Virginity Pledges are NOT effective (yes I know the sky is blue)

[Megas Methuselah]

I also had a friend who had bible thumping parents. He honestly didn't know that a latex condom was effective in combating STDs. I wanted to cry when he told me this.

You don't have Sex Education in your barbaric land?

[LittleGrizzly]

Im fairly sure almost all americans do... with possibly the exception of one or two states...

I think some parents are allowed to opt thier children out of sex ed, and by kush's description of his parents they possibly could very well had done that...

[HoreTore]

Sex ed or not doesn't matter. The thing is, that you have one group of people saying condoms work, then you have another group of people saying they don't. That will of course lead to some people believing the lie.

[Mooks]

Sex ed or not doesn't matter. The thing is, that you have one group of people saying condoms work, then you have another group of people saying they don't. That will of course lead to some people believing the lie.

Or they want to avoid the subject all together for "abstinence". Of course numerous studies show it doesnt work, but these arent the kind of people that look to studies and those annoying "facts" in the first place (I.E fundamentalist christrians).

[LittleGrizzly]

Or they want to avoid the subject all together for "abstinence". Of course numerous studies show it doesnt work, but these arent the kind of people that look to studies and those annoying "facts" in the first place (I.E fundamentalist christrians).

Its like the fossil record and carbon dating and lots of other tricks... by the devil! only those true of faith see through the lies! ;)

[Lorenzo_H]

I will accept the first part of that sentence...but the second part seems to be fiction at the very least...

Hate to contradict you, but while I have in the past given it (and since regretted it, not because it wasn't enjoyable, but for reasons I have expressed in earlier posts), the number of times I have refused to receive oral sex is more than I can count in my head. I am male, before you ask. There are certainly a lot of people who don't like receiving it, I know others as well.

The reason I don't do it is because honestly, I hate the idea of reducing a girl to that. I would feel almost bestial. I wouldn't feel good about making a girl I like do me such a menial favour. The amount of girls I have known who were abused by that whole system of thinking and the whole cycle and culture is very painful for me to recall. Who knows, maybe I shall do it in future, hopefully when I am committed to someone for life.

[rasoforos]

The reason I don't do it is because honestly, I hate the idea of reducing a girl to that. I would feel almost bestial. I wouldn't feel good about making a girl I like do me such a menial favour.

Its good to have a clear cut idea of why you do/dont want to do something. However I do not understand why you would feel this way.

Why should you think that a girl is 'reduced' by giving oral sex?

There is no 'shame' in sex. Two adults agree to have fun and as long as they both enjoy anything goes. Society fills us with all that 'shame' mumbo jumbo when we are young.

Why is it a menial favour? Your partner wants to do something to please you and sometimes pleasing your other half without expecting something in return is much better than the greatest sex ever. Its Altruistic and not menial.

As far as 'bestial' . Far from it, its very human, no animal does it ( I think)

[Ronin]

Its good to have a clear cut idea of why you do/dont want to do something. However I do not understand why you would feel this way.

Why should you think that a girl is 'reduced' by giving oral sex?

There is no 'shame' in sex. Two adults agree to have fun and as long as they both enjoy anything goes. Society fills us with all that 'shame' mumbo jumbo when we are young.

Why is it a menial favour? Your partner wants to do something to please you and sometimes pleasing your other half without expecting something in return is much better than the greatest sex ever. Its Altruistic and not menial.

As far as 'bestial' . Far from it, its very human, no animal does it ( I think)

Quoted....For.....Truth....

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Neither are contraceptives. Only partially. The same for head start. But it 0 effect after a few years. Now I hear the FEDS want to make pre school mandatory.

[Lorenzo_H]

Its good to have a clear cut idea of why you do/dont want to do something. However I do not understand why you would feel this way.

Why should you think that a girl is 'reduced' by giving oral sex?

There is no 'shame' in sex. Two adults agree to have fun and as long as they both enjoy anything goes. Society fills us with all that 'shame' mumbo jumbo when we are young.

Why is it a menial favour? Your partner wants to do something to please you and sometimes pleasing your other half without expecting something in return is much better than the greatest sex ever. Its Altruistic and not menial.

As far as 'bestial' . Far from it, its very human, no animal does it ( I think)

Ever since a guy who forced a girl, who I am good friends with, to do it, I cannot even contemplate it. I guess my mentality is very particular, because of my own experiences; I just don't want to remind any girl of that kind of guy. I have a fixation that by doing it, it will give the impression, subconciously, that I am with the girl only for physical action, and that her worth to me is determined by that.

[rasoforos]

Ever since a guy who forced a girl, who I am good friends with, to do it, I cannot even contemplate it. I guess my mentality is very particular, because of my own experiences; I just don't want to remind any girl of that kind of guy. I have a fixation that by doing it, it will give the impression, subconciously, that I am with the girl only for physical action, and that her worth to me is determined by that.

I understand. It does you credit to be so concerned. However, just because one man is a total , it does not mean that girls will associate you with him. We cannot be held accountable for the sins of the whole male population. I see your point though.


Just a reminded. A woman's mouth is usually filled with razor sharp teeth. More than capable of punishing a guy who feels like forcing oral sex

[Lorenzo_H]

I understand. It does you credit to be so concerned. However, just because one man is a total , it does not mean that girls will associate you with him. We cannot be held accountable for the sins of the whole male population. I see your point though.


Just a reminded. A woman's mouth is usually filled with razor sharp teeth. More than capable of punishing a guy who feels like forcing oral sex

Granted, there is, thankfully, a large number of guys who aren't like that. This particular friend seemed to find more than her fair share of the s, because she is more than very attractive with an easily tricked, perhaps naive, personality. Hence, I've come across a few of them.

Its also not as simple as her being able to punish him like that. The whole psycology is really, really messed up, I can't even understand it. Because they guy who is enforcing the situation on the girl is always older, and therefore has more social status, he can make her do what he wants (with pressure, threats etc), and then get away with it after.

I will relate it to the topic, which is that I think abstenance from that lifestyle, and all the risks associated with it is a very respectable thing.

[LittleGrizzly]

Neither are contraceptives. Only partially. The same for head start. But it 0 effect after a few years. Now I hear the FEDS want to make pre school mandatory.

Yo G! :D

nice to see you around!

[Ja'chyra]

The average age in the US is 17???? Don't you have Bacardi Breezers over there.

If I had waited that long I'd have been humping random inanimate objects.

Originally Posted by Lorenzo_H
I made no such pledge, but have still managed to stay true to my Christian beliefs. I have it justified in my mind to wait until marriage, so thats basically what's keeping me going. Of course, being only 17 myself, I could well have to eat my words when I'm 21 or whatever, but I'm saying I've had quite a few offers of sex which I successfully turned down. And they weren't ugly girls either!

I served my apprenticeship with a guy that was awarded £50 for never taking a day off sick, he proceeded to boast about it until I pointed out that I had over a month off and it only cost me £50.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
Lots, actually, quite a few people don't like doing it and a significant number don't like recieving it either.

I had a girl that would give but didn't like receiving, there must have been a reason why I dumped her

[HoreTore]

I had a girl that would give but didn't like receiving, there must have been a reason why I dumped her

Sexual blocks in her head due to imagined taboo's. I blame the conservatives for that. Their public words that is - as evidenced by the number of scandals, they're very liberal and open-minded privately

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The average age in the US is 17???? Don't you have Bacardi Breezers over there.

The age of consent in most states is 16/17 (as are driving privileges enabling you to escape the immediate family after school hours). The drinking age is 21 and is more and more rigorously enforced.

At 18 years of age, you can, legally: vote to select individuals for Federal office, enlist to fight for your country, drive a multi-ton truck, and marry the significant other of your choice (in MA that isn't even restricted by physical sex).

However, you still could NOT buy a beer to drink with dinner nor (in most places) rent a car.

[HoreTore]

Uhm.....

You can have sex at any age. The age of consent is there to prevent adults exploiting children, say a 40-year old and a 13-year old. Two 13-year olds, or in other terms "roughly the same evolutionary stage", is still perfectly OK, of course...

[Vladimir]

I think that while virginity pledges don't prevent sex before marriage, in my mind, it does prevent girls from making stupid decisions concerning sex when they're between high-school and college. 21 isn't outta college, but you do have a college education and have a better chance of future employment rather than an 18-year old who just graduated from high school.

Which is really the point of the whole damn thing! In that regard they can be very effective.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Uhm.....

You can have sex at any age. The age of consent is there to prevent adults exploiting children, say a 40-year old and a 13-year old. Two 13-year olds, or in other terms "roughly the same evolutionary stage", is still perfectly OK, of course...

Umm, almost every country in the Western world dissagrees with that statement. I realise that in Norway sex is not taken as seriously as it is in some other places, but even so! Is it ok for a 13 year old to get pregnant?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Umm, almost every country in the Western world dissagrees with that statement. I realise that in Norway sex is not taken as seriously as it is in some other places, but even so! Is it ok for a 13 year old to get pregnant?

The morality of the modern world seems to be that if something is done with consent then it is completly fine.

[LittleGrizzly]

I have no objection to two 14 year olds having sex with each other if they want to, or at least i wouldn't press any kind of criminal charges against them, aslong as they are careful about it and its makes them both happy then i would be happy for them...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well in Britain two fourteen year olds are not considered competant to make that decision, granted, some are and I knew sexually active couples at that age. However, that doesn't make it a good idea for the majoriety and this is why we have a statute of Age of soncent.

Consider this, what if one of them is mentally competant (in fact, not law) and the other isn't? What's the difference between a 14 year old boy coercing an imature 14 year old girl and a 40 year old man? I don't think the 14 year old boy is any less predatory. With that in mind, I would say that charges should be brought on a case-by-case basis.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Consider this, what if one of them is mentally competant (in fact, not law) and the other isn't? What's the difference between a 14 year old boy coercing an imature 14 year old girl and a 40 year old man? I don't think the 14 year old boy is any less predatory. With that in mind, I would say that charges should be brought on a case-by-case basis.

True, it's pretty ridiculous when a 16 year old who slept with a 15 year old gets the same record as some old paedophile.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

True, it's pretty ridiculous when a 16 year old who slept with a 15 year old gets the same record as some old paedophile.

I believe I was saying the exact opposite. The law is there to protect those who are vulnerable, not withstanding that not everyone in that age group is vulnerable. With that in mind, charges should, as I said, be brought on a case by case basius, but the assumption should be to prosecute.

I knew the law when I was that age, so did everyone I went to school with.

[LittleGrizzly]

Well then you have problems defining what is unfair coercian or what is simply trying to convince someone to sleep with you, in the same way you can a 14 year old not mentally competent to make the decision you can have a 30 year old women not competant to make the decision. I would agree we should protect people in that manner, but that can be a factor at any age....

Though to get back to my main point, aslong as the 2 14year olds both want it (as in not coerced and both are competent), and are being careful about it then them having sexual relations is only a positive*...

* in terms of exercise, happiness ect.

True, it's pretty ridiculous when a 16 year old who slept with a 15 year old gets the same record as some old paedophile.

Agreed!

I have always though there should be at least a 2 year, or maybe a 3 year gap for a charge of peadophilia to be made, i knew a boy whose friend went on the sex offenders register for a video of a girl doing things with a lambringi (sp?) bottle, he was in the same school year as the girl!!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well then you have problems defining what is unfair coercian or what is simply trying to convince someone to sleep with you, in the same way you can a 14 year old not mentally competent to make the decision you can have a 30 year old women not competant to make the decision. I would agree we should protect people in that manner, but that can be a factor at any age....

This is true, but if we applied such thinking across the board then you can't actually do anything. So you draw a line in the sand, and if people cross it they are punished. We do the same with physical assault, homicide etc. There will always be unpleasent cases but the law is very clear

Though to get back to my main point, aslong as the 2 14year olds both want it (as in not coerced and both are competent), and are being careful about it then them having sexual relations is only a positive*...

* in terms of exercise, happiness ect.

Unless she gets pregnant, though that is hardly a certainty.

Agreed!

I have always though there should be at least a 2 year, or maybe a 3 year gap for a charge of peadophilia to be made, i knew a boy whose friend went on the sex offenders register for a video of a girl doing things with a lambringi (sp?) bottle, he was in the same school year as the girl!!

That would allow a 17 year old to have sex with a 14 year old, a 16 year old with 13, 15 with 12. Where would you stop?

[Moros]

That would allow a 17 year old to have sex with a 14 year old, a 16 year old with 13, 15 with 12. Where would you stop?

Not same school, same schoolyear he said.

Anyway personally I think the pledges are silly. But if it's someone who decides on his or her own to take such a pledge, then I respect it. But if it's the parents, then it's just stupid and rather pointless.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I believe I was saying the exact opposite. The law is there to protect those who are vulnerable, not withstanding that not everyone in that age group is vulnerable. With that in mind, charges should, as I said, be brought on a case by case basius, but the assumption should be to prosecute.

I knew the law when I was that age, so did everyone I went to school with.

I meant that a 16 year old can be at the same level of maturity as a 15 year old, therefore they should not be lumped with the real paedophiles, but judged on a case by case basis. So I was agreeing with you, I think. Oh well, now we can disagree about whether or not we disagree.

[HoreTore]

Consider this, what if one of them is mentally competant (in fact, not law) and the other isn't? What's the difference between a 14 year old boy coercing an imature 14 year old girl and a 40 year old man? I don't think the 14 year old boy is any less predatory. With that in mind, I would say that charges should be brought on a case-by-case basis.

The law is, that when two people are not of about the same level of maturity, the age of consent rules the day. If they are about the same, then it's free willy-time.

Note that the emphasis isn't on age, it's on level of maturity. That means that if one of them is mentally retarded, for example a 15-year old who is on the same level as a 7-year old, it would be criminal for another 15-year old to have sex with him/her.

2 13-year olds, a 13-year old and a 14-year old, 2 12-year olds, and so on is all good. Not a problem.

Anyway, how is it even possible to have the law differently? How on earth can the legal system punish kids for having sex? And which one of them gets the whip, which one is the "victim"? How can you tell, how can you be sure?

There is a thing called "free will". We encourage that thing here.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I meant that a 16 year old can be at the same level of maturity as a 15 year old, therefore they should not be lumped with the real paedophiles, but judged on a case by case basis. So I was agreeing with you, I think. Oh well, now we can disagree about whether or not we disagree.

Oh, ok, we agree.

Lokk everyone!

The law is, that when two people are not of about the same level of maturity, the age of consent rules the day. If they are about the same, then it's free willy-time.

Note that the emphasis isn't on age, it's on level of maturity. That means that if one of them is mentally retarded, for example a 15-year old who is on the same level as a 7-year old, it would be criminal for another 15-year old to have sex with him/her.

2 13-year olds, a 13-year old and a 14-year old, 2 12-year olds, and so on is all good. Not a problem.

Anyway, how is it even possible to have the law differently? How on earth can the legal system punish kids for having sex? And which one of them gets the whip, which one is the "victim"? How can you tell, how can you be sure?

There is a thing called "free will". We encourage that thing here.

How do you judge "level of maturaty"? If that's the law in Norway it is not the law here, or in America, or elsewhere. Though I think Canada has a similar system, they still have a legal threshold of 14, before which point you cannot consent.