Arguments for and against Creationism in American schools

[Askthepizzaguy]

Jolt, Shhhh.

Santa Claus exists, and he mated with the Tooth Fairy to give us Jesus. That's a scientific fact which can never be disproved. And when Jesus comes back to life and mates with the Easter Bunny, she will give birth to the four horsemen of the Apocalypse and all the sinners will go burn in hell as the Earth is being destroyed. Again, everyone knows this is scientific fact, and so-called "evolution" has ZERO evidence.

There's way more evidence for my theory. After all, look around you... didn't you see lots of evidence of Santa Claus this year? He was freakin' EVERYWHERE. My teeth kept disappearing when I was a kid. Jesus and Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are related, that's in the Bible somewhere in the back. So there's more proof here than evolution, which is just a bunch of nonsense. You can't prove anything by looking at rocks and examining the fossilized remains of creatures that God put there to test our faith. Furthermore, micro-evolution could never possibly be macro-evolution because history only started 6000 years ago, so there hasn't been enough time for it.

And Darwin makes baby Jesus cry. Be nice to Jesus.

[Papewaio]

If there ever comes a time when 1+1 does not equal 2, then the fundamental nature of the universe will have changed.

Change the base number to 2 and it no longer does.
1 + 1 = 10

Change from scalar addition to vector addition and again you have different answers.

1 + 1 <= 2 in magnitude.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But of course, I should have been more specific. 1+1 = 2 in base ten, and using scalar addition.

Then again, it could have been implied by the nontechnical use of addition in a forum not dedicated to mathematics. But I'll confirm the above.

In any case, 1 + 1 = 2, and 10 is equal to 2 in base 1. To be frank, you won't find a lot of vector addition in a casual conversation not generally pertaining to mathematics. So, I'll amend my previous assertion by saying 1 + 1 equals two unless you change the fundamental nature of the universe, or the fundamental nature of the discussion, which does not generally refer to vector addition, and is typically base ten by default unless otherwise stated.

[ajaxfetish]

Question: What hypothetical observations would disprove darwinism?

Fossil evidence of all modern and extinct species having existed simultaneously as far back as there is any evidence of life would do quite a number on Darwin.

Ajax

[Askthepizzaguy]

It would be a sad thing if Darwinism was false.

Think of it... how many species go extinct each year? How many have gone extinct since the beginning of time? If species continue to go extinct, and no new ones "evolve", then eventually, all that will be left are people, cows, and chickens.

And then one good virus destroys our food animals and we go extinct. You folks better hope to your God that Darwin wasn't wrong.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If you believe that you have a very narrow scientific background. I think Lamarkism has some possibilities, it has been pointed out that the means of viri evolving themselves outside a larger organism is unfathomable. Some Australian suggested that viri we see often are "rogue" from some animal or plant and that we use them to stranfer genetic ingformation.

So, Darwinism can be just as wrong as Newtonian Physics.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The theory of evolution could be disproved, but it hasn't been yet, and there's a mountain of evidence supporting it.

On the other side, creationism cannot be disproved because it's religious faith, not science. Therefore, no matter how established Darwinism is, the Theory of Evolution, or any future scientific theory, someone will always be able to counter it with completely unscientific untestable religious assumptions, and I'd prefer to stick with the most modern science we have, not the most ancient religious assumptions.

[Papewaio]

But of course, I should have been more specific. 1+1 = 2 in base ten, and using scalar addition.

Then again, it could have been implied by the nontechnical use of addition in a forum not dedicated to mathematics. But I'll confirm the above.

In any case, 1 + 1 = 2, and 10 is equal to 2 in base 1. To be frank, you won't find a lot of vector addition in a casual conversation not generally pertaining to mathematics. So, I'll amend my previous assertion by saying 1 + 1 equals two unless you change the fundamental nature of the universe, or the fundamental nature of the discussion, which does not generally refer to vector addition, and is typically base ten by default unless otherwise stated.

With Creationists they would conclude that you have just changed your theory and it is therefore defunct.

Problem arguing with religion is that it works on faith and absolutes. Science works best on data and probable outcomes.

So two different thought systems that have different criteria will naturally get different outcomes. That they disagree is no surprise, that they sometimes agree isn't either.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Not so much a change, but a clarification. But I agree, even a minor change and "oop! It's total nonsense now! Let's go back to the 6 day theory."

[Papewaio]

It would be a sad thing if Darwinism was false.

Darwinism is to Evolution what Newtonian Physics is to Relativity.

[Askthepizzaguy]

D'oh!

I'm not a scientist or even all that interested in the correct terminologies, so what I meant was evolution, when I used the two terms interchangeably and I shouldn't have.

I'll defer to you wiser and more experienced peoples who know what you're talking about. But you get the gist of what I was trying to express through my uninformed grunting.

Say, is that the mailman? I have to run! Tootles!

[Papewaio]

Don't worry just sharpening your claws, these debates have been happening for years.

[Navaros]

darwinism started out as a crock with it's founder, darwin, and has retained its unfalsifiable core, crock-based ideas ever since. Which is why it remains an accurate term. darwin observed variation within a kind, then imagined that all life transformed into each other, and that imagination is all he had. Today, that remains the case. There is no proof, only faith in the accuracy of that particular imagining being true.

C14 dating, radiometric dating, and all forms of dating are unreliable and erroneous and often produce many different false results from the same sample. All have them rely on blind faith in the accuracy of circular reasoning and the underlying assumptions that go into them. There is no independent verification for any of those dating methods being accurate. Therefore, they may be believed in only by faith.

darwinism is completely unfalsifiable in the minds of darwinists. When some evidence comes to light that refutes it, the darwinist story just gets 're-written' around the facts, rather than discarded like it would be if it was legitimate science. It is assumed by faith that darwinism must be true, no matter what, period, and no consideration is allowed for the possibility that it's not. No evidence can prove it wrong. At most, evidence may only cause a re-write of the darwinist story. Everything must be spun in such a way that it can be ramrodded into the darwinist story that is held to be true based on pre-conceived bias; instead of letting the evidence dictate the facts, which is what legitimate science does.

[HoreTore]

Just wondering; just how and when was the bible proven correct, Navaros...?

[Ronin]

darwinism is completely unfalsifiable in the minds of darwinists. When some evidence comes to light that refutes it, the darwinist story just gets 're-written' around the facts, rather than discarded like it would be if it was legitimate science. It is assumed by faith that darwinism must be true, no matter what, period, and no consideration is allowed for the possibility that it's not. No evidence can prove it wrong. At most, evidence may only cause a re-write of the darwinist story. Everything must be spun in such a way that it can be ramrodded into the darwinist story that is held to be true based on pre-conceived bias; instead of letting the evidence dictate the facts, which is what legitimate science does.

change "darwinism" by "inteligent design" and "darwinists" for "religious people" on that tirade of yours and you might be on to something.

[Banquo's Ghost]

darwinism started out as a crock with it's founder, darwin, and has retained its unfalsifiable core, crock-based ideas ever since. Which is why it remains an accurate term. darwin observed variation within a kind, then imagined that all life transformed into each other, and that imagination is all he had. Today, that remains the case. There is no proof, only faith in the accuracy of that particular imagining being true.

C14 dating, radiometric dating, and all forms of dating are unreliable and erroneous and often produce many different false results from the same sample. All have them rely on blind faith in the accuracy of circular reasoning and the underlying assumptions that go into them. There is no independent verification for any of those dating methods being accurate. Therefore, they may be believed in only by faith.

darwinism is completely unfalsifiable in the minds of darwinists. When some evidence comes to light that refutes it, the darwinist story just gets 're-written' around the facts, rather than discarded like it would be if it was legitimate science. It is assumed by faith that darwinism must be true, no matter what, period, and no consideration is allowed for the possibility that it's not. No evidence can prove it wrong. At most, evidence may only cause a re-write of the darwinist story. Everything must be spun in such a way that it can be ramrodded into the darwinist story that is held to be true based on pre-conceived bias; instead of letting the evidence dictate the facts, which is what legitimate science does.

Anyone else find it a delicious, cosmic irony that Navaros writes this post using a machine that is only possible because of the same physics he decries?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

darwinism started out as a crock with it's founder, darwin, and has retained its unfalsifiable core, crock-based ideas ever since. Which is why it remains an accurate term. darwin observed variation within a kind, then imagined that all life transformed into each other, and that imagination is all he had. Today, that remains the case. There is no proof, only faith in the accuracy of that particular imagining being true.

Not exactly true, while Darwin did make a logical leap he observed such variation that indicated to him that life developed in varying directions to a very great degree. With this in mind, the growing evidence of exstinct species, and the evidence that the Earth was considerably older than the Bible says he determined that adaptation promoted survival and that cumulative adaptation produced new species.

C14 dating, radiometric dating, and all forms of dating are unreliable and erroneous and often produce many different false results from the same sample. All have them rely on blind faith in the accuracy of circular reasoning and the underlying assumptions that go into them. There is no independent verification for any of those dating methods being accurate. Therefore, they may be believed in only by faith.

This is true outside the laboratory, every kind of radiometric dating is open to contamination and this contamination would have made the counts longer in general, not shorter. Generally, however, laboratory tests are repeatable. Even so, the tests were conducted more than once in more than one place, so that overall we can be reasonably certain that the Earth is aproximately the age we think it is. Further, even the most pessimistic estimate places the Earth at some 175,000, years old.

darwinism is completely unfalsifiable in the minds of darwinists. When some evidence comes to light that refutes it, the darwinist story just gets 're-written' around the facts, rather than discarded like it would be if it was legitimate science. It is assumed by faith that darwinism must be true, no matter what, period, and no consideration is allowed for the possibility that it's not. No evidence can prove it wrong. At most, evidence may only cause a re-write of the darwinist story. Everything must be spun in such a way that it can be ramrodded into the darwinist story that is held to be true based on pre-conceived bias; instead of letting the evidence dictate the facts, which is what legitimate science does.

Scientific theories are not discarded until their fundamental principle has been disproven, even then the theory that replaces them often bears a great deal of similarity. Newton's mathematics have been discared, but his fundamental laws of motion are still taught in schools, becaue although they are not precise they do relate closely to modern physics.

[Papewaio]

Different forms of evidence that could prove/disprove each other.
Fossil Record
Radiometric Dating
DNA

Also C14 is not generally used beyond 60,000 years. Different elements are used for different date ranges because of the suitable half life and total amount of the element present in the matter.

[Sigurd]

I'll throw in a flare here.

I can't see that Genesis chapter 1 contradicts the theory of evolution (up until the creation of man) or the current scientific theory of the making of our solar system and our planet.

[Jolt]

C14 dating, radiometric dating, and all forms of dating are unreliable and erroneous and often produce many different false results from the same sample. All have them rely on blind faith

You lost me here. Radiometric dating (And thus, C14 dating) is based on scientific evidence on how carbon atoms decay after the death of organical matter. And there is a pattern of decay, scientifically proven. How is that blind faith?

[Crandaeolon]

I'll throw in a flare here.

I can't see that Genesis chapter 1 contradicts the theory of evolution (up until the creation of man) or the current scientific theory of the making of our solar system and our planet.

I'll bite, am in the need of a quickie.

Genesis account:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis order

1. Beginning
2. Primitive Earth composed of / covered in water
3. Light
4. Atmosphere
5. Dry land
6. Land plants
7. Sun, moon and stars
8. Sea creatures and birds (other flying things?)
9. Cattle, creeping things (insects?), other land animals
10. Man

Current scientific understanding

1. Beginning
2. Light
3. Sun and stars
4. Primitive earth, composed of dry land and superheated gasses
5. Water (earth cools down, water vapor condenses to water)
6. Sea creatures (and sea plants)
7. Some land plants, more sea creatures
8. Land creatures, more land plants, more sea creatures
9. Flying creatures (insects), more plants (fruiting plants), more sea creatures
10. Mammals + more of the rest
11. Birds + more of the rest
12. Man + more of the rest

No differences, eh?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm... I was going to make a flippant joke here, but I'm actually tempted to see the response.

I don't want to discourage the rebuttal in any way.

[Sigurd]

All right… Let’s do this.
Genesis account contra science.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Introduction and header line to the account. No real information here except that we are informed that this account is about the formation of the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The earth is without form and is a void. Darkness rules and nothing is created yet. God is however moving upon the waters. Notice that it does not state that God created this water.
If this void with water contains an unformed earth, this could only be the dark cloud of dust and gas that will be our solar system in the future.
Science tells us that about 4.7 billion years ago our solar system was merely a cloud of gas and dust. The cloud consists of 75% Hydrogen. This cloud is affected by some external force, most likely a supernova that sets this cloud in a rotation motion. It is interesting that hydrogen means water source in Greek. The rotating cloud collapses because of the mutual gravitational attraction of the constituent gas molecules and dust particles. As the cloud becomes denser it starts to block out light from the surrounding universe. As the cloud continues to collapse, regions of higher density forms within it.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
At the center of the cloud the density is highest and the gravitational potential energy is converted to heat. The center is progressively getting hotter until the density and temperature is high enough for nuclear fusion of hydrogen (water) into helium. The ignition of nuclear fusion in the core of the densest part of the cloud gives birth to a new star.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
The new formed star is surrounded by darkness in the middle of the dust cloud. It begins blowing off the remaining dust and gas and clears the immediate space around it.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
That which is caught in the light of the star is called day and that which remains in darkness is night. The earth or that which will become the earth is one of amongst other denser areas in the cloud. The hotter regions close to the center only allows the formation of rocky planets, while further from the center where it is substantially colder, gaseous planets are formed.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

I am going to loop these verses together as they speak of the same thing.
These verses seem to describe the creation of an atmosphere and the formation of land and sea.
Volcanic activity from internal heating created the second atmosphere containing outgassed water, methane, ammonia, sulfur dioxide and carbon dioxide. The earth is bombarded by large objects and the earth’s crust is continually fractured. Ocean basins are formed in this bombardment and the earth’s surface is cooled enough for rain to fall and fill the basins. The atmosphere consists of very little oxygen. However, in the basins of water photosynthesis by blue green algae begins to release oxygen into the atmosphere. But the formation of reduced minerals such as banded iron chert, detrital pyrite and uranite could not have been formed if even 0, 1 percent of the atmosphere had been oxygen. About 2.0 to 1.5 billion years ago levels of oxygen increased due to the activity of the blue green algae. No more reduced minerals are laid down and oxidized minerals are found. Ozone is also formed in this era that lasts until 800 million years ago. Ozone is an important component for life to be protected by UV radiation from the sun.
The continental plates are formed and the process known as plate tectonics begins. As the various continental plates collides mountain ranges form. Dry land appear.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Plant life would be the obvious first choice to put on a earth. They consume carbon dioxide and produces life necessary oxygen. The earth was not favorable for life with its atmosphere of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, sulfur, methane etc. but lacked any free oxygen. Plant life such as the blue green algae (the oldest fossils found) would prepare the earth for animal life.
Land plants starts appearing about 420 million years ago but did not become common until about 360 million years ago. The first appearance of flowering plants was not until 120 million years ago. Grasses are not found until around 57 million years ago.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Ok not exactly chronological here… But this talks of the continuance of dispersing the dust from around the sun. When the dust finally was dispersed enough for the stars to appear as lights on the firmament, they could be seen from the surface of the young earth. These verses also speak of the fine-tuning of the earths movements. The revolution taking 24 hours, the tilting of the axis to produce seasons, the periods of changing light of the moon and the time it takes to make one orbit of the sun. The seasons can also be determined by which star constellations are visible at a given period of the year. All of it had to be fine tuned to produce the times and seasons we have now.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Amphibians were the first creatures on the earth and it states here that life came from the sea. The great dinosaurs were birdlike no? (Ok stretching this a bit). Anyway science agrees that life began in the seas and moved eventually to the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
After the creatures of the sea and the fowls on land, came primates and finally the hominids.

I’ll stop here as this point… but the order of things is very much in accordance with what comes through science.

I have no doubts of and would assume that over the years this record has been changed several times by translations and mistranslations. Even an early church with an agenda would likely change any of this.

A summation of days (or in science, periods)
Period 1 - formation of solar system - from 4.7 billion to about 3.8 billion years ago.
Period 2 - formation of atmosphere - from 4.0 billion to about 800 million years ago.
Period 3 - formation of continents and ocean, plant life - from 3.7 billion to about 57 million years ago
Period 4 - appearance of sun, moon, stars - from 4.5 billion to about 4.4 billion years ago
Period 5 - appearance of sea animals and birds - from 600 million to about 150 million years ago
Period 6 - appearance of land animals - from 370 million to about 19 million years ago.

[KarlXII]

All right… Let’s do this.
Genesis account contra science.

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Introduction and header line to the account. No real information here except that we are informed that this account is about the formation of the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The earth is without form and is a void. Darkness rules and nothing is created yet. God is however moving upon the waters. Notice that it does not state that God created this water.
If this void with water contains an unformed earth, this could only be the dark cloud of dust and gas that will be our solar system in the future.
Science tells us that about 4.7 billion years ago our solar system was merely a cloud of gas and dust. The cloud consists of 75% Hydrogen. This cloud is affected by some external force, most likely a supernova that sets this cloud in a rotation motion. It is interesting that hydrogen means water source in Greek. The rotating cloud collapses because of the mutual gravitational attraction of the constituent gas molecules and dust particles. As the cloud becomes denser it starts to block out light from the surrounding universe. As the cloud continues to collapse, regions of higher density forms within it.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
At the center of the cloud the density is highest and the gravitational potential energy is converted to heat. The center is progressively getting hotter until the density and temperature is high enough for nuclear fusion of hydrogen (water) into helium. The ignition of nuclear fusion in the core of the densest part of the cloud gives birth to a new star.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
The new formed star is surrounded by darkness in the middle of the dust cloud. It begins blowing off the remaining dust and gas and clears the immediate space around it.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
That which is caught in the light of the star is called day and that which remains in darkness is night. The earth or that which will become the earth is one of amongst other denser areas in the cloud. The hotter regions close to the center only allows the formation of rocky planets, while further from the center where it is substantially colder, gaseous planets are formed.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

I am going to loop these verses together as they speak of the same thing.
These verses seem to describe the creation of an atmosphere and the formation of land and sea.
Volcanic activity from internal heating created the second atmosphere containing outgassed water, methane, ammonia, sulfur dioxide and carbon dioxide. The earth is bombarded by large objects and the earth’s crust is continually fractured. Ocean basins are formed in this bombardment and the earth’s surface is cooled enough for rain to fall and fill the basins. The atmosphere consists of very little oxygen. However, in the basins of water photosynthesis by blue green algae begins to release oxygen into the atmosphere. But the formation of reduced minerals such as banded iron chert, detrital pyrite and uranite could not have been formed if even 0, 1 percent of the atmosphere had been oxygen. About 2.0 to 1.5 billion years ago levels of oxygen increased due to the activity of the blue green algae. No more reduced minerals are laid down and oxidized minerals are found. Ozone is also formed in this era that lasts until 800 million years ago. Ozone is an important component for life to be protected by UV radiation from the sun.
The continental plates are formed and the process known as plate tectonics begins. As the various continental plates collides mountain ranges form. Dry land appear.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Plant life would be the obvious first choice to put on a earth. They consume carbon dioxide and produces life necessary oxygen. The earth was not favorable for life with its atmosphere of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, sulfur, methane etc. but lacked any free oxygen. Plant life such as the blue green algae (the oldest fossils found) would prepare the earth for animal life.
Land plants starts appearing about 420 million years ago but did not become common until about 360 million years ago. The first appearance of flowering plants was not until 120 million years ago. Grasses are not found until around 57 million years ago.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Ok not exactly chronological here… But this talks of the continuance of dispersing the dust from around the sun. When the dust finally was dispersed enough for the stars to appear as lights on the firmament, they could be seen from the surface of the young earth. These verses also speak of the fine-tuning of the earths movements. The revolution taking 24 hours, the tilting of the axis to produce seasons, the periods of changing light of the moon and the time it takes to make one orbit of the sun. The seasons can also be determined by which star constellations are visible at a given period of the year. All of it had to be fine tuned to produce the times and seasons we have now.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
Amphibians were the first creatures on the earth and it states here that life came from the sea. The great dinosaurs were birdlike no? (Ok stretching this a bit). Anyway science agrees that life began in the seas and moved eventually to the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
After the creatures of the sea and the fowls on land, came primates and finally the hominids.

I’ll stop here as this point… but the order of things is very much in accordance with what comes through science.

I have no doubts of and would assume that over the years this record has been changed several times by translations and mistranslations. Even an early church with an agenda would likely change any of this.

A summation of days (or in science, periods)
Period 1 - formation of solar system - from 4.7 billion to about 3.8 billion years ago.
Period 2 - formation of atmosphere - from 4.0 billion to about 800 million years ago.
Period 3 - formation of continents and ocean, plant life - from 3.7 billion to about 57 million years ago
Period 4 - appearance of sun, moon, stars - from 4.5 billion to about 4.4 billion years ago
Period 5 - appearance of sea animals and birds - from 600 million to about 150 million years ago
Period 6 - appearance of land animals - from 370 million to about 19 million years ago.

Q.E.D.?

[Tribesman]

You lost me here. Radiometric dating (And thus, C14 dating) is based on scientific evidence on how carbon atoms decay after the death of organical matter. And there is a pattern of decay, scientifically proven. How is that blind faith?

It is blind faith because it isn't in the bible .

[The Celtic Viking]

Sigurd, you're joking, right?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why? Scared there might be some cosmic truth in the musty old scrolls.

[The Celtic Viking]

That's my second greatest nightmare, actually, just after bananas.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Debunked: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=aLqQtt...eature=related

Sort of, Einstein's beliefs are very obscure, there are certain types of God I cannot concieve of either. So I'm not sure if he's an etheist, I'm also not always impressed by his philosophical reasoning.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/sp...ion/index.html I wonder, still... both are more interesting that Steady State, and the new model accounts for the "void" in Genesis.

Seriously though, what we be so bad about the universe having been created by a supreme being?

[Crandaeolon]

Sigurd, you're joking, right?

I think that was a profoundly awesome answer. Working on reply.