Immigration,immigration,immigration..

[rory_20_uk]

There is a downward pressure on unskilled jobs. In Europe and most of the West education is free, so only hard work prevents one from being able to obtain skilled work.

Many businesses that don't drive down wages will loose out to those that outsource to countries that have much lower wages.

Businesses saving tons of money. So now it's a sin to have a successful business?

[InsaneApache]

Anyway onwards to my point. My point is why is there such significant number of people who believe that immigration is rampantly out of control?

Palestine?

The point im trying to make is when did the fear and facts about immigration become twisted? I know that immigration has been a sensitive issue for centuries

Your falling for propaganda. There has only been significant immigration into the UK in my lifetime (50 years). I can remember seeing my first black man when I was about 7/8 years old. I was fascinated and got a thick ear from pater for staring.

It's the sheer scale of immigration, particularly in the last 12 years that has changed. Anyway with our racist prime minister declaring 'British jobs for British workers' what would you expect from the hoi polloi?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Immigrants are no bad thing, let me state that right off.

However, the current situation in the UK is untennable. We are full, we are out of space; this is no longer a fact that can be hidden. Oh, we have plenty of free land but if we build houses on it we can't grow crops or raise animals. Being in a situation where we have to import all our food is unacceptable, it would be bad enough if we were still the greatest Empire in the world, as a mere nation-state it would be placing one foot in the grave. Our welfare state is under presure because the baby-boomers are about to retire, so we need a larger work force, says the government.

The government has been trying to grow the workforce like the economy, and we all know how that worked out.

Te immigrants coming into the country are breeding at about ten times the local population, there are taking over whole boroughs, not streets and they are placing an unacceptable stree, not only on our culture, but on our infastructre. As IA says, the pace is unprecedented and the effects are already beggining to tell. Civil unrest, far-right politicians gaining traction, and a general decrease in tollerance for other cultures.

[Fragony]

However, the current situation in the UK is untennable. We are full, we are out of space; this is no longer a fact that can be hidden.

Oh boy what to say, if you think the UK is full

There are some problems here but it ain't so bad, political correctness isn't fashionable anymore things are going to be fine. The UK, I dunno you guys are insane if I may say so, nobody here would put up with that.

[naut]

Palestine?

[Husar]

Businesses saving tons of money. So now it's a sin to have a successful business?

If it's built on the suffering of others I'm inclined to say yes. It's also a bit stupid in the long run because now some businesses wonder why noone is buying their stuff anymore. Maybe because all those potential buyers are unemployed? Well, can always get a bailout from the taxpayers, wait, unemployed people don't pay taxes either, they receive tax money as well. Where could it possibly end?
Even more successful businesses of course.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That, Sir, is quite a neat point. Unfortunately we need to export in order for the country to become more wealthy. So, either we become more profitable, orwe make our competitors less profitable. Raising standards in the 3rd World would theoretically level the playingfield. The problem with that is that the world economy relies on someone getting screwed over, and always has.

[Husar]

The problem with that is that the world economy relies on someone getting screwed over, and always has.

Exactly, and that is why I don't accept anyone telling me not to complain about businesses as I have all the same right to screw over businesses to enrich myself as they do trying to screw me to make more profits. So I do not sympathize with businesses as their undoing is my profit.
Including the business I'm working in of course, if they make red numbers because I get too much in wages, it's all for my own benefit.

[rory_20_uk]

The world isn't zero sum.

New businesses that recycle waste for a profit are improving the place as well as making money; new technologies often help find new ways of doing things or new things entirely - devices that harness wave power (if they get them to work) will found a new business making, selling and repairing them as well as helping reduce waves which in itself it a positive thing. Other uses have been to help spread nutrients in sea water to help the growth rates of aquatic fauna and flora.

The economy is an ecosystem. Over time it can change, but it is best for all if the components are "healthy". Companies made inefficient in the medium to long term are detrimental to all and in the short term only benefit a few who are the root cause be it leveraged takover or unproductive employees.

[InsaneApache]

In all the years that I ran a business I never screwed anyone over. I regard it as unprofessional. In fact I looked after my customers, especially the regular ones.

Still, what would I know?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I was talking globally, rather than inter-business level. As one country rises, another falls. Britain, then America, now America may be on the slide and Russia has recently taken advantage of that.

I don't like it, I think it sucks, but I'm enough of a realist to recognise that in order for there to be people on top there need to be people on the bottom.

My overall point was that we have been trying to import our bottom rung from places that are even worse off. So bottom rung in Britain is still better than mid-rung where you were.