Results 1 to 30 of 33

Thread: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Re : Re: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Well, you and I are in agreement as to the role of leadership on this. ANYTHING that dehumanizes the group you are trying to protect is likely to be counterproductive to a protection mission. If US troops have such sentiments on peace-keeping missions, I suspect our leadership cadre would be a bit more assiduous in showing that -- officially at least -- such attitudes will not be countenanced. It's simply not professional. Dutch leadership should have done that much, at least, or opted out of the mission.
    I completely agree, such things should not be tolerated at all, I'd even say the leadership should make some soldiers remove that from the walls.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Re : Re: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I completely agree, such things should not be tolerated at all, I'd even say the leadership should make some soldiers remove that from the walls.
    first picture, that would be a menu, and unlike the bloggers claim porn isn't served.
    second picture, eh nothing at all?
    third, not nice but seen worse on the doors of the restroom at my university.
    Fourth, you can read, it's from a movie.
    5th, what's the bloody problem???
    6th, same
    7th, not nice, but again common geez.
    8th, 9th, 10th, ehhh, am I missing something significant?
    11th, a poem about growing up.
    2 more wth is wrong with this.
    After that a timetable. I guess the blogger wants me to say schedule.
    After that, what are really talking about? XXX PICTURES it says sex-bar omg.
    And then finally the doomsday-picture that started it all.
    Last edited by Fragony; 12-24-2008 at 15:17.

  3. #3
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,315

    Default Re: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Sarmatian:

    Interesting Post -- and a good read.
    You mean, like all my posts :D

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    The Breakup of Yugoslavia was never a specific goal of U.S. foreign policy -- but a lot of crud happens as a byproduct of our efforts even when unintended.
    I may have used the wrong wording. I don't think that there was a full-fledged plan to breakup Yugoslavia. It wasn't really about Yugoslavia, it was about Nato-Soviet sphere of influence. If you look at the map of Europe at the time, Nato countries completely blocked Soviets to the Mediterranean. But, with Yugoslavia in SU or at least in their sphere of influence, Soviets get major ports in the Adriatic and thus access to the Mediterranean, which would have had a major effect on defense plan. Turkey and Greece were reliable, Yugoslavia wasn't. After Tito's death there was no guarantee what Yugoslavia would do. So, the goal was spreading NATO/US/Western influence (however you want to call it) and limiting Soviet/Russian influence. Breaking up Yugoslavia was done because of that. I'm not saying that it's all about foreign influence. After all, if the country was united and stable that would hardly be possible. But the country was on the edge of a cliff, it just needed a push. West provided that push fully knowingly its consequences, not by mistake.

    It is also important to look at a broader perspective. Looking at Bosnia alone isn't enough. Bosnia and the entire breakup of Yugoslavia was a bit hectic and fast and at first glance it may appear that at all happened so fast that no one could influence the outcome. But if we look at it in conjunction with Kosovo in 1998-1999 it is much easier to notice a pattern. Kosovo is much more a clear case. There was no ethnic cleansing there, no mass murders, no genocide. There were human right violations but nothing that would warrant a full scale attack. I think this is common knowledge now, so there is no need for additional links. And yet, someone took the trouble to stage the massacre in Racak, then to hold peace deals where the main point was to make demands so great the Serbia must refuse. And everything supposedly in the name of stopping ethnic cleansing and human right violations. After the war, there were hundreds of time bigger ethnic cleansing and human rights violations, this time right in the front of thousands of Nato soldiers. Nothing was done to prevent it and in 2008 Kosovo was welcomed as a democratic nation. For me that pretty much rules out ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and similar excuses. So, in the manner of Sherlock Holmes, when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth, I can not come to a different conclusion based on these facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh View Post
    Merry Christmas to you, whether you celebrate it on the 25th or on the 6th of next.
    It's on the 6th, but it's the intent that counts here, the date is not important ;). Thank you. Likewise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat View Post
    I would say that you are reversing cause and effect. There was no Western / American masterplan to split Yugoslavia. To put it unfriendly: Yugoslavia was not considered important enough for that. Diminishing the might of Serbia was not a political goal of the US. The NATO and UN bases are the result of a wish to protect and stabilise former Yugoslavia, not the end result of premiditated master plan for control. It is lingering Serbian nationalistic propaganda, reinforced by Western decisions later during the wars, when the Serbians took the brunt of Western policies based on Western annoyance and frustration.

    There was little foreign agitation pre-break-up. But there were genocides, etnic cleansings and rampant nationalism thoughout former Yugoslavia. In response to this, foreign interventions took place. Some unfortunate, some unfair, and some long overdue.
    For reply on the first part of the post, look at my reply to Seamus.

    Considering lingering propaganda, look below.

    It's always hard to accept these things. Believe me I know. Unlike Brenus, you didn't see it all with your own eyes and I'm fully aware that several posts can't change your opinion that's been forming for years under constant stream of wrong information. Not just yours, anyone would act the same. I had to deal with the fact the my side isn't always the good side, and it wasn't easy thing to overcome, especially when you''re bombarded from all side with info that says it is. It's a hard and slow process but there's progress. If I had written that exact same post in 1999 or 2000 on a forum where most members are from western Europe or North America, I would have been laughed at, called a rabid nationalist, barbarian, troll, spammer, idiot, retard or in most cases totally ignored as one of those things, maybe even get banned from the forum. Now there's a discussion at least. It took time but finally some people have freed their mind enough not to outright dismiss the other point of view. Yeah, it is unfortunate, unfair and long overdue but I'm glad that it is happening, however small the change is...

    Merry Christmas, mon ami...
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 12-24-2008 at 19:50.

  4. #4
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: Re : Re: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    [...]what's the bloody problem???
    You could also ask what's the bloody point of smearing nonsense on other peoples' walls?

    Provocation.

    And provocation is not the bloody point of their bloody mission and if they can't bloody behave themselves they can bloody remove their own bloody smearings from other bloody peoples' bloody walls!

    Clear enough?


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  5. #5
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: Re : Re: Bosnian Girl! Yugoslavia revisited

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    You could also ask what's the bloody point of smearing nonsense on other peoples' walls?

    Provocation.

    And provocation is not the bloody point of their bloody mission and if they can't bloody behave themselves they can bloody remove their own bloody smearings from other bloody peoples' bloody walls!

    Clear enough?
    Not nearly, it's just some silly grafitti I find what this blogger tries to implicate rather disgusting. Of course they can't remove it they were too busy running remember.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO