I could from evil to neutral to good.. Took me well under my expected 100 hours mark, I think barely over 40 hours for all side quest dungeons and the like. Its way more fun to be evil, but more rewarding(Money and weapons) to be good... For example the law bringer perk, you can rake in the cash by just visiting all the raider spots you know of and taking their ears.

[Kekvit Irae]

have done 100% everything I could from evil to neutral to good.. Took me well under my expected 100 hours mark, I think barely over 40 hours for all side quest dungeons and the like. Its way more fun to be evil, but more rewarding(Money and weapons) to be good... For example the law bringer perk, you can rake in the cash by just visiting all the raider spots you know of and taking their fingers.

Ears for Contract Killer, fingers for Lawbringer.

Another good side effect of being Good or Very Good is the ability to recruit Fawkes and Cross late in the game. I love how Fawkes mows down people with his gatling laser, and Cross can wear any armor you give her.
Plus being good gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[TinCow]

Interestingly, the Washington Post has an article on FO3 voice acting today.

[frogbeastegg]

Interestingly, the Washington Post has an article on FO3 voice acting today.

That was a good read; thanks for the link.

[TB666]

Editor is coming next month along with 3 confirmed DLCs.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/933/933617p1.html

Fallout 3 DLC Revealed
Operation: Anchorage heads the pack in January for 360 and PC.
by Martin Robinson, IGN UK

UK, November 25, 2008 - Details of the first downloadable content for Bethesda's Fallout 3 have emerged from the vault, with Operation: Anchorage heading the batch for Xbox 360 and PC in January.

The PC will also be getting an official editor for the game in December, appropriately titled G.E.C.K (Garden of Eden Creation Kit). Fallout 3's game director Todd Howard said of the editor, "We've always seen the original world of Fallout 3 as a foundation for even more content. Some created by us, and a lot more created by users. It's fun to create your own character, but it can be equally fun to create your own adventures. We can't wait to see what the community does with the G.E.C.K."

Operation: Anchorage, a simulation of the liberation of the Alaskan city from Chinese communists, is the first of the downloadable episodes. Exclusive to Xbox 360 and PC, it will be followed by two further instalments; The Pitt, taking place in a raider town in Pittsburgh and due in February, followed in March by Broken Steel, which extends the main quest and takes up the story of the Brotherhood of Steel.

Price points have yet to be announced for any of the content.

[Kekvit Irae]

Editor is coming next month along with 3 confirmed DLCs.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/933/933617p1.html

Sounds pretty awesome. Looks like they are going to have some actual use for those two Chinese radio stations I found around the wasteland.

[Zenicetus]

Operation: Anchorage, a simulation of the liberation of the Alaskan city from Chinese communists, is the first of the downloadable episodes.

That sounds interesting. A change of scenery with some snow would be nice. IIRC, this would happen just before the big nuclear war, so the Anchorage area should be more or less intact. Maybe war-ravaged, but not as bad as D.C. I hope they don't just take the D.C. area rubble and color it white. It would be fun to see some of those "1950's idea of the future" cars and buses running around.

Exclusive to Xbox 360 and PC, it will be followed by two further instalments; The Pitt, taking place in a raider town in Pittsburgh and due in February, followed in March by Broken Steel, which extends the main quest and takes up the story of the Brotherhood of Steel.

I assume the first one (Anchorage) would have the player start up a new character at level 1, since there's no continuity with the post-nuclear scenario. Or maybe they'll start you at level 10-15, since it probably won't be as long as the main quest. If you're a soldier running around in power armor, I guess you won't be starting at level 1.

I wonder how they'll handle the other two DLC's though, especially the last one (Brotherhood of Steel) that continues the the main quest. Doesn't that imply that they'll extend the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. levels with more stats and perks, if the player can continue the quest with the same character? Or will there be some kind of reset, where the player starts again at zero or a lower level, to fit inside the current system?

[Kekvit Irae]

Operation: Anchorage, a simulation of the liberation of the Alaskan city from Chinese communists, is the first of the downloadable episodes.

I assume the first one (Anchorage) would have the player start up a new character at level 1, since there's no continuity with the post-nuclear scenario. Or maybe they'll start you at level 10-15, since it probably won't be as long as the main quest. If you're a soldier running around in power armor, I guess you won't be starting at level 1.

Note the word "simulation."
More than likely, it will be just like the Tranquility Lane simulation in Vault 112 during the main quest.

[Zenicetus]

Ah ha, I missed simulation. Yep, that would keep it in the timeline of the main game, if that's what they're shooting for.

[Veho Nex]

really i thought it was fingers for evil... hmmmmm

[naut]

Rented on XBOX, and my full thoughts.

Pros:
Making weapons is a cute aspect of the game.
Very pretty.
Humourous at times.
The ambiance fits the series.
Some good wow factor moments.
VATS wasn't as bad as I initially thought it was. But... (see below).

Cons:
The quests/storyline filled with filthy plot-holes, bugs and other nuisances.
Plus it's not very original at all, many quests had me thinking "I've done this before".
I literally had to force my self to play, the only thing keeping me playing was the fact I knew I had to give it back yesterday.
The dust and terrain isn't brown enough. Gah!
The voice-overs... LOL!
In total I found the game to be pretty easy/lacking.
VATS is a bit dodgy, since even if you have low perception just boot it up to see if enemies are around...

All in all, not as bad as it's made out to be by hard-core "old-skool" fans. Yet, in all honesty I much prefer FO1 and 2. Rent don't buy.

[Sir Moody]

Making weapons is a cute aspect of the game.

cute but theres not really enough - there is a fully functioning but still Beta mod that lets you craft any weapon in the game and is going to include some more later on so the community will fix this

The quests/storyline filled with filthy plot-holes, bugs and other nuisances.
Plus it's not very original at all, many quests had me thinking "I've done this before".

a flaw with most modern RPG's i find these days - gone are the days weh nquests were somewhat unique - theres only so many times you can do things

VATS is a bit dodgy, since even if you have low perception just boot it up to see if enemies are around...

must be an xbox flaw as in the PC VATS only works if your cross hair is in the general area of a creature within range

[Kekvit Irae]

must be an xbox flaw as in the PC VATS only works if your cross hair is in the general area of a creature within range

Same on the 360. I can only pull up VATS if the enemy is within my sights. For long distance shooting, I almost have to line the crosshair up perfectly.

[naut]

a flaw with most modern RPG's i find these days - gone are the days weh nquests were somewhat unique - theres only so many times you can do things

Very minor spoilers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The whole darn game is a mish-mash of the previous two games' story lines, with a few sprinkles of Bioshock/System Shock and a "matrixesque" ending. A poor, poor effort by the people that created the TES Universe.

[frogbeastegg]

Finished at last. 1 month of play, in the form of 54 hours. I did all of the named quests except for 2 (1 broke midway through, the other is evil), found all of the bobbleheads and super mutant behemoths, toured the wastes, reached level 20 and turned into an angel of uber death.

Now I'm looking at the game retrospectively it's easier to see why I didn't like it more. The reason is blindly simple and I feel stupid for not working it out earlier: it's outdated. The graphics, budget and presentation are very modern. The game itself isn't. So many aspects of this game have been done better by other games, and Bethesda themselves have made little effort to update some of the creakiest aspects of their template.

The plot based half of the game never won my kinder feelings. That includes the side quests. This is the game at its most archaic. The static conversations with barely animated talking heads spouting lines of limp dialogue, before you head out to pick up the greeblie from tunnel dungeon 24, only to slog back and hand it over in another talking head scene. Congratulations, here are some items you probably don't need and a dribble of XP. Please activate the next talking head scene and learn which tunnel dungeon you need to trawl through in order to find the mystic spreebong. If the game had a good plot and writing I could have suffered this with better cheer; it doesn't. I forgive the dungeon chase with crap plot and dialogue when I replay Icewind Dale because it's very old and was never billed as more than an AD&D dungeon crawl. I won't forgive it in Fallout 3; it should be so much more.

The other half of the game, the part where plot and chat played no part, was much more enjoyable. Wandering the wastes looking for bobbleheads, behemoths, locations and XP was much more pleasant. It was this aspect which allowed Bethesda's attention to detail to shine, and this part which supplied the bulk of the good plot. Stumbling across charred skeletons and being able to work out what that person was doing when the bomb fell, finding records which detail the struggle to survive, the cold chill that ran down the back of my neck as I realised that a certain brothel must have been for paedophiles ...

Oh, and stomping around as an unstoppable killing machine of shiny righteousness never hurts Uber armour, uber plasma rifle, maxed useful skills, level 20, and the grim reaper perk, mmmm.

The game's power curve was quite badly out of skew. I was pretty unstoppable until I reached level 8. I then struggled until around level 11, felt combat was balanced until around level 15, then steadily got more and more uber. I don't mind the latter portion of that curve; the front part isn't right. I did reach level 20 very early on; there was a lot left for me to do. Level 25 would have been a better choice for the cap IMO.

[Pontius Pilate]

Finished at last. 1 month of play, in the form of 54 hours. I did all of the named quests except for 2 (1 broke midway through, the other is evil), found all of the bobbleheads and super mutant behemoths, toured the wastes, reached level 20 and turned into an angel of uber death.

Now I'm looking at the game retrospectively it's easier to see why I didn't like it more. The reason is blindly simple and I feel stupid for not working it out earlier: it's outdated. The graphics, budget and presentation are very modern. The game itself isn't. So many aspects of this game have been done better by other games, and Bethesda themselves have made little effort to update some of the creakiest aspects of their template.

The plot based half of the game never won my kinder feelings. That includes the side quests. This is the game at its most archaic. The static conversations with barely animated talking heads spouting lines of limp dialogue, before you head out to pick up the greeblie from tunnel dungeon 24, only to slog back and hand it over in another talking head scene. Congratulations, here are some items you probably don't need and a dribble of XP. Please activate the next talking head scene and learn which tunnel dungeon you need to trawl through in order to find the mystic spreebong. If the game had a good plot and writing I could have suffered this with better cheer; it doesn't. I forgive the dungeon chase with crap plot and dialogue when I replay Icewind Dale because it's very old and was never billed as more than an AD&D dungeon crawl. I won't forgive it in Fallout 3; it should be so much more.

The other half of the game, the part where plot and chat played no part, was much more enjoyable. Wandering the wastes looking for bobbleheads, behemoths, locations and XP was much more pleasant. It was this aspect which allowed Bethesda's attention to detail to shine, and this part which supplied the bulk of the good plot. Stumbling across charred skeletons and being able to work out what that person was doing when the bomb fell, finding records which detail the struggle to survive, the cold chill that ran down the back of my neck as I realised that a certain brothel must have been for paedophiles ...

Oh, and stomping around as an unstoppable killing machine of shiny righteousness never hurts Uber armour, uber plasma rifle, maxed useful skills, level 20, and the grim reaper perk, mmmm.

The game's power curve was quite badly out of skew. I was pretty unstoppable until I reached level 8. I then struggled until around level 11, felt combat was balanced until around level 15, then steadily got more and more uber. I don't mind the latter portion of that curve; the front part isn't right. I did reach level 20 very early on; there was a lot left for me to do. Level 25 would have been a better choice for the cap IMO.

so in sense, the game is pretty much Oblivion with guns? What do you think?

[Sir Moody]

so in sense, the game is pretty much Oblivion with guns? What do you think?

with a pinch of fallout humour in places but otherwise yup that sums it up

[frogbeastegg]

so in sense, the game is pretty much Oblivion with guns? What do you think?

No. You can tell they are made by the same developers, but they don't feel like the same game. Fallout 3 is a quest based game; Oblivion is a sandbox with quests.

Fallout 3 feels to me like a game which arrived too late. The graphics, budget and detail are 2008 at its best. Other aspects, mainly those relating to the quest portions of the game, feel like they come from the start of the decade. Once upon a time I'd have found the static talking heads amazing because they have lip movement, not cared too much about trawling umpteen tunnel dungeons, and accepted that the vast majority of games have rubbish plots. Nowadays I expect much more.

I could see a game like Fallout 3 working on Bioware's ancient Infinity Engine. You just strip away the 3D and the gloss and there you go. I can't imagine Mass Effect or some of the other recent high profile RPGs being made on that engine. You'd manage to get parts of the game working on the Infinity Engine, yet you'd never manage to get the whole.

[Sir Moody]

No. You can tell they are made by the same developers, but they don't feel like the same game. Fallout 3 is a quest based game; Oblivion is a sandbox with quests.

Fallout 3 feels to me like a game which arrived too late. The graphics, budget and detail are 2008 at its best. Other aspects, mainly those relating to the quest portions of the game, feel like they come from the start of the decade. Once upon a time I'd have found the static talking heads amazing because they have lip movement, not cared too much about trawling umpteen tunnel dungeons, and accepted that the vast majority of games have rubbish plots. Nowadays I expect much more.

I could see a game like Fallout 3 working on Bioware's ancient Infinity Engine. You just strip away the 3D and the gloss and there you go. I can't imagine Mass Effect or some of the other recent high profile RPGs being made on that engine. You'd manage to get parts of the game working on the Infinity Engine, yet you'd never manage to get the whole.

Im not so sure you know - Oblivion really wasnt a sand box either

Oblivions gameplay was exactly the same as fallout 3's - wander around until you find a quest or a landmark and complete/explore it then continue with the wandering

you can argue there were more quests/locations but the gameplay is totally the same - the only really sandbox item in Oblivion was the skill system...

[TinCow]

Im not so sure you know - Oblivion really wasnt a sand box either

Oblivions gameplay was exactly the same as fallout 3's - wander around until you find a quest or a landmark and complete/explore it then continue with the wandering

you can argue there were more quests/locations but the gameplay is totally the same - the only really sandbox item in Oblivion was the skill system...

I don't agree at all. The term 'sandbox game' generally refers to non-linear gameplay that allows a person to take or turn down quests as they wish and move in any direction they wish to go, regardless of the main storyline. Oblivion seems about as perfect a fit for the designation sandbox game as anything else. I also don't understand how the nature of the skill system even applies to it being classified as sandbox or not sandbox. Surely it is the open nature of the world that makes something a sandbox game, not a person's ability to choose various skills as they please, as the latter is present in plenty of extremely linear games.

[frogbeastegg]

I don't agree at all. The term 'sandbox game' generally refers to non-linear gameplay that allows a person to take or turn down quests as they wish and move in any direction they wish to go, regardless of the main storyline. Oblivion seems about as perfect a fit for the designation sandbox game as anything else. I also don't understand how the nature of the skill system even applies to it being classified as sandbox or not sandbox. Surely it is the open nature of the world that makes something a sandbox game, not a person's ability to choose various skills as they please, as the latter is present in plenty of extremely linear games.

This.

Sandbox was the whole idea behind Morrowind and Oblivion. Make whatever kind of character you like and go forth into the world to do whatever catches your fancy.

[johnhughthom]

I think Morrowind was the perfect sandbox game, you could go out into the world with no idea what the main plot was. I played for six months without realizing there was a main plot. Playing Oblivion and Fallout 3 without following the main plot doesn't feel right.

Demons are taking over the world!! OK I'm gonna spend a few days looking for nirnroot.
I've just ostracised myself from my lifelong home to follow my father. I know, I won't bother actually looking for him, instead I'll help some nutter write a book.

That is why I could never really get into Oblivion or Fallout 3, it just felt wrong.

[Sir Moody]

Sandbox was the whole idea behind Morrowind and Oblivion. Make whatever kind of character you like and go forth into the world to do whatever catches your fancy.

Which is also true with fallout - however theres a finite number of character types and a finite amount of things to do as with Oblivion and as with Morrowind

a sand box game in my opinion is a game which provides the system and the rule set and then lets you do as you please - D&D in its table top form is a sand box - theres no limmit to what the DM can let the players do - Star wars Galaxies (pre-NGE) and the classic Ultima Online were Sand box's (more or less)

my definition of a sand box game would be "heres the game world - heres the combat system - go and do as you please - your imagination is the limmit" - Mount and Blade is the perfect example of this (or it was last time i played which was a while back)

by your definition Fallout 3 is a Sand box, just a smaller one then Oblivion which was a smaller one again than Morrowind

Sand box simulators is a better description