Some joyous tidings from Israel

**Hooahguy** · 01-08-2009, 18:39

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

I feel the more pertinent issue is Israel doing it - irregardless of what a piece of paper states.

so basically you say its ok for hamas to do it, but you go all up in arms if israel is accused of doing it.

**Slyspy** · 01-08-2009, 18:43

Originally Posted by hooahguy

so basically you say its ok for hamas to do it, but you go all up in arms if israel is accused of doing it.

Err, yes. The reason why should be obvious.

**Hooahguy** · 01-08-2009, 18:45

Originally Posted by Slyspy

Err, yes. The reason why should be obvious.

the point is that if the reasons for outrage is humanitarian, you should be equally outraged at both sides.

**rory_20_uk** · 01-08-2009, 18:49

Originally Posted by hooahguy

what do you think the secondary explosions were within the facilities after the IDF hit it?
also happened with the mosque, which was turned into a weapons storage compound.

Do you have a link for that?

Originally Posted by hooahguy

the point is that if the reasons for outrage is humanitarian, you should be equally outraged at both sides.

How about a ratio of outrage based on purely the deaths caused in this current conflict as it's difficult to put a figure on the rest of the misery (treatable deaths due to destroyed infrastructure etc etc)

Palestinians: 700. Estimated over half civilian casualties
Israelis: under 20

**rvg** · 01-08-2009, 19:05

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

How about a ratio of outrage based on purely the deaths caused in this current conflict as it's difficult to put a figure on the rest of the misery (treatable deaths due to destroyed infrastructure etc etc)

Palestinians: 700. Estimated over half civilian casualties
Israelis: under 20

So, what exactly is your point here? Is Israel obligated to wait until Hamas evens out the body count in order to proceed with the military campaign?

**Papewaio** · 01-08-2009, 22:52

Originally Posted by rvg

So, what exactly is your point here? Is Israel obligated to wait until Hamas evens out the body count in order to proceed with the military campaign?

Both diplomacy and justice are based on reciprocity and proportional response. Israel can defend itself by all means.

They aren't a threat precisely because Israel does not *allow* them to become one. Every once in a while they require a proper whipping from the IDF in order to keep them in line.

You do realise that this 'proper whipping' is killing about a third children. First and foremost remember that all this collateral damage is human, adults and children, that the median age in Gaza is 17.

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 01-08-2009, 22:56

Out of the 758 dead the Palestinian MoH estimates about 350 dead. Hamas has also executed Palestinian civilians for "collaboration with Israel."

EDIT: And when complaining about the dead, stop mentioning the 758 figure, unless you believe that Israel shouldn't fire on militants.

EDIT II: This isn't directed against anybody in particular.

EDIT III: And those civilian deaths are almost impossible to avoid, because of the ways Hamas integrates with the civilian population.

**rvg** · 01-08-2009, 22:56

Originally Posted by Papewaio

Both diplomacy and justice are based on reciprocity and proportional response. Israel can defend itself by all means.

You do realise that this 'proper whipping' is killing about a third children. First and foremost remember that all this collateral damage is human, adults and children, that the median age in Gaza is 17.

Civilian casualties are regretable, but practically impossible to avoid.

**Hooahguy** · 01-08-2009, 21:09

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

Do you have a link for that?

thats just what i heard on the radio- how secondary explosions rocked the buildings.

**Slyspy** · 01-08-2009, 19:01

Originally Posted by hooahguy

the point is that if the reasons for outrage is humanitarian, you should be equally outraged at both sides.

Believe me I hold both sides equally in contempt. The fanatics on both sides are foolish, weak willed, short sighted and hateful people led by the vainglorious and the powerhungry. And the longer the conflict continues the greater their numbers swell.

The reasons that Israel comes in for more criticism than Hamas are numerous. Mostly it is because they are the Western democracy taking on the mantle of terror, whereas Hamas is the Arab terrorist outfit taking on the mantle of democracy. There is also an element of "us and them", whereby we see our own culture and values reflected in Israel and so are disappointed when she strays.

**rory_20_uk** · 01-08-2009, 18:44

Hamas isn't doing it. Israel is. That is the pertinent issue. I hope you can try not to infer bias in this again.

To humour you: no, I don't think Hamas should attack Israel and kill 700 and rising people, blow up buildings and cut off Israel's food and water. That would be bad. I don't think Hamas should have nukes either.

I don't think there should be a situation in Palestine where people in desperation vote for a group like Hamas.

**Incongruous** · 01-09-2009, 01:07

Originally Posted by hooahguy

so basically you say its ok for hamas to do it, but you go all up in arms if israel is accused of doing it.

Yes, an occupying colonial force invokes by its impressement upon the natives, a foreign and brutal rule, the natural consequence of bloody reprisal. You want to play conquest then you have to accept the terms.

Israel hs never held to any peace treaty, has constantly been warring upon the Palestinian people and is a rogue state of the most heinous sort. Thank god that their bank is going down, justice cannot be too far off.