The Curia

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius could not believe his ears, it was all happening so fast. Tiny beads of sweat broke out at his hairline and he downed a cup of water while he gathered his bearings. Now the Legatus had shown his hand along with Tribunus Scipio. Two senators, though commanders of a Legion, would not be enough to convince the Dicator and the other members of the Curia that Greece should be the new jewel that Roma set its eyes toward. This would require rhetoric and solidarity of an unparalleled level. They were confident that there were two more senatores who would side with them on this issue; but there would certainly be opposition, mainly from those in command of Legio I and II. Tiberius could only hope that the plans laid out during the discussion he had had at dinner with Scipio were in place.

He stood up, cleared his throat and began,

"Senatores, it is with great respect and humility that I address this legislative body as not only a seasoned senator, but also as a Tribunus and Second in Command of the Legio III Campania. As you well know, though a member of the Gens Claudia my family hails from Tarentum for the past three generations. While Latin, we have great ties to the Hellenes in culture, language, and many other ways of life. Allow me the honor of addressing the advantages of sending the Legio III Campania into Hellas in stead of journeying to the north.

"First and foremost, the Res Publica has two separate Legions already campaigning in that territory. While there is yet work to be done, the peoples of that land have not proven to be united enough to be a threat to us in recent times. Other than garrison duty or defense against an unprecedented well-coordinated invasion from a combined force of both Gallic tribes and possibly even their northern Germanic neighbors, there is nothing that would require a third Legio to be sent to the north. It is highly dubious that the uncultivated lands could even support several extra thousands of fighting men for any sustained period of time without depriving the citizens and the local inhabitants of the towns that we seek to bring into our fold. Surely that would not make them feel amicably towards us, their new masters?

"Additionally, allow me to speak of the pro-Romani attitudes of many of the Hellenes on the Occidental coast of Hellas. Having been raised in a Hellenic town until my family - well-connected merchants, mind you - aided the spy sent into Tarentum by the Senate several years ago, I am very well versed and still up-to-date in on these matters. Romani culture, goods, religion, and law are all exported to the Greek isles with each ship that reaches their ports, and I attest that those are in an ever-increasing demand. While our forces would undoubtedly be forced to fight some battles, there are many amongst the countryside who would aide us in our fight. Verily, once the local population centers are captured, it would take little coersion to supplant the Hellenic government with one that was decidedly pro-Roman.

"With these friendly governments joining our ranks, the more stubborn of the cities would be weakened considerably while our own coffers and legions were strengthened. The fertile lands of Hellas also provide us the benefit of being rather close together in the mountainous terrain. Once a city was captured, it would be less than a season's march to lay seige to the walls of the next. This geography would speed our total control of the region, which, once properly subjugated, would enrich the Res Publica tenfold. We would then have enough denarii and able-bodied men to take on Carthago full-on, as well as advance into Gaul, and have forces ready to defend against any incursions from Aegyptus who have their eyes set upon the Greek jewel as well."

Tiberius takes a moment to down another cup of water and continues,

"Senatores, the lands to the north of Italia are exceedingly vast, frozen wastelands inhabited by viscious savages and unpenetratable forests. Even if all three armies were sent north they would become separated and subject to ambush from any amount of roaming savages. Our men would most assuredly suffer unnecessary casualties from exposure during the long, harsh, and unforgiving winters as our supply lines would undoubtedly be constantly harassed and intercepted by the enemy. Is that the fate you would send the sons of the Res Publica to? I should hope not. There will be a time when the whole of Europa will fall under the rule of the Senate; but men of Roma, this is not yet that time.

"I thank you for your attention and implore you once more, let Legio I and II finish pacifying the lands south of the Alps and consolidate their holdings. They have bled much and are in much need of a well-deserved rest. Let them begin to raise families in these new territories and Romanize them. Legio III Campania is more than capable and ready and willing to head to Greece, with the permission of the Senate, of course, and bring greater glory, wealth, slaves, and fighting men into our armament!"

[Mooks]

*Senator Scipio rises, obviosly knowing what the dictator was going to say. Perhaps he already knows what most people are going to say and has planned responses for them?*

Invading Greece is not a near impossibility. We shall 'borrow' what transports we need from our merchant class. Of course we will compensate them for it, but they should be happy about it! We are expanding their profits 10 fold, for the markets of Greece are more numerous then Italia.

The easterners gave us trade rights like they would infants candy. Us romans are not a seafaring culture, and they know that. There is barely any room in their harbors for the ships we do have! They get their olive oil and wine from other places.

Please senators, realize this opportunity! The Greeks and Macedonians are now as we speak engaged in a fierce war. The Hellens army will be experianced, but depleted. Legio 3 has complete confidence in itself for quick and decisive victorys. If you send the legio III to Greece, our coffers will refill, the slave markets will refill, our ships will travel farther then they have ever gone before. How long have we gone without a scraping the bottom of the barrel that is the treasury? How long have we went without greeks to tutor and educate our young sons of Rome? Too long I say.

*Scipio sets down abruptly.*

(OOC me and marcellus posted at the same time. Hate when that happens)

[navarro951]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus stands again with an arm extended out towards Scipio.

"Honored members of the Senate, my fellow Tribunus and senator speaks the truth. Hellas is divided and ripe for conquest. Noble Dictator Blasio, your anymosity towards the Molossian is well-placed. As an ammendment to this proposal, I suggest that to deal with the Epirote menace, we allow one of the Legions in the north to harass and possibly even take the region of Dalmatia to draw Pyrrhus' attention off of our subversion in the south. There will not be many large battles to be fought against the Koinon Hellenon or the Makedonians. They are concerned with their own individual agendas rather than unite against us. This plan cannot fail.

"I have trained many years with a former commander of the armies of Taras. He is my aide de camp and an honest and capable man, true. I assure you that our legions are more mobile than any hoplite or even a phalanx, and the best way to annihilate them is to flank and surround them. Again I state that we will not fail."

[navarro951]

"I am a man of the senators , of the republic, if this topic truly suits some of us,and others are against it, it may be time for an emergency council. Give me a bit of time to make this decision."

[Mooks]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

I admire the spartan hoplites. But its been decades, maybe even centurys before they were ever in sufficent numbers to actually be a winning force. Makedonia and Greece have been in a war for decades now, the polis in the south of greece will be lightly defended.

If Rome decides to lead another legio against the Epirotes, I will not agree or disagree. Its a sound plan, and the Dalmation pirates are really bad this time of year.

[Mjolnir]

Senator Caivs stands, fury in his eyes.

What madness is this? Even after their plans to attack our allies in the south have been voted down, some members of this Senate insist upon proposing yet another folly. There are edicts passed by this Senate that are yet undone, but you begin push "daring" new plans before the ink is even dry.

The Celts and Gauls may not be united, but they are numerous. There are three major settlements yet to be taken by our legions in Cisalpine Gaul, something that makes the use of Legio III in the north a necessity. It is not cowardice, but prudence to say this and it is arrogance to say otherwise. We are Romans, YES, but not gods. As I have said before, the north is large, sending three legions there will cause no great difficulty for food stores, especially if we send Legio III to Massalia Caivs' voice rises and hardens as this Senate ordered be taken. There is business for us in the north, business that the Senate felt was more important than ill-conceived forays in the south or east.

And yet you would have us sail across the sea in boats we don't have and can't afford, to a land filled with the battle hardened sons of Megos Alexandros, and take the legendary city of Sparta with a legion of green untested soldiers. And then what? What will we do then surrounded by Greek armies and cut off from reinforcements and supplies in a land turned against us by our unprovoked hostility. Sirs your plan is madness without any help from my tongue. And this is without even mentioning the loss of trade and friendship our diplomats have just secured for us. Should that be tossed aside so lightly?

And finally, for those of you who spent too much time with your Greek tutors growing up, there are plenty of boy-lovers in the Greek colony of Massalia with which for you to make friends.

Senator Caivs Aemilia casts a meaningful glance at Senator Tiberius a small mocking smile playing at his lips.

I say that this proposal is self-apparent foolishness, let us discard it as such and speak no more of an attack on Hellas at present.

Senator Caivs resumes his seat

[navarro951]

"And what if it does fail gentlemen. Say we do take Sparte, Corinth. And then what??? You think Makedon and Greece are just going to accept a peace then? NO! They will come down on us with their most elite troops and massacre us. Xerxes was stopped at Thermopylae, then they will fight with everything they've got to beat us as well. We are speaking so far ahead of ourselves it gives me a headache"

[Potocello]

"Your telling me, and senators I would never doubt the might of a Roman legion, but you are telling me that the new Legio III which has not yet been tested in battle could easily, as you've put it, smash against the military strength and tactical genius that is the Spartan hoplite?"

"As Scipio has said, the Spartans have not truly been a formidable force for quite some time, the same
can be said for Greece as a whole. They stand a shattered nation of another time.

As you all know, i have fought the vicious barbarians in the north. It can be said that their ferocity can
rival that of the Spartan hoplite. I am confident that Marcellus' loyalty and wisdom and Scipio's fiery
passion will translate well to the battlefield. I am confident that we can lead the Legio III Campania to
victory against the Spartans. It is true, Roman might may be tested in the battle against the Spartans
but it is a battle we cannot lose.

Senators, the wealth of Greece is bleeding from their disunited land. Let us stop the bleeding with
Roman influence. Let us sail to Greece."

[navarro951]

"Let us sail to Greece? Tell me what do you plan to sail on? Planks, logs, or are you willing to swim? We haven't the money for a standing navy. If it was a navy to simply leave the legion on the Greek territory, which would be insane, then sure. But we would have to keep a standing navy to pull the men out of their. It is too costly, and risky aside from what you believe. We've no idea the strength of their armies divided or not. And no naked, idiotic barbarian will ever amount to what the Spartans have accomplished in their time. Our legions have proven their worth, but we are yet to face an enemy as monstrous as the Greeks have faced. Yes they are divided, but in times of war they can come together as one formidable foe."

[Potocello]

"Senator Caivs, plans to attack Carthage were foolish because they are united. They have the
wealth, the power, and the territory to defeat us while the Hellen do not. We would take Sparte
leaving the Koinon Hellenon with only two territories. From there, we could build our forces, retrain
and prepare to take Korinthos if we desire to. Makedonia is strong but will be to preoccupied with
fighting Epeiros and the remaining Koinon Hellenon that they will not be able to route us from Greece.

And how dare you insult senator Tiberius. His education has turned him into one of the best men i
have ever known."

Servivs stands there, furious at Caivs for the insult

OOC: ah i hate responding after someone has said something new while i was writing

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus and a handfull of senatores stand up and pound the desks in front of them with their fists repeatedly, accompanied by just as many repeated grunts of agreement as is the custom of parliamentary bodies. Various shouts of "Death to Greece!", "Eastward!", and "Legio III will succeed!" intersperse the commotion and jubilant concurence.

[Mooks]

Senator Caivs stands, fury in his eyes.

What madness is this? Even after their plans to attack our allies in the south have been voted down, some members of this Senate insist upon proposing yet another folly. There are edicts passed by this Senate that are yet undone, but you begin push "daring" new plans before the ink is even dry.

The Celts and Gauls may not be united, but they are numerous. There are three major settlements yet to be taken by our legions in Cisalpine Gaul, something that makes the use of Legio III in the north a necessity. It is not cowardice, but prudence to say this and it is arrogance to say otherwise. We are Romans, YES, but not gods. As I have said before, the north is large, sending three legions there will cause no great difficulty for food stores, especially if we send Legio III to Massalia Caivs' voice rises and hardens as this Senate ordered be taken. There is business for us in the north, business that the Senate felt was more important than ill-conceived forays in the south or east.

And yet you would have us sail across the sea in boats we don't have and can't afford, to a land filled with the battle hardened sons of Megos Alexandros, and take the legendary city of Sparta with a legion of green untested soldiers. And then what? What will we do then surrounded by Greek armies and cut off from reinforcements and supplies in a land turned against us by our unprovoked hostility. Sirs your plan is madness without any help from my tongue. And this is without even mentioning the loss of trade and friendship our diplomats have just secured for us. Should that be tossed aside so lightly?

And finally, for those of you who spent too much time with your Greek tutors growing up, there are plenty of boy-lovers in the Greek colony of Massalia with which for you to make friends.

Senator Caivs Aemilia casts a meaningful glance at Senator Tiberius a small mocking smile playing at his lips.

I say that this proposal is self-apparent foolishness, let us discard it as such and speak no more of an attack on Hellas at present.

Senator Caivs resumes his seat

*Scipio rises calmly. Emphasizes his cool head and calmness. Next to Aemilia's fury he might appear more intelligent and coolheaded then he actually is*

Thats quite a arguement there but I respect it, and debate it one by one in order.he

The 3 settlements yet to be taken can be taken by Legio 1 and 2. The glory is all theirs. If needed, legio 3 can stay behind until they can be taken. I shouldve made this more clear. Pardon that.

The edict just failed for the attack on Carthrage, yet it wasnt because they were our allies. Dont let that fool you, it was because the north isnt taken yet, and that was in the past. The north gets closer and closer to being taken. Its also because we didnt have a extra legion on hand.

The land of Greece is not the land it was when Socrates, Homor, Pelicles, or when Thermoplye happened. The land is just as rich as it was back then, but its soldiers are mercenarys in the far east, its military traditions have been outdated, and the war with Makedonia have depleted the armies it does have.

And the question not what would we do when encountered by a superior force, but what would they do.

*Scipio takes his seat. A fellow senator behind him sais to him "Did you see his Aemilia's face?*

(OOC I know what you mean ;)

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

"Legatus Longus, Tribunus Scipio, thank you for your defense of my character. These hallowed halls have indeed been defiled with such a personal insult as the one made by Senator Mamercus. But I shall accept his disrespect with calm and refuse to acknowledge it further. Indeed, it is beneath those of the Gens Claudia to be dragged into public feuds like commoners. His arguments have been refuted by you, Scipio; and, should any doubt remain, let it be made clear that Senator Mamercus is but a pawn of those in league with Legatus Cotta. He and those like him are as wolves: bold in numbers, cautious by themselves, going whichever way the wind blows."

[Mooks]

"Let us sail to Greece? Tell me what do you plan to sail on? Planks, logs, or are you willing to swim? We haven't the money for a standing navy. If it was a navy to simply leave the legion on the Greek territory, which would be insane, then sure. But we would have to keep a standing navy to pull the men out of their. It is too costly, and risky aside from what you believe. We've no idea the strength of their armies divided or not. And no naked, idiotic barbarian will ever amount to what the Spartans have accomplished in their time. Our legions have proven their worth, but we are yet to face an enemy as monstrous as the Greeks have faced. Yes they are divided, but in times of war they can come together as one formidable foe."

As I said before, Ships from the merchant class. In case you never saw one before, they are perfect transports.

Legio III will capture a city within 2 seasons, if the transports get raided before that then we can gather another fleet of merchants or the remnants of the defeated fleet with the gold we take from the Hellenes. It will all pay for itself.

Yes, in Sparta's TIME. Not now, not since our great grandfathers lived. What have they acheived of note? Very few of their warriors are trained like they were of old.

[navarro951]

Blasio shoots up and storms in anger...

"How dare you speak of Legatus Cotta in that way! He is brother of Roma and a brother to me! You are but a tribune, and have not proven yourself to even half of what Legatus Cotta has. You speak as if you have been through the bloody battles they have. Wolves! You disgust me!"

[Mooks]

Blasio shoots up and storms in anger...

"How dare you speak of Legatus Cotta in that way! He is brother of Roma and a brother to me! You are but a tribune, and have not proven yourself to even half of what Legatus Cotta has. You speak as if you have been through the bloody battles they have. Wolves! You disgust me!"

*Scipio shoots a look at Macellus. Macellus understands and gives a wink*


Please excuse Macelllus for that remark. He is...overly agressive sometimes. Something the Greeks shall come to fear, unless Aemilia and the dictator have their way with it.

(OOC his traits coincide with his last post

[navarro951]

"I do not feel I can forgive this remark...Legatus Cotta served in Taras, Rhegion, Bononia, Segesta, and will lead the attack on Patavium. He is our most proven commander at the moment. And Tribune Tiberius should learn to show respect where it is due regardless of political difference."

[Potocello]

"For the time being, I feel you must forgive this remark or at least let it go. Let this not get sidetracked with useless
bickering for we are here to discuss the issue of attacking Greece."

[Mooks]

I want to remind the senate that we are not exactly conquering Greece. But installing friendlier goverments. The people will rule themselves by people they know and trust. In the end we are helping the greeks out. No longer will they have to fear Makedonian retribution or a reconquest by the Epirotes. In the end peace and prosperity will reign over the sections of greece we help, and that is what we all want correct? Peace and Prosperity.

[Mjolnir]

Caivs stands to speak again

Senator Marcellus, you criticize the passion of my words and yet refuse to respond to my arguments; a quite convenient way to dodge the truth of my statements. Is that a Greek trick perhaps? You say that I am only brave in numbers and go whichever way the winds blows and yet I only stand against the three of you; although I am sure others will speak in agreement with me when the rest of the Senate learns of your mad proposal. It is again convenient that you choose to bring this up when Legatus Cotta and my cousin are in the north with the legion and I only happened to be here to procure supplies, else you would be unopposed. Was that your plan?

Caivs turns

Senator Scipio, you say the edict to go south failed because the north had yet to be taken and that is in the past now; yet that is at the very least an ill-informed statement since we are no closer now to securing the north than we were 3 months ago. What has changed exactly? You say two legions can secure the north, I agree. However three legions would make the process go much faster and make doubly sure our victory. I say we should use our legions where the Senate voted to use them and not on some unauthorized foolishness.

As for Greece you have yet to answer any of my points, save one, and that with a bad assumption. Do you really think that the Greeks who went all the way to the Indus have backsliden so far as to no longer be a threat? Do you really believe that when faced with an outside threat they will not drop their petty bickering to face us with a united front? And even if they don't, do you think Macedonia would not see our invasion and weakening of Koinon Hellenon as the chance they've been waiting for to seize all of Hellas?

No, you have left much unanswered and continue on only on high unfounded rhetoric and ill-conceived dreams.

[Mooks]

Caivs stands to speak again

Senator Marcellus, you criticize the passion of my words and yet refuse to respond to my arguments; a quite convenient way to dodge the truth of my statements. Is that a Greek trick perhaps? You say that I am only brave in numbers and go whichever way the winds blows and yet I only stand against the three of you; although I am sure others will speak in agreement with me when the rest of the Senate learns of your mad proposal. It is again convenient that you choose to bring this up when Legatus Cotta and my cousin are in the north with the legion and I only happened to be here to procure supplies, else you would be unopposed. Was that your plan?

Caivs turns

Senator Scipio, you say the edict to go south failed because the north had yet to be taken and that is in the past now; yet that is at the very least an ill-informed statement since we are no closer now to securing the north than we were 3 months ago. What has changed exactly? You say two legions can secure the north, I agree. However three legions would make the process go much faster and make doubly sure our victory. I say we should use our legions where the Senate voted to use them and not on some unauthorized foolishness.

As for Greece you have yet to answer any of my points, save one, and that with a bad assumption. Do you really think that the Greeks who went all the way to the Indus have backsliden so far as to no longer be a threat? Do you really believe that when faced with an outside threat they will not drop their petty bickering to face us with a united front? And even if they don't, do you think Macedonia would not see our invasion and weakening of Koinon Hellenon as the chance they've been waiting for to seize all of Hellas?

No, you have left much unanswered and continue on only on high unfounded rhetoric and ill-conceived dreams.

I said we are getting closer and closer to taking the northern cities. If we are not, then what are they doing up there? I shall disregard this, but maybe your tutor didnt teach you enough on the latin language.

And how is my proposal to go liberate parts of Greece unauthorized? Exactly when im trying to authorize it?

Your right though that I didnt recongize all the points you made earlier. How dare you accuse me of trying to eliminate the cash flow we are receiving from trade with them, when I was the senator that proposed we send emmisarys to start the cash flow in the first place? And how stupid can you be if you do not consider that the very 2 cities we intend to capture from the time we land in Greece are the ones that are trading? The ports will be reopened very soon.

The Greeks as of now are not the greeks of old. They have no generals of great note and alot of their warrior class has went east to look for work in the Successor States. They are embroiled in a war with Makedonia, which by the way its important to note that Alexander was a Makedonian, not a Greek.


Their are plenty of boy lovers in both Greece and Massilia. Perhaps I will send you the best one to tutor you in comprehension. You need it.

[SwissBarbar]

Avlvs Aemilivs Mamervcs, who came back from the legion's camp together with his cousin and cotta, has been calmy listening to this debate , but now i was enough

Decimus Cornelius Scipio, DON'T YOU INSULT MY COUSIN, you miserable maggot. I divest you of my friendship. Shut up and listen AGAIN, to what you should know already. He sighed.

Senatores, I am no friend of the greeks at all, and would rather see them crushed sooner than later. But IT IS TOO EARLY FOR THAT. Did you all, who pledge for war, forget, that we just voted and accepted an Edict, which contains to send diplomates to Epeiros, and seek trade and peace, and now you come with war? Do you think the Epeirotes and Makedonians, who - other than our legions yet - already have conquered a gread Empire once? What, do we just fight everone at the same time now? Celts, Greeks, Carthaginians..? Come on, lets fight the Seleukids and the Ptolemaioi too. One more legion should do, right?

Senatores! War with Greece will be brought upon us soon enough. Should we take a Greek city like Massalia or even Syrakousai, not only the Carthaginians will march against us, but also your beloved Spartans. Don't rush with it! Lets finish the southern Celts, before taking the risk of getting slaughtered at many fronts.

Our legions are strong and well equipped. But even the greatest warrior needs to eat and espeacially be paid. 3 legions, as strong as our fellow Roman brothers may be, are just not enough to face all our neighbour's armies at once

[navarro951]

"Well said Avlvs, on another note...I think some of you nay-sayers need to rethink the way you speak of our men who at this very moment march for war. Our legionaries are not cattle to be wasted and thrown from this front to that. On this Greek issue, as I said before...it is risky and some of you speak as if we can walk through Greek lands without a scratch. Know this, regardless of whether or not they are the old Greece, they will band together in times of desperation and they will fight with a ferocity we have not even seen fighting barbarians."

[SwissBarbar]

Hear! Hear! True are your words, the Barbarians may be brave, but we even can beat them, when they outnumber us, because their tactical skills are not too well. The greeks are equiped at least as good as us, and not only they could outnumber us too, if they worked together with the Epeirotes and Makedonians, they also know about tactics. Yes, we have beaten them. But remember at what cost! Here in Italy. Think of what they could do to us when we invade their homeland now.

[everyone]

Cicero enters the Curia after a private discussion with Dictator Blasio away, he appears calm.
most of the senators expect him to speak and voice an opinion, however Cicero remains silent.
Apparent that Cicero does not want to makes his opinions known now, the rest of the Curia carry on debating.

[everyone]

after a few moments of senators chattering with the neighbours, Cicero finally decides to voice his opinion.

"Firstly, I am unclear of where everybody desires our troops to be sent. It is obvious that a few support them going to Greece, while another few supports the taking of Massilia, however the targets of the rest are not known.
Secondly what we are discussing here is what is to happen after Patavium is taken, yes? If that is the case, we may have two more legions which are ready to campaign after that, would that not give us the ability to attack multiple weak targets, or a single united foe? and on the issue of Greece, which region do the senators who wish for an invasion towards there refer to? is it Peleponessos? is it Macedonia? Eprius? Aetolia? or somewhere further north? I see Legatus Servius is referring to Peleponessos, how about the rest? If we are to invade Greece, I would suggest we take Epirus (the region, not the kingdom) first; from my intelligence reports, they are rather weakly garrisoned, and are within a short sail from Italia."

"That said, it would seem the most clear option here is Epirus, though that may change anytime soon, since taking Patavium might re-ignite the war with the Gauls, or the Poeni may decide that our alliance, trade and treaties are no longer valid to them and force us to have no choice but to declare war on them."

before taking his seat, Cicero interrupted his actions

"Though I may support expanding into Greece, I do not wish to accomplish it by completely taking over their lands. If possible, we may annex a region or two and establish our culture there, to encourage cooperation rather than resistance; and only launch a full invasion when it is necessary, which is not sometime in the foreseeable future. Or eventual expansion there may continue taking the form of annexing the lands there slowly and more peacefully."

(OOC: of course by 'annexing' I refer to the way Massalia is supposed to be taken as according to edict 3.2; though FD might need to be used once we 'annex' the region to restore peace)

[Mooks]

I have a reply for all at once.

It seems to me my opponenents, im not going to call them enemies, have 2 points in mind.

1)Too soon

2)Romans need not go to the slaughterhouse that is war.

All these are noble sentiments and I respect them entirely. Though I do not share them. Im more of a city type of person, get up and go I say, but that's just me. If the majority of the senate body demands that we wait, then wait we shall. For this is a senate body and a republic first and foremost, and I respect everyone's opinion and disagreements, no matter if its against mine.

The other point, that Roman soldiers are not aplenty and that we need to wait. For the Roman soldiers to go back to their farms and live with their family again. I have a radical idea. Bare with me now...we recruit our Italic Allies. Samnites, Campanians, Lucians, Mendolians, have them serve in our legion. If you want have the whole legion be Italian allies then thats fine by me, for most of you think this is a suicide mission. And who better to go on a suicide mission then people who thirst for war? People who have been excluded in our last battles, people who have to go elsewhere to practice their skill at arms, people who have to think of being bandits and pirates just to use their skills theyre fathers and grandfathers passed down from generation to generation?

Have units of legio III reinforce legio I and II, but replace whatever went with Samnites, who are equipped in the same manner and fight in the same way as us. This should satisfy Aemilia, who wants legio III to help the other legions, which they will. And Blasio along with Avlvs who dont want romans to die.

Avlvs, I would not have insulted your cousin so if he hadnt went on the offensive with me. It is he who threw the first stone, and I couldve responded much more hotly then I had. As for the friendship thing, I would ask you to reconsider, for you are a honorable and valuable senator. I shall take back my words against your cousin if it offends you so.

I have made my proposal to change the proposal without the consent and foreknowledge of my commander. I hope he agrees with me, its not my place to change the composition of the army. Also please note we do not with war with the Epirotes, though the invasion of southern greece will help greatly if we ever do decide to get those bastards back. For its southern greece we are proposing to invade.

(OOC have the legions take the last 3 settlements, then reinforce legio III with italic allies on the extra money we have from that)

*Scipio takes his seat, and looks around to see senators flabberghasted by the proposal to use the allies. How will samnites behave in Greece? Will they loot or pillage with abandon? Or maybe this is a good time to get rid of any potential rebels so close to home, for it wasnt too long ago they were marching with Phyrrus himself.*

(OOC Edit: I posted same time as Cicero.)

[Mooks]

As said before Cicero. I do not wish to conquer the Greeks, for running foreign lands is expensive and not what we Romans have ever did outside Italia. Just replace their heads of state with friendlier ones. They are used to tyrants, and we shall not be tyrants from afar. Their own people will rule their own, even if they are not popular nothing will change.

[SwissBarbar]

"Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio" Avlvs calmly said. He repeated. "Decimvs Cornelivs Scipio. A noble name you have. The family of the Cornelii has served rome almost as well as us Aemilii, so we should not argue" Avlvs gave a quiet smile, well aware of the fact, that like the Aemilii also the Gens Cornelia envisioned themselves as the oldest and greatest Roman family. "Your thought is interesting, but yet there are points that must not be overseen.

1. Italian Allies are a well support in our armies, we should recruit them more often, I agree.

2. I disagree, that we should recruit a pure Italian-Legion. They should NEVER outnumber roman troops in a legion, or they may run over to the enemy. The last thing we need if we want to conquer Greece, is to send them 10'000 samnites, that gladly join them destroying us.

3. Even if they used to fight us, they are our allies now and are not to be wasted. When they attack us, ok, then we exterminate them, but as long as they serve us, there's no need to be cruel. If many men of our Italian Allies die in Greece or somewhere else, who pays tribute, carries for commerce with our merchants and till their fields? Their women?" Avlvs laughed. Or you, Scipio? He raised an eyebrow.

If we waste our own soldiers or our allies makes not much difference, it still would raise our enemies courage and moral, and instantly lowered the loyality of our allies, who of course would fear soon to be sent to death too.

A Cornelius - as a true Roman - surely knows the valour of our confederation - system. We cannot afford to shake it. Should we be invaded, it MUST be steadfast!"

Turning to the senators

"So I repeat, senatores, we have to proceed step by step. Let us conquer the southern Gallic cities, let us force the by this weakened Gauls to peace, and then decide what'd be best: IF we expanded our sphere of influence to Sicily, OR if we went to Iberia, OR if we subjugated the Greeks OR if we took the lands of the Illyrioi.

The safety and prosperity of the Roman people must be our ultimate ambition!"

Aemilivs looked around stony-faced and and waited a moment to bring the influence of his words to bear. Then he seated himself and whisepered something to another senator, who began to smile and nodded.