favorite faction in XL or Vanilla

[chris34au]

since MTW's been around for years, i really hope that this isn't a tired topic but i'd love to know what factions everyone prefers to use when playing the game. i'm trying to break away from playing as Aragon or Bohemia so often but it doesn't seem like there's many other factions that interest me.

i like England's unit roster but they start out with too many provinces and have too much room for early expansion. it seems like you can easily have 9-10 provinces by 1100 or so when playing as England. HRE and the Byzantines start out with around 10 provinces, so i've never tried them in Early either. i like the Byzantines situation in High but i'd much rather have the same scenario(2 starting ,provinces) in Early, so that there'd be more time to build infrastructure and expand.

i've tried a campaign with Novogrod but, like England, it seemed way too easy to expand and all of my heirs were alcoholics. is this common when playing as Novogrod? i really liked their unit roster though. i'm kinda interested in trying Hungary but i don't know how old it will get to have Crusades constantly passing through. i've also thought about trying Armenia but it seems like it might be pretty tough to have a decent economy playing as them and i'm not sure how great of a unit roster that they have.

i apologize if this is the 8,000th "what's your favorite faction?" thread but i've tried searching the archives to find a similar thread and didn't have any luck....especially when it comes to XL factions being included.

[Brandy Blue]

I've never been able to pick a favorite faction. One thing I like about MTW/XL is the variety of factions and unit rosters, so you can always switch around and try something else.

If you want some help picking a new faction to try, I would definitely suggest Armenia. From your post I gather that you want:

1: a challenging starting position
2: an opportunity to build infrastructure and economy
3: a Western style unit roster (your favorites, Aragon and Bohemia are both western)

Armenia starts with one province in the lions' den. You have to deal with Turkey, Egypt, and Byzantium. Depending on circumstances, you may be attacked by the Mongols later on too. So you have a challenging start.

Once you have established yourself, you will get a chance to work on infrastructure and economy. The area south of Georgia, north of Egypt, and west of Byzantium includes some rich provinces with much potential for farming and trade.

I don't remember the Armenian unit roster very well, but I seem to remember that it had a very Catholic feel to it, apart from the Armenian infantry, who resemble Byzantine infantry.

Other than Armenia, I suggest that you just try factions and see what you like. You could also try looking at some faction guides to see which sound fun to you.

[bamff]

Serbia in early provides a good challenge and plenty of fun. They have a pretty handy unit roster (particularly if you like using various mounted missile units).

Your starting position is a single province, with independent Croatia next door your best early shot for expansion. Meanwhile you have to keep an eye on some very large neighbours (Byzantines and Hungary).

You will have issues early on in terms of balancing out your economy, and in maintaining the loyalty of your generals. Both of these factors will add greatly to your satisfaction from a job well done.

Oh - another bonus - as an orthodox faction, you don't have "Papal Issues" to deal with....

[chris34au]

thanks for the reply. i think i'll start an Areminian campaign tonight. i've thought about trying them several times but i wasn't sure how easy it would be for them to build up a decent economy, since Lesser Armenia doesn't have any trade resources. as far as their unit roster goes, i know that they can build Armenian Infantry and are supposed to have really good cavalry(which sounds great) but i don't really know much more about them.

you've totally piqued my interest though. i'm definitely going to check them out. thanks again.

[chris34au]

Serbia in early provides a good challenge and plenty of fun. They have a pretty handy unit roster (particularly if you like using various mounted missile units).

Your starting position is a single province, with independent Croatia next door your best early shot for expansion. Meanwhile you have to keep an eye on some very large neighbours (Byzantines and Hungary).

You will have issues early on in terms of balancing out your economy, and in maintaining the loyalty of your generals. Both of these factors will add greatly to your satisfaction from a job well done.

Oh - another bonus - as an orthodox faction, you don't have "Papal Issues" to deal with....

i really like Serbia's starting location and i've thought about giving them a try several times but i wasn't sure about their unit roster. i like mounted missile units but i wasn't sure how the Carska Garda measures up against Boyers and/or if their unit roster gets better as the game goes on. i'd love to be able to play as Bulgaria in Early but i know next to nothing about modding, or even if it's possible to mod the game in order to be able to play as Bulgaria in Early.

[bamff]

Once you get into "High", Carska Garda become something more like Royal Knights (though I believe possibly with slightly reduced stats), and Vlastela Heavy Cavalry become something more like Chiv Knights (again I believe stats are not quite the same). In other words, while both are heavy mounted projectile units in early, with a useful cavalry capability, they become very useful cavalry from "High" onwards.

VHC's can dismount to become Chivalric footknights (as can CG's), but you cannot actually train footknights as such.

Don't forget Voynuk Swordsmen (very handy to have early on) and Voynuk Bladesmen (sort of a lightly armoured Halberdier?).

Brandy Blue had me thinking about Armenia as well....my current Burgundian campaign will be all wrapped up in the not too distant future....I was originally thinking that the Crusader States might be my next faction, but now.....

Actually if you were happy to try a faction in "late", Burgundy is worth a go as well. Well hemmed in to start off, and some good units to play with.

[chris34au]

Once you get into "High", Carska Garda become something more like Royal Knights (though I believe possibly with slightly reduced stats), and Vlastela Heavy Cavalry become something more like Chiv Knights (again I believe stats are not quite the same). In other words, while both are heavy mounted projectile units in early, with a useful cavalry capability, they become very useful cavalry from "High" onwards.

VHC's can dismount to become Chivalric footknights (as can CG's), but you cannot actually train footknights as such.

Don't forget Voynuk Swordsmen (very handy to have early on) and Voynuk Bladesmen (sort of a lightly armoured Halberdier?).

Brandy Blue had me thinking about Armenia as well....my current Burgundian campaign will be all wrapped up in the not too distant future....I was originally thinking that the Crusader States might be my next faction, but now.....

Actually if you were happy to try a faction in "late", Burgundy is worth a go as well. Well hemmed in to start off, and some good units to play with.

i'd love to try Burgundy but i wasn't really sure about doing a campaign in Late. i love knowing that there's plenty of time to turtle and build infrastructure and i wasn't sure if there'd be enough time to do that in a Late era campaign.

i've tried a High era campaign as the Crusader States and really loved the unit roster but i got kinda bored with it after Egypt was wiped out pretty early in the game. the Teutons seem like another really fun faction to play but i really wish that they were available in Early.

thanks for all of the Serbia tips. now, i'm kinda torn on who to try first. i think i'll just go with the first faction to give me a starting unit with 4 acumen plumes to get the economy rolling.

[Brandy Blue]

Serbia or Armenia - I'd say you can't go wrong. Why not check which of those provinces has the highest starting income and the best farmland potential? It seems like your starting economy really matters to you. You've mentioned it twice.

I haven't played Serbia for a while but I think this is true. If you play high period, then Greece and Constantinople are rebel held and open to bribery if you move fast before anyone else gets them. Boosts the size of your rather small starting army and hugely increases your income without a fight.

[seireikhaan]

Golden Horde in the late period. Nothing like trying to make a mounted blitz of the world to fulfill the Great Khan's dream.

Plus, the early parts of the campaign a a great challenge. Its not uncommon to be at war with Lithuania, Novogorod, Russia, the Ottomans, the Byzantines, Armenians, Teutonic Order, and Egyptians, all within a span of the first 50 years.

[Knight of the Rose]

I think I've played all the factions except Scicily - somehow they just don't appeal to me. I play a different faction each time, as I feel varity wins. There is one scenario that I keep returning to, though, and that is Byz in High.

First you need to regain your capital, then you need to rebuild and resupply your army, all the while being harassed by the Turks and the Hungarians. And then, when you finally think you're secure the golden horde hits you, and you have no polearms.

Good fun

/KotR

[Wasp]

One of my favourite factions at the moment are the Venetians. They have an interesting position, between all sorts of powers, and will have to rely on trade and diplomacy at the beginning. Once they build up their cash reserves, they can afford to go conquer themselves.

[Jxrc]

Never played XL so bear with me ....

Favourite factions are (I almost never play any other period than early):

- Sicily (you can pretty much do whatever you want, turtle blitz, up to you);
- Danemark (same reason + vikings)
- Aragon (you know about that one)
- HRE (tough start with loads of hard battles but gets easy once you've managed to survive the first 100 years)

England, France, Elmos, Turkey and Spain are usually too easy after you've destroyed your "natural enemy" (usually in the first 20/30 years).

Italy can be fun but it's not really difficult.

Hungary is a bit plain IMHO and the many crusades crossing your land are annoying. More importantly, if you manage to grab Moldavia and kiev before the Byz, extension becomes rather easy and it's just time to wait for the GH. Poland is about the same and even a bit easier since the Byz are not that close.

Byz and Egypt, I have never seriously played cause each time the campaign got boring pretty fast.

[caravel]

I think I've played all the factions except Scicily - somehow they just don't appeal to me. I play a different faction each time, as I feel varity wins. There is one scenario that I keep returning to, though, and that is Byz in High.

The Byzantine (The Empire of Nicaea) in high makes for a very good campaign. When I eventually get to the High era in the mod I am working on it will be a one province faction. The Byzantine Early campaign is poor and predictable due to the huge number of Provinces. If you mod Lesser Armenia and Georgia rebel and give Naples to the Sicilians it improves things a bit but not enough. In reality the Byzantine are simply overpowered, with super full size bodyguard units and 8 or 9 command star royalty. Their faction leader also gets a 2 point influence and 1 point command star bonus in addition to this.

As to the Sicilians, I find them to be an interesting faction to play. You should give them a go. Some very early crusades are possible.

[Fagar]

I would have to say I like the Spanish the best.
They have a decent starting position in which to build farmlands and trades but have to conquer and keep under control the independant portuguese.
They have the constant threat of the Almohads who can get very big very fast and the AUM are frightening to face early in the game.
French and English forces not far away are very expansionist especially if they are not fighting each other.
I love the Spanish Cav and in the late period their heavy Cav is just sublime!

Following a close second are the Turks. Again decent but challenging starting position with the Eggies and the Byzzies all around and the ever present threat of having to be fully established before the Horde arrive.
I love the Turks because of their unit roster. I enjoy the variety and the sheer power of their troops in the late period. Takes a lot of teching up but is ultimately worth it and by then you can reap swift justice from your centuries of being repressed under the might of the Egyptians and the Byzantium empires. Using your now nearly unstopable JHI, Futuwwa's and Sipahis as specialty troops to crush your opponents.

[chris34au]

Serbia or Armenia - I'd say you can't go wrong. Why not check which of those provinces has the highest starting income and the best farmland potential? It seems like your starting economy really matters to you. You've mentioned it twice.

I haven't played Serbia for a while but I think this is true. If you play high period, then Greece and Constantinople are rebel held and open to bribery if you move fast before anyone else gets them. Boosts the size of your rather small starting army and hugely increases your income without a fight.

it's not a *huge* deal but i do like to be close to iron and a lot of trade resources, if possible. when playing as someone like Bohemia, it can be pretty challenging trying to manage your economy without running out of florins early in the game(unless you bribe Flanders or go to war early)

[chris34au]

The Byzantine (The Empire of Nicaea) in high makes for a very good campaign. When I eventually get to the High era in the mod I am working on it will be a one province faction. The Byzantine Early campaign is poor and predictable due to the huge number of Provinces. If you mod Lesser Armenia and Georgia rebel and give Naples to the Sicilians it improves things a bit but not enough. In reality the Byzantine are simply overpowered, with super full size bodyguard units and 8 or 9 command star royalty. Their faction leader also gets a 2 point influence and 1 point command star bonus in addition to this.

As to the Sicilians, I find them to be an interesting faction to play. You should give them a go. Some very early crusades are possible.

i started a Byz campaign in High awhile back and loved it. i really wish that there was a way to start an Early campaign with Constantinople as your only province. even if it's not historically accurate, it seems like it'd be a lot more challenging than starting out with so many provinces.

[Tristrem]

I've always enjoyed a campaign as the french, and the english are not that bad either. In vanilla i enjoyed a early Russian camp. I also really enjoyed the vanilla italian camp, no matter how inaccurate that faction is historically. I've also enjoyed campaigns as the turks or the egyptians.

However my favorite has to be either the turks, russians or the english.

[Roark]

I'm with Fagar as far as the Turks are concerned. They have a dynamic and exciting unit roster which fares well in all terrains (including the desert), and you literally have the opportunity to run rings around your opponents.

Turks in High era.

Other than that, I would definitely recommend the Armenians or Volga-Bulgarians for a real challenge.

[Brandy Blue]

In vanilla i enjoyed a early Russian camp.

Its been a while since I played vanilla, but I thought there was no early Russian option, only an unplayable People of Novgorod. Perhaps you meant something else?

[Don Esteban]

I really enjoyed two campaigns, Armenia (take antioch and Tripoli and your economy is great) and Bohemia - penned in, limited cash but so many options on which way to expand and a different game every time. Also i've just returned to the French on GA and am enjoying it although I do find the unit choice a little dull on early.

[Gyrfalcon]

I would repeat recommendations for the Teutonic Order and Sicily. They are by no means the hardest factions, but both are very good fun. The Order lends itself well to a touch of role-play, while with Sicily you can strike at anywhere in the Mediterranean, while having a protected homeland.

[Fagar]

Yes the Sicilians are fun to play.
You can sit back safe and secure on your islands and watch what is happenning in the world.
Pick your targets when they are weakened and strike.
I do not play as the Sicilians very often but when I do it is not uncommom for me to end up with little pockets of my faction in 4-5 places and then the challenge becomes uniting them all and fighting for loyalty and security because of the isolaion of my outremer territories.

[Lokiss]

Denmark.

[chris34au]

can you build Italian Light Infantry and Gothic Units with Sicily? i' i've never tried Sicily or Genoa but i really liked Venice. the only thing that i hated about Venice was the Crusades constantly passing through there. it seems like it wouldn't be nearly as bad with Sicily.

[Gyrfalcon]

Unfortunately you cannot; Sicily gets the basic Catholic unit roster. They have a slightly more interesting roster in XL, but their best point is that you can pursue almost any strategy with them.

[chris34au]

Unfortunately you cannot; Sicily gets the basic Catholic unit roster. They have a slightly more interesting roster in XL, but their best point is that you can pursue almost any strategy with them.

thanks. i wasn't really sure. i'd started a campaign with Sicily awhile back and i noticed that after i built a castle, i still couldn't train Italian Infantry but i wasn't sure if it was because i needed to build something else(spearmaker's guild) or if it was because Sicily couldn't train them.

[Fagar]

Imo give them another go.
The standard catholic roster still has plenty of versatility and with Sicily you just never know where you will end up on the map.
Last time I played with them I had ships all over the seas and couldn't resist the tempation to invade into Scotland and Ireland and work my way down.
So eventually I was a Sicilian king with heaps of Clansmen and Gallow-glasses pushing the English out of their comfort zone of their own Isles.
great fun.

[JR-]

i can't stop playing as the english, though byzantium is fun.

[Brandy Blue]

can you build Italian Light Infantry and Gothic Units with Sicily? i' i've never tried Sicily or Genoa but i really liked Venice. the only thing that i hated about Venice was the Crusades constantly passing through there. it seems like it wouldn't be nearly as bad with Sicily.

Can I persuade you to try the Gnome editor? I think you can download it from here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local...=n&pp=5&page=6

Its easy to use, and you can make any units you want available to whoever you want. Just back up any file before you change it, just in case. Matter of fact, I might try Sicily modded for ILI and Gothic units myself.

[chris34au]

Imo give them another go.
The standard catholic roster still has plenty of versatility and with Sicily you just never know where you will end up on the map.
Last time I played with them I had ships all over the seas and couldn't resist the tempation to invade into Scotland and Ireland and work my way down.
So eventually I was a Sicilian king with heaps of Clansmen and Gallow-glasses pushing the English out of their comfort zone of their own Isles.
great fun.

LOL that does sound like fun. i started a campaign with Serbia last night and it seemed to be going really well, until Hungary invaded Serbia when i was busy defending Venice. i was only about 15 years into the campaign, so i kinda lost interest after that. i'm still not very good with the factions that have bows in their royal guard or whatever. i like Boyers but the Carska Guarda units in early don't seem very effective. if they were 40 man units, it seems like they'd be a lot better.