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Thread: Did you help ruin the world?

  1. #151
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Some scientist pitch the idea that "global warming" can cause international disaster, they get air-time for this doom-and-gloom scenario they create. Other scientists figure that they can get in on the action by "studying" global warming, producing "green technologies", etc. So they run experiments, tests, models, studies, all funded to prevent the great disaster of "global warming".

    People start to pay money for this "global warming" gear, especially when they notice warmer temperatures. Solar panels, green technology, new books about how to prevent global warming, reduce global warming. Books that tell you every thing you're doing wrong. The media continues this cycle, since more "unusual weather events" means more people watch for a confirmation of their fears.
    "Nietzsche is dead" - God

    "I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96

    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  2. #152
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Why would mass hysteria need a motive. And why would lobbyists want political power, well that one is somewhat easier. These lobbies are as powerful now as the catholic church was during the dark ages that's why they get away with this.
    If by "these lobbies" you mean Oil Companies, then yes you are absolutely correct.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  3. #153
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Banquo's Ghost View Post
    Personally, I consider septics to be poisonous.

    It depends how they're prepared.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  4. #154
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    If by "these lobbies" you mean Oil Companies, then yes you are absolutely correct.

  5. #155
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Well argued...
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  6. #156
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Well argued...
    In case you hadn't noticed, your case is on the defend, so, defend. Something to do with consensus if I remember correctly (which would be a small miracle to forget given the number of times I have heard that there is consensus). Of course oil company's also lobby, and the pope is a catholic ice is cold and water is wet.

  7. #157

    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Why would mass hysteria need a motive. And why would lobbyists want political power, well that one is somewhat easier. These lobbies are as powerful now as the catholic church was during the dark ages that's why they get away with this.
    No wait, so let me get this right, there's this lobbyist block that's pushing global warming just for the fun of creating chaos? and they have the power to sway all these scientist to put out research supporting them without any major funding, am I getting this right?

    Yes, there's been a trend to bring up global warming in the media recently and yes the world will not end because of global warming. Humanity will probably come out in pretty good shape too; but a few alarmist scientists does not invalidate the rest of the research.
    Last edited by Lord Winter; 12-22-2008 at 10:24.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  8. #158
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Winter View Post
    No wait, so let me get this right, there's this lobbyist block that's pushing global warming just for the fun of creating chaos?
    How would I know I'm not doing it. A$k them. I am pretty $ure Al Gore can an$wer your que$tion though being the little hermit that he is.

  9. #159

    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Al Gore isn't the entire force behind global warming you know.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  10. #160
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Winter View Post
    Al Gore isn't the entire force behind global warming you know.
    Nope that volleyballboy isn't, hence them

  11. #161

    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    I have a feeling theres eaiser ways to make money then to fabricate global warming.
    Last edited by Lord Winter; 12-22-2008 at 20:44.
    When it occurs to a man that nature does not regard him as important and that she feels she would not maim the universe by disposing of him, he at first wishes to throw bricks at the temple, and he hates deeply the fact that there are no bricks and no temples
    -Stephen Crane

  12. #162
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Winter View Post
    Fixed the mispelling, my spelling skills have never been good.
    Didn't mean to single you out for the malapropism, but it was a classic Yogism, and I hope you realize BG & I were laughing with you not at you.

    However, on the topic of the controversy surrounding global warning. The summary for the book "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton gives one something to think about. The bibliography & summary are better than the story itself.

    As a result of potential conflicts of interest, the scientists conducting research on topics related to global warming may subtly change their findings to bring them in line with their funding sources.
    The above quote from the summary works both ways, pro & con, on the debate over man's effects on global warming. It's highly politicized and there's money to be made. Considering human nature that in itself makes me septical skeptical till we learn more.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  13. #163
    Banned ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Idaho View Post
    Ok - so we all now agree that Bush was a disaster, that the Iraq invasion was a disaster and that man made climate change is going to screw us over.

    So did you vote for Bush, support the war and refuse to believe in climate change?


    I did.... But I still believe the Iraqi war was and still is needed, Bush isn't the best President, but not a total screw up. And for Climate change?....


    There was a ice age before, and humans weren't around then, were they?


    The world is in hell, just getting deeper. I pretend I don't notice .

  14. #164
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Strange thread, usually American always save the world. ESPECIALLY europe.

  15. #165
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    Strange thread, usually American always save the world.
    I lol'ed.

    Oh Boyar Son, I have missed you and your blind Nationalism.
    Last edited by CountArach; 12-23-2008 at 01:01.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  16. #166
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    Strange thread, usually American always save the world. ESPECIALLY europe.
    It's kinda like the fireman who sets fires then becomes the hero who puts them out.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  17. #167
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I lol'ed.

    Oh Boyar Son, I have missed you and your blind Nationalism.
    its a religion


    It's kinda like the fireman who sets fires then becomes the hero who puts them out.
    yes we started the yugoslav war in the 90'z, WW1, WW2, korea, the spanish war ! NATO is DEFINITELY warmongering for the hell of it, what else can a superpower be blamed on just because they're top?

  18. #168
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    yes we started the yugoslav war in the 90'z, WW1, WW2, korea, the spanish war ! NATO is DEFINITELY warmongering for the hell of it, what else can a superpower be blamed on just because they're top?
    NATO didn't exist until post-WWII... Besides NATO really just follows the US.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  19. #169
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    NATO didn't exist until post-WWII... Besides NATO really just follows the US.
    ?? wat does its existence date have to do with blaming USA. and u pointed out the 2nd sentence bkuz?..

  20. #170
    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    and u pointed out the 2nd sentence bkuz?..
    Could be because you are indisputably correct on everything else.

  21. #171
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    ?? wat does its existence date have to do with blaming USA. and u pointed out the 2nd sentence bkuz?..
    I pointed it out bkuz...
    You say that NATO was warmongering.
    So...
    I point out that NATO didn't exist for 3/5 of the wars you mentioned (WWI, WWII and the Spanish Civil War).
    Then...
    I point out that the NATO comparison is superfluous and not important at all because NATO largely follows US foreign policy.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  22. #172
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    I pointed it out bkuz...
    You say that NATO was warmongering.
    So...
    I point out that NATO didn't exist for 3/5 of the wars you mentioned (WWI, WWII and the Spanish Civil War).
    Then...
    I point out that the NATO comparison is superfluous and not important at all because NATO largely follows US foreign policy.
    Those wars were mentioned because we're talking about USA, THEREFORE i mention NATO, THIS MEANS since u said nato follows USA, WE CAN SEE that US conflicts involve the help of NATO too.

    WHAT does THAT mean? all that? USA (and nato) has been involved in quite a few conflicts in modern times. which is why i said warmongering, to poke fun at soviets who have an obvious hatred for NATO.

    i HAD to add up all that in the 1st sentence so u could understand the 2nd. nato primarily in modern wars, usa primarily farther in the past conflicts.

  23. #173
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    Those wars were mentioned because we're talking about USA, THEREFORE i mention NATO, THIS MEANS since u said nato follows USA, WE CAN SEE that US conflicts involve the help of NATO too.

    WHAT does THAT mean? all that? USA (and nato) has been involved in quite a few conflicts in modern times. which is why i said warmongering, to poke fun at soviets who have an obvious hatred for NATO.

    i HAD to add up all that in the 1st sentence so u could understand the 2nd. nato primarily in modern wars, usa primarily farther in the past conflicts.
    Yet you completely ignore the statement that NATO is a tool of US Foreign policy...
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  24. #174
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Yet you completely ignore the statement that NATO is a tool of US Foreign policy...
    Right up until the wheels came off the cart, the Warsaw Pact nations did what they were told by the Bear. On the rare occasions that they made a complaint, they got squashed.

    I freely admit that the USA was trying to be the lead voice of NATO, almost treating it like a puppy at times, but NATO never did lock step quite so clearly with the USA as the Pact did for the CCCP.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 12-23-2008 at 05:54.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  25. #175
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Right up until the wheels came off the cart, the Warsaw Pact nations did what they were told by the Bear. On the rare occasions that they made a complaint, they got squashed.

    I freely admit that the USA was trying to be the lead voice of NATO, almost treating it like a puppy at times, but NATO never did lock step quite so clearly with the USA as the Pact did for the CCCP.
    Yes, I absolutely agree. Yet, nevertheless, NATO only goes to war when the US does and often on the pretence of supporting the United States.
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

  26. #176
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    I can't help but laugh at the alarmists who refuse to believe anyone or anything that contradicts their faith in man made global warming. It truly is a religion.

    Now I haven't read the whole thread and so I don't know if this has been posted, but here's an excerpt of a Michael Crichton speech dealing with "consensus science":
    I want to pause here and talk about this notion of consensus, and the rise of what has been called consensus science. I regard consensus science as an extremely pernicious development that ought to be stopped cold in its tracks. Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you're being had.

    Let's be clear: the work of science has nothing whatever to do with consensus. Consensus is the business of politics. Science, on the contrary, requires only one investigator who happens to be right, which means that he or she has results that are verifiable by reference to the real world. In science consensus is irrelevant. What is relevant is reproducible results. The greatest scientists in history are great precisely because they broke with the consensus.

    There is no such thing as consensus science. If it's consensus, it isn't science. If it's science, it isn't consensus. Period.

    In addition, let me remind you that the track record of the consensus is nothing to be proud of. Let's review a few cases.

    In past centuries, the greatest killer of women was fever following childbirth . One woman in six died of this fever. In 1795, Alexander Gordon of Aberdeen suggested that the fevers were infectious processes, and he was able to cure them. The consensus said no. In 1843, Oliver Wendell Holmes claimed puerperal fever was contagious, and presented compelling evidence. The consensus said no. In 1849, Semmelweiss demonstrated that sanitary techniques virtually eliminated puerperal fever in hospitals under his management. The consensus said he was a Jew, ignored him, and dismissed him from his post. There was in fact no agreement on puerperal fever until the start of the twentieth century. Thus the consensus took one hundred and twenty five years to arrive at the right conclusion despite the efforts of the prominent "skeptics" around the world, skeptics who were demeaned and ignored. And despite the constant ongoing deaths of women.

    There is no shortage of other examples. In the 1920s in America, tens of thousands of people, mostly poor, were dying of a disease called pellagra. The consensus of scientists said it was infectious, and what was necessary was to find the "pellagra germ." The US government asked a brilliant young investigator, Dr. Joseph Goldberger, to find the cause. Goldberger concluded that diet was the crucial factor. The consensus remained wedded to the germ theory. Goldberger demonstrated that he could induce the disease through diet. He demonstrated that the disease was not infectious by injecting the blood of a pellagra patient into himself, and his assistant. They and other volunteers swabbed their noses with swabs from pellagra patients, and swallowed capsules containing scabs from pellagra rashes in what were called "Goldberger's filth parties." Nobody contracted pellagra. The consensus continued to disagree with him. There was, in addition, a social factor-southern States disliked the idea of poor diet as the cause, because it meant that social reform was required. They continued to deny it until the 1920s. Result-despite a twentieth century epidemic, the consensus took years to see the light.

    Probably every schoolchild notices that South America and Africa seem to fit together rather snugly, and Alfred Wegener proposed, in 1912, that the continents had in fact drifted apart. The consensus sneered at continental drift for fifty years. The theory was most vigorously denied by the great names of geology-until 1961, when it began to seem as if the sea floors were spreading. The result: it took the consensus fifty years to acknowledge what any schoolchild sees.

    And shall we go on? The examples can be multiplied endlessly. Jenner and smallpox, Pasteur and germ theory. Saccharine, margarine, repressed memory, fiber and colon cancer, hormone replacement therapy…the list of consensus errors goes on and on.

    Finally, I would remind you to notice where the claim of consensus is invoked. Consensus is invoked only in situations where the science is not solid enough. Nobody says the consensus of scientists agrees that E=mc2. Nobody says the consensus is that the sun is 93 million miles away. It would never occur to anyone to speak that way.
    Seamus brings up a good point - why must we adhere to 1800 temperatures even if the earth is naturally moving away from that? Might not our actions to force a solution on the global climate have far reaching unintended consequences?

    CR
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  27. #177
    Spirit King Senior Member seireikhaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    The inherent problem with trying to decipher anything on global warming is that both "sides" have poisoned both their opponent's well, and, at times, their own well too.

    Global warming a myth to you- those darned NASA folks following Al Gore's whims.

    Global warming real to you- that darned George trying to intimidate scientists for his own political gain.
    It is better to conquer yourself than to win a thousand battles. Then, the victory is yours. It cannot be taken from you, not by angels or by demons, heaven or hell.

  28. #178
    Guest Boyar Son's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by CountArach View Post
    Yet you completely ignore the statement that NATO is a tool of US Foreign policy...
    WTF??? as long as we make dumb inquiries that were actually implied how bout "THE FACT U IGNORED DIDNT MENTION NATO DIDNT EXIST 4 HALF THE WARS I SAID"

    take THAT

  29. #179
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    Seamus brings up a good point - why must we adhere to 1800 temperatures even if the earth is naturally moving away from that? Might not our actions to force a solution on the global climate have far reaching unintended consequences?

    CR
    Why a small temperature span is preferable is quite simple. If you were living at the end of the latest ice age, then after it ended it a generally better climate than before. That is of course if you didn't live at the beach as the water level rose more than 100 meters.

    Isn't the second line a kind of oxymyron? If our actions is to limit our own impact (who according to the sceptics are none), how would this have unintended consequences?

    Now if we would develop a system for controlling the global temperature, then it could have such consequences, but that's far into the future.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  30. #180
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did you help ruin the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boyar Son View Post
    WTF??? as long as we make dumb inquiries that were actually implied how bout "THE FACT U IGNORED DIDNT MENTION NATO DIDNT EXIST 4 HALF THE WARS I SAID"

    take THAT
    Take what? My own point?
    Rest in Peace TosaInu, the Org will be your legacy
    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Blum - For All Mankind
    Nothing established by violence and maintained by force, nothing that degrades humanity and is based on contempt for human personality, can endure.

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