CVG preview & impressions

[Sol Invictus]

I was never happy with the power of assassins in previous games and 'the gentlemen' looks even worse. Can anyone name a high ranking general who was killed in a duel by a foreigner? How about one who was assassinated while with his army? Spies are fine, assassins are bogus (especially) in this time period.

I completely agree. The idea that an enemy agent can walk into a General's tent in the middle of the General's army and call him out in a duel is a bit silly. I would prefer that the entire duel mechanic be eliminated and just allow the Gentleman to influence Tech progression and some Spying on the side.

[Sir Beane]

I completely agree. The idea that an enemy agent can walk into a General's tent in the middle of the General's army and call him out in a duel is a bit silly. I would prefer that the entire duel mechanic be eliminated and just allow the Gentleman to influence Tech progression and some Spying on the side.

I would also prefer that the gentleman stuck to influencing tech progression and industrial espionage. If I'm going to kill an enemy general, I'll do it honorably with an army.

I don't mind spies and espionage. But I would prefer a more fleshed out spying mechanic thats actually useful, and dispense with the assasination part all together.

[Fisherking]

Before everyone is in an uproar can we just see how it works in the game first.

Duels were fought! There are a lot of agents besides Generals. For all we know you can refuse a challenge.

We know Rakes, Gentlemen, and Generals. We don’t know about Admirals, Ministers, and so forth.

This reminds me of people complaining that some one bribed their General in Rome. They didn’t like it but it was a fact of life. Still they squealed enough that the costs became prohibitive and it carried on into M2TW. Nobles changed sides for money or other considerations but we took it out of the games.

Let’s just see what we get. At least we don’t need to worry about inquisitors this time out.

Think of the agents in sort of a short hand form of conspiracies to have someone discredited or even hanged for some made up charge, that happened!

Aaron Burr had three or more duels while he was in one office or another and ended up killing Alexander Hamilton. Decatur fought duels too. I am sure there are more examples. I am just not going to look them up.

As for assassinations, they took place, in this time and before. After the flight of the Earls Red Hugh O’Donnell died under misters circumstances, as did a number of others. It wasn’t just and English thing now was it?

[Sir Beane]

I'm not so much complaning as just stating my preferences. I'd rather gentleman didn't duel, but if they do it's nothing big really. I doubt it will hinder my enjoyment of the game.

Personally my wish is not that espionage is removed, simply that it is made more complex and more interesting. I want to carefully contrsuct networks of spies and slowly surround my enemies with men loyal to myself.

Also I am extremely pleased Inquisitors are't in this one. Burn my King will you? Then both his sons? Stupid inquisition.

[Divinus Arma]

RE: Ship combat

all the more difficult by the need to manually reload cannons after firing at the enemy.

GAH!

[Sol Invictus]

No uproar here; I will deal with the system that I am provided with. What else can we do but speculate?

[Sir Beane]

Reloading cannons after firing is just part of the 18th century experience. If you want fancy automatic weapons with muliple shots then it's best to play something more modern

Seriously though I don't really mind having to reload the cannons, so long as it's just one button to click. If they make us go along the boat and reload each cannon individually.... I'll jump overboard.

[King of Finland]

Empire was previewed in a Finnish game magazine, and they had some information that I think is new. I posted it here because I didn't want to start a new thread.

Gentlemen can steal technology from foreign universities, but if a war starts they are kicked out of the country

Ministers can enhance the state or make it worse with their abilities. Monarchs can choose their own ministers, but republics must have elections. If all of your ministers are complete idiots, you can have early elections, but if you do it constantly it can lead to a civil war.

Artillery can fire direct fire or can prevent the enemies movements by firing in front of them. (barrage?)

The sea battles seem very arcade. The problems lie in sailing: You don't have to move your ships at all because you can just turn them around like cannon turrets. Even more agile ships can't avoid a broadside from a ship of the line. Upwind is not important because you can sail directly against it. Guys from CA said that they'll focus to sea battles most during the last parts of development and the UI is still completely unfinished.

[gollum]

The sea battles seem very arcade. The problems lie in sailing: You don't have to move your ships at all because you can just turn them around like cannon turrets. Even more agile ships can't avoid a broadside from a ship of the line. Upwind is not important because you can sail directly against it. Guys from CA said that they'll focus to sea battles most during the last parts of development and the UI is still completely unfinished.

heh - The sea looks great though - its alright if gameplay balancing and tweaking is done in February 2009 since they got till 2011 to fix it with the expansion - happy beta testing Empire players. I hope in the next TW title they put in aerial battles too.

Thanks for the info King of Finland

!it burnsus!

[CBR]

Seriously though I don't really mind having to reload the cannons, so long as it's just one button to click. If they make us go along the boat and reload each cannon individually.... I'll jump overboard.

Oh I think you would get tired of it trying to handle up to 20 ships and still have to think of such details.

But no need to panic DA, reloading will be done automatically. There is a fire/broadside button to handle situations when you want to control exactly when to fire: perfect raking position etc.


CBR

[Jack Lusted]

You don't have to reload cannons automatically after firing, they do of course automatically reload just like in previous games.

[Sol Invictus]

Thanks Jack, I am sure I would get very tired of trying to remember; and many times forgetting; to reload my ship guns.

I certainly don't expect nor desire that the naval battles will be extremely accurately portrayed, but I hope that CA doeasn't go overboard by making it extremely easy and arcade-like. I am a bit concerned by the ease and speed of immoble ships turning that I saw in a video.

[Sir Beane]

Thanks Jack, it's nice to hear the official word.

I think CA are going in the right direction by keeping naval battles reasonably simple.

Actual naval battles of the time would be extremely boring to play. Several days of sailing and trying to out manouvre an opponent? No thanks.

It could go wrong if it gets a little too arcadey though. It would be nice if there was a 'realism mode' option we could tick to force ships to have to tack to sail against the wind, and similar things.

[ConnMon]

I've decided that if I somehow hate ship combat, I can just automanage it. I technically wouldn't have lost anything that the other TW games had. Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to conquer the seas (personally).

[Sol Invictus]

I've decided that if I somehow hate ship combat, I can just automanage it. I technically wouldn't have lost anything that the other TW games had. Don't get me wrong, I'd still love to conquer the seas (personally).

I agree, I have never been a big boat guy anyway so I will have no problem if Naval combat is a bit messed up.

[Sir Beane]

I agree, I have never been a big boat guy anyway so I will have no problem if Naval combat is a bit messed up.

Noooooooooo! You'll give CA excuses! Can't you at least pretend to be bothered until the game comes out? After it's out I don't care if you mod naval combat out entirely, so long as those of us who want it get something good.

You're missing out on a lot though if you don't play the naval battles. Naval combat is extremely interesting once it gets to the actual ship to ship fighting. Give it a try and you might appreciate it more than you think. (I like boats)

[Fisherking]

I doubt they have taken out the auto resolve feature but you had best have an idea of what the game rates as the super units, as always, before you use it.

[ConnMon]

I doubt they have taken out the auto resolve feature but you had best have an idea of what the game rates as the super units, as always, before you use it.

True. I hate how some random boats could just decimate my entire navy. It's like, would 6 cogs really deal me a devastating defeat, when I have 6 gun holks? >.<

[Sol Invictus]

Noooooooooo! You'll give CA excuses! Can't you at least pretend to be bothered until the game comes out? After it's out I don't care if you mod naval combat out entirely, so long as those of us who want it get something good.

You're missing out on a lot though if you don't play the naval battles. Naval combat is extremely interesting once it gets to the actual ship to ship fighting. Give it a try and you might appreciate it more than you think. (I like boats)

What I meant to say was that if CA screws up the Naval Combat I will never ever buy another TW game again ever.

[Sheogorath]

True. I hate how some random boats could just decimate my entire navy. It's like, would 6 cogs really deal me a devastating defeat, when I have 6 gun holks? >.<

Dont get me started on those damn pirates

[Polemists]

Pirates were rather lame. I hope pirates this time are realistc. I was perfectly fine with the attacks but in a game like rome, where i'm attacked 5 times a turn by 500 ship armada's of pirates, got a little ridiculous.

Honestly in naval combat I look most forward to the boarding action. Mostly because I like melee combat alot

[SpencerH]

The sea battles seem very arcade. The problems lie in sailing: You don't have to move your ships at all because you can just turn them around like cannon turrets. Even more agile ships can't avoid a broadside from a ship of the line. Upwind is not important because you can sail directly against it. Guys from CA said that they'll focus to sea battles most during the last parts of development and the UI is still completely unfinished.

From whats been mentioned in another thread, it seems likely that the review was played with the naval movement set on "computer control". IIRC CA has said there is a more realistic mode where such irregularities wont happen.

[Tomisama]

Thinking out loud

From what I understand windward and leeward approaches were fundamental to the tactics of the English and French navies respectively. The former having more ships could afford to be more aggressive (in on the wind), and the later always wanting to have a quick out to “save the boat” if things didn’t go well (take to the wind).

Weather and ocean current factors would be important to an Admiral’s decision making, but not a total limiting factor. If he needed a ship (or line of ships) to be at a certain position, that position was assigned. It then became the ships Captain’s responsibility to make it happen. In my estimation, having to tack against the wind is as much micromanagement as having to reload cannon. I think it can be safely delegated


Added: Although, I would like to see the tacking taking place (albeit automatic), and have to consider in the extra time involved in coordinating actions. We’ll see!

[Sir Beane]

Thinking out loud

From what I understand windward and leeward approaches were fundamental to the tactics of the English and French navies respectively. The former having more ships could afford to be more aggressive (in on the wind), and the later always wanting to have a quick out to “save the boat” if things didn’t go well (take to the wind).

Weather and ocean current factors would be important to an Admiral’s decision making, but not a total limiting factor. If he needed a ship (or line of ships) to be at a certain position, that position was assigned. It then became the ships Captain’s responsibility to make it happen. In my estimation, having to tack against the wind is as much micromanagement as having to reload cannon. I think it can be safely delegated

The problem we have is that CA have actually stated tacking won't be handled by the A.I. They tried auto tack and apparently it annoyed inexperienced players with no idea how ships work, so they took it out.

Basically if you want your ships to tack then you have to do it yourself, for all 20 of them.


I think pirates this time will be more realistic, we know a lot more about them for one thing.
What with all the skull and crossbones at least they will have style :P

[Vuk]

especially when you take away the fire_by_rank attribute in the EDU and form them in a 2-man-deep line, similar to the linear formations expected to be used in ETW.

Could you explain that a little for me?