The Irish are Not Celts

[oudysseos]

I'm glad that cmacq has had a look at the study as I read it twice and reached the same conclusion but had no confidence in the value of my own opinion. I do wonder, cmacq, what you think a good label would be for the Irish?

I did just want to say to Riastradh that I have enjoyed this thread immensely, even though I disagree that Gael is a better term (than Celt) to describe the inhabitants of Ireland in 272 BCE. It has been a popular thread (and I hope it's not dead yet) with a lots of replies and views, so well done!

[cmacq]

I do wonder, cmacq, what you think a good label would be for the Irish?

With all do respect and not to sound flippant, but the word ‘Irish’ has always worked for me. In fact it seems to have been common to name Islands and the associated inhabitances after a particular deity. For example we have Skye, Latin Scitis or Scetis, which is clearly a reference to Scathach (shadowy one), the warrior goddess. Then the Orkneys, Latin Orcades, possibly associated with an underworld goddess. Others include the isle of Lewis, in Latin Danu, of the Tuatha Dé Danann; Mull, Latin Malaius, possibly associated with Mil. So the Greeks called Ireland Ἰουερνία and Ἰέρνη which appears to represent īwerion, a reference to the goddess Erin.



CmacQ

[Disciple of Tacitus]

Now I've been absent from the EB forums for a few months now. In truth, a bit turned off by what I saw as self-serving folks bashing other folks. You may wish to replace folks with other choice words. However, the biggest reason - to be honest - was b/c my computer crashed big time and to date I am still without it. When you don't play the game, sometimes the forum loses it's pull. I happened across this thread by chance and was reminded of why I love this game and have for years now.
This conversation - for the most part - has been informative and interesting. Thanks for pulling a lost EBer back into it.

[blitzkrieg80]

With all do respect and not to sound flippant, but the word ‘Irish’ has always worked for me. In fact it seems to have been common to name Islands and the association inhabitances after a particular deity. For example we have Skye, Latin Scitis or Scetis, which is clearly a reference to Scathach (shadowy one), the warrior goddess. Then the Orkneys, Latin Orcades, possibly associated with an underworld goddess. Others include the isle of Lewis, in Latin Danu, of the Tuatha Dé Danann; Mull, Latin Malaius, possibly associated with Mil. So the Greeks called Ireland Ἰουερνία and Ἰέρνη which appears to represent īwerion, a reference to the goddess Erin.



CmacQ

so... Orcish it is

[cmacq]

The only way that the claims of the McEvoy study could match the data on Figure 3, is that their key info, is incorrect. In this case the black circles would represent the Irish data and the White ones the 8,000 plus individuals of the comparative sample. However, clearly this is not what the key says. The problem is the value (n=?) of the individual circles is not displayed so there is no way of checking this, short of contacting the authors.





CmacQ

[LuciusCorneliusSulla]

To throw my own theory on the table:

Irish Wales and Scotland all have a common characteristic in classical history.
They were never fully conquered by the romans.
Meaning they never had the same genetic diversity, nor the european mixed blood (to the same degree)

Now lets take all the rest of celtic europe that these researchers are talking about.
They were conquered by the romans.
They did receive mixed european blood mingling.

Answer - the current European blood being compared to the Irish blood OBVIOUSLY doesnt match, its been through 2000 years of diversification.

As an Irishman I can tell you that any research done in my country can be taken with a pinch of salt. The researchers probably had a heavy night the night before and came up with this bafflingly ignorant theory nursing a hangover and a heavily fortified coffee....

[LuciusCorneliusSulla]

I might add that art, history and the basic literature in the form of poetry etc. of this period markedly mirrors Celtic influence

[oudysseos]

I do have to point out, LCS, that there is very little evidence of Roman genetic material in the English gene pool. This somewhat invalidates your dichotomy.
Even the Normans have only 2 %, according to Stephen Oppenheimer. For a good overview of the situation you might want to take a look at his book The Origins of the British.