Decisions...

[Wishazu]

How do you actually edit the preferences to dissuade the AI from building a Geisha House?

[ReluctantSamurai]

Follow the link I provided and read post #3 (barocca). Within that discussion there is another link that provides detailed information of what all the numbers in the building_choice.txt file mean.

[Wishazu]

Cheers mate I must have missed it when I was reading through.

[caravel]

Imagawa 1530/Huge Units/Hard

"Western" region

This is where the action is at the moment. Ieyasu is advancing eastwards with 1600 troops. Ujizane follows with another 1000 reserves. So far Shimazu has been reluctant to fight and appears to be pulling back and regrouping. The Ashigaru general Kikuchi Torayasu holds Iyo with 1000 men. He has orders to wait and not advance further until Ieyasu reaches Bizen.

"Eastern" region

This region has not seen battle for a few years. Ando Muneharu defends the western frontier with 1000 men. Should Uesugi turn traitor and decide to come from this direction. Muneharu's teppo and archers will be ready for him as he attempts to cross the river. In Totomi the Daimyo, Yoshimoto, waits with 1400 men and in Suruga Sakai Tadatsugu guards the eastern frontier with as many. These lands saw much of the fighting in past years. It is hoped that Lord Hojo will not be so foolish again, but whatever may come to pass the men in this province are armed in readiness.

Lord Hojo made some unsuccessful attempts on Suruga resulting in some humiliating defeats that have set his faction back and have allowed Uesugi to advance. The Oda clan has reappeared under Toyotomi Hideyoshi a few years after they were wiped out by some of Yoshimoto's best Ninjas. It had been planned to take Owari at that point though the rebels there chose to join Lord Shmiazu, whom of which are in the process of being driven from Kyushu and western Honshu by Ieyasu. Uesugi has since taken Owari and attempts at stirring up unrest there have failed due to the high level of security in the area. As well as conquering, the Imagawa clan have been busy spreading the word of the one true god and making use of the new weapons brought from overseas by the vulgar foreigners. So far using these weapons and conventional warfare techniques the Imagawa have been very successful in the field.

[Thermal]

Great campaign, nice organized and defensive, but why do you always turn to christanity? It hurts law considerably and IMO gunners are poor fighters, on the assumption that is wrong please tell me to use them effectively

[Wishazu]

If you have plenty of Shinobi in place the conversion won`t really affect you. The benefits are having guns early and potential for massive income with Cathedral`s.

[caravel]

Great campaign, nice organized and defensive, but why do you always turn to christanity? It hurts law considerably and IMO gunners are poor fighters, on the assumption that is wrong please tell me to use them effectively

As Wishazu said, there's the large income from all churches once the cathedral is built plus the added bonus of fielding teppo. Religious unrest is not a factor as a good team of christian emissaries will convert any province you wish to invade in a few seasons (remember that buddhist emissaries can convert it back). You can then invade, get the Shinobi in place and then move on. As Sun Tzu said: "...it's a matter of organisation".

Fielding teppo units can be difficult and of course they're of most use defensively. Their weapons cause fear to the enemy and are good at penetrating armour. The downside is that they cannot fire in rain so you cannot rely on them entirely. When developing provinces for teppo, I tend to focus on morale and armour upgrades as much as possible. Weapon upgrades won't be of much use in most cases.

As far as tactics go I tend to take a "pike and musket" approach and I back up teppo units with YS units. The trick to any missile unit is not to order them to attack, but instead to position them correctly in a good vantage point over the enemy. It's then a matter of turning on/off fire at will and letting them find their own targets. If you manually target eneies you'll find that your line will go out of formation and the whole thing will turn into a mess. I tend to only manually target if a particular unit is closing in fast and I want to hit it with a volley before it makes contact. In such a case I would turn off skirmish mode, let the volley go off then turn off fire at will and then bring the pike line forward through the ranks of the teppo line to meet the enemy. This leaves the teppo safely behind. It's a very good idea to use YS because if the teppo do decide to rout they won't take the lesser quality YA with them.

[Adam99]

I only ever used to go Christian with Imagawa or Shimazu, the rest i remained Bhuddist. Was something satisfying though in winning with all provinces 100% Christian.

[Thermal]

As Wishazu said, there's the large income from all churches once the cathedral is built plus the added bonus of fielding teppo. Religious unrest is not a factor as a good team of christian emissaries will convert any province you wish to invade in a few seasons (remember that buddhist emissaries can convert it back). You can then invade, get the Shinobi in place and then move on. As Sun Tzu said: "...it's a matter of organisation".

Fielding teppo units can be difficult and of course they're of most use defensively. Their weapons cause fear to the enemy and are good at penetrating armour. The downside is that they cannot fire in rain so you cannot rely on them entirely. When developing provinces for teppo, I tend to focus on morale and armour upgrades as much as possible. Weapon upgrades won't be of much use in most cases.

As far as tactics go I tend to take a "pike and musket" approach and I back up teppo units with YS units. The trick to any missile unit is not to order them to attack, but instead to position them correctly in a good vantage point over the enemy. It's then a matter of turning on/off fire at will and letting them find their own targets. If you manually target eneies you'll find that your line will go out of formation and the whole thing will turn into a mess. I tend to only manually target if a particular unit is closing in fast and I want to hit it with a volley before it makes contact. In such a case I would turn off skirmish mode, let the volley go off then turn off fire at will and then bring the pike line forward through the ranks of the teppo line to meet the enemy. This leaves the teppo safely behind. It's a very good idea to use YS because if the teppo do decide to rout they won't take the lesser quality YA with them.

Thanks, I've only ever been christan with oda, i still think Buddhist is better because turning christian hinders the ability to recruit monks, however with your tactics, plus the income, i would consider christianity in a future game, plus as you've previously said, you don't play to win 100% of the time, but to have a challenging campaign.

[ReluctantSamurai]

i still think Buddhist is better because turning christian hinders the ability to recruit monks

I cannot tell you how many times the extra 1200+ koku from the cathedral has saved my butt I had a memorable Oda camp where I had 5 straight years of poor harvests, and 7 out of 10 total at one stretch. With enemies pressing on all sides I would have been worn down due to lack of funds for replacements. As it was, even with the extra income, I hung on by a fingernail..........

I also rarely use monks anymore, preferring to use Nodachi. Cheaper, faster, and excellent line-busters. Yes they take heavy casualties so I make sure they are first in line for armor upgrades which helps. Having muskets long before anyone else far outweighs the morale impact of monks, IMHO. Besides, you can have your cake and eat it too........if you capture a province with a monk dojo, you can train them like any other unit.

[Thermal]

Good point, but i've never even built a catherdral before, what are the pre-requisites?

[ReluctantSamurai]

First, of course, you must accept the Portuguese offer. Then you build a P. trading post along with six churches. The province you build the cathedral in must have a huge castle.

Word of advice....plan carefully where to put the churches and cathedral (esp the cathedral) as they take up slots in the building queue. You don't want to end up having to sacrifice a slot for something else you might need in those provinces.

Also not mentioned is the added income from the trading posts. You can have both a port and a trading post in the same province, doubling your trade income

I always push for the gun factory as quickly as possible. That requires a port province with an armory (like Hitachi, or Aki, for instance). Now you can turn out muskets instead of the arquebus....much better.

Also, once the cathedral is built, any P. trading post can now train the musket as well as the arquebus, which is absolutely fabulous for Owari and Tosa, both of which have the Ashi bonus (gunners are, after all, ashigaru).............

[Thermal]

along with six churches.

This is the bit i was missing then, thanks.

[Adam99]

Yeah its a nice little bit of income especially with the bad harvests. No-dachi, muskets and some nice yari cav works quite well.

[caravel]

Not much progress so far as i haven't played since Sunday. I've just gone back to it today and have taken Bingo and Izumo. Though the rebels turned up to fight in Izumo, the retreated at the site of Ujizane's army. The invasion of Bingo was much more bloody, with Lord Shimazu clearly resolved to fight to the death. The battle started with his army hiding in the woods and commanding the high ground with a clear tactical advantage. Ieyasu's army was forced to circle round to drive him out. This proved costly and my 4 cavalry units (2 yari + 2 naginta) suffered greatly from the enemy archers. My 4 teppo units could not find a good position and the rest of my infantry was obliged to head through the woods flushing out the enemy archers. The teppo had their moment though later in the battle, when they shot the enemy monks to pieces. Eventually the enemy were driven off until only Lord Shimazu and half a unit of CA's with no ammo remained. I caught Shimazu between YS abd Naginta cav and that was the end of him. Ieyasu's CA unit then chased down the remaining CA unit and it was over.

To summarise, slow but meaningful progress, an interesting battle and some screenshots should be up tomorrow. I'm still wondering what to do in the east. I am thinking of going all out against hojo and removing him from the equation.

[caravel]

And so it ends and now Imagawa Yoshimoto is Shogun...

Actually it was rather dull. My course of expansion started to follow my Takeda campaign. Then Uesugi became massive and I mean truly powerful. I almost contemplated sending in the Geishas at one point but instead decided to leave it the Ninjas. They did a good job and eventually the last Uesugi Daimyo - Date Masamune - fell to the assassins blade. It was then a matter of finishing of the rebels and Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Oda). The latter eventually fell in Kawachi.

I also finished off a Hojo Geisha earlier on with my honour 6 Ninja. That was very satisfying indeed.

I'm now wondering what to do next. Everyone else seems to be playing on expert so i might give that a shot again.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Perhaps a campaign starting in 1580? I don't know how much you are up for a challenge but Oda 1580 is as tough as there is, IMHO. I just wish I could crank one up myself, but my inet access is not on my own computer. Everything would have to go to disk and then transferred, etc, etc, etc. Too much of a pain.......

In a month or so I get into my new digs with inet access but I'm resigned to a bystander for now

[Wishazu]

I too was going to suggest expert Oda, but starting in 1530. I`m just curious to see how somebody else would have done it in comparison to my own Oda campaign.

[caravel]

I've just tried Oda/Expert/1550 three times. Each time I've been utterly destroyed by the Ronin in the first few seasons. In the last attempt I was forced to defend Owari from 4 units of monks and assorted others. I will try a more isolationist approach next time, only moving when I'm strong enough.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah as I recall from that campaign as soon as you take one of those ronin provinces that look like easy pickings you see a big stack of monks in the next province over...I'll have to try it out again.

[ReluctantSamurai]

One word...........guns.

[caravel]

The dutch hadn't arrived, but yes I'm going for that familiar strategy next time and I won't be heading westwards either.

[caravel]

Oda/Expert/1550


Starting out, I decided to stay put and tech up. I had accepted the Portuguese and begun upgrading Owari to produce Teppo. Then after a few years saw the opportunity and went for Imagawa. Imagawa and his few Ashigaru and Archers made an easy victory.


Imagawa had no where to run as Takeda arrived in Totomi the same season...


I decide to take on Takeda in Shinano - mainly to curb it's advancement and not take the province. The result is a close defeat with Nobunaga losing a star, but thankfully not his life. Next I decided to send in the Shinobi and got Totomi and Shinano to revolt.


Nobunaga Invades Totomi...


And does pretty well...


Shinobi activity in Suruga causes the reappearance of the Imagawa clan led by Tokugawa Ieyasu.


Toyotomi Hideyoshi leads his first successful campaign to Ise.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Interesting caravel. Just two more provinces until you can get the cathedral, what are your plans?

[caravel]

In truth I haven't got a clue...

I may make for Musashi and then go for Shinano when strong enough or I could continue westwards. The Takeda are getting stronger however so I may concentrate my efforts on keeping them down for now.

[caravel]

This is my Shimazu (Expert/Huge Units/Starting 1530) campaign so far:


So far I've moved aggressively against the ronin with Chikugo being the short term objective. I got lucky there as there were only two units of Ashigaru defending. Not much koku yet and I've had taxes pushed way up while fighting off ronin in Higo, but that now looks set to change. It looks like it could be interesting though and Lord Shimazu is never short of heirs after all.

Input as to suggested strategies will be much appreciated, as ever.

[Togakure]

With the Shimmies I've found that a constant push (no turtle) strategy works best, else whichever of the powerful eastern clans that emerge dominant are really nasty by the time you get to them. First orders of business for me are 1) securing Kyushu and a foothold on Honshu (Nagato), 2) beating Mori (Takeda? Mori is absent in one of the campaigns; I can't remember which) to control of Shikoku and the nice bonus buildings in Tosa (iirc, in 1530), and 3) defeating the Mori/Takeda while at the same time constantly pressing for Kyoto. I consider the first major phase of that campaign accomplished when I control Kawachi, Harima, Tajima, Yamashiro, and everything west of these.

Managing cash flow is always a challenge with the Shims, but you're a highly experienced SP player so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Chevauchee tactics can sometimes be necessary in order to maintain pace of expansion, and control of your enemy's (Mori's/Takeda's) expansion. Alliances are important early on for the additional income. The Shims are respected and trusted more than most other clans, so you should be able to secure several, provided your emissaries are not assassinated before they complete their missions. Iirc you start with an emissary but don't have a Tranquil Garden. So protecting your diplomats (by choosing their routes carefully and trying to anticipate ninja attack) and prioritizing a Garden is important.

The unknown for me in your scenario is huge units. I play with 60-man units so I'm not sure how playing with huge units affects things in SP. I do remember that in MP, using huge units had a drastic effect on what worked and what didn't and limited maneuverability tactics because units occupied so much more space and could effectively defend a larger area. This gave infantry a big boost and reduced cavalry effectiveness somewhat.

When I get my next Shogun itch I'll have to try some huge unit campaigns. Amazing after all the games I've played, there are still new options to try. Gotta luv Shoggie.

Edit: Oh, fight a lot of battles with experienced units and get that Swordsman event! Bonused No Dachi are a big advantage early on.

[caravel]

With the Shimmies I've found that a constant push (no turtle) strategy works best, else whichever of the powerful eastern clans that emerge dominant are really nasty by the time you get to them. First orders of business for me are 1) securing Kyushu and a foothold on Honshu (Nagato), 2) beating Mori (Takeda? Mori is absent in one of the campaigns; I can't remember which) to control of Shikoku and the nice bonus buildings in Tosa (iirc, in 1530), and 3) defeating the Mori/Takeda while at the same time constantly pressing for Kyoto. I consider the first major phase of that campaign accomplished when I control Kawachi, Harima, Tajima, Yamashiro, and everything west of these.

Well I tend to turtle a campaign, almost instincitvely, but this time around I've gone straight for the throat. Imagawa reappeared and the ronin in Hizen, Chikuzen and Buzen (re)joined them. I decided not to wait until they'd shipped in any more units from Totomi and attacked. This strategy has paid off and left me in complete control of Kyushu. My next move will probably be against Nagato, Takeda Shingen is there with a small force (probably shipped in via Aki). It would be best to deal with Shingen now before he establishes a major foothold on my doorstep.

Managing cash flow is always a challenge with the Shims, but you're a highly experienced SP player so that shouldn't be a problem for you. Chevauchee tactics can sometimes be necessary in order to maintain pace of expansion, and control of your enemy's (Mori's/Takeda's) expansion. Alliances are important early on for the additional income. The Shims are respected and trusted more than most other clans, so you should be able to secure several, provided your emissaries are not assassinated before they complete their missions. Iirc you start with an emissary but don't have a Tranquil Garden. So protecting your diplomats (by choosing their routes carefully and trying to anticipate ninja attack) and prioritizing a Garden is important.

I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)

The unknown for me in your scenario is huge units. I play with 60-man units so I'm not sure how playing with huge units affects things in SP. I do remember that in MP, using huge units had a drastic effect on what worked and what didn't and limited maneuverability tactics because units occupied so much more space and could effectively defend a larger area. This gave infantry a big boost and reduced cavalry effectiveness somewhat.

I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).

When I get my next Shogun itch I'll have to try some huge unit campaigns. Amazing after all the games I've played, there are still new options to try. Gotta luv Shoggie.

Edit: Oh, fight a lot of battles with experienced units and get that Swordsman event! Bonused No Dachi are a big advantage early on.

Yes I've managed that now. It took longer than usual this time around. I'm about to train some of the famed Satsuma Nodachi.

I'll post an updated map this evening.

[Togakure]

Well I tend to turtle a campaign, almost instincitvely, but this time around I've gone straight for the throat. Imagawa reappeared and the ronin in Hizen, Chikuzen and Buzen (re)joined them. I decided not to wait until they'd shipped in any more units from Totomi and attacked. This strategy has paid off and left me in complete control of Kyushu. My next move will probably be against Nagato, Takeda Shingen is there with a small force (probably shipped in via Aki). It would be best to deal with Shingen now before he establishes a major foothold on my doorstep.

I'd forgotten that the Imagawa start with Hizen in that campaign. I race up and try to take Chikugo (the river province) before they do. River battles as the attacker can be costly. I then take Hizen asap, to take control of or destroy the port. That's a tough break you describe--creates a delay, allowing the Takeda to strengthen their western position. Good thing you acted quickly. If Shingen is in the game then it's past 1536. In that scenario (1530) I try to deal with Shingen before he arrives (by sacking Aki asap, and any other Takeda-controlled, troop-producing province in the west if others have been built, forcing his spawn in the east). Shingen can be a bit of a pain when encountered early on.before you've established a solid income. The western lands are poor, and it takes time and investment to get the ports and mines going.

I've now accepted the Portuguese and have a lot of Christian emissaries. I have one question that's just occured to me: Is there any value in still training Buddhist emissaries to deal with the Buddhist Daimyos? (funnily enough I've never considered that before)

Priests are cheaper. I believe emissaries are more likely to succeed when dealing with Buddhist clans, priests with Christian clans. Christian clans won't use assassins to kill priests iirc.

I've always played on huge units since STW v1.0. And when I got MTW I went straight into huge units as well. I'm one of those people that buys a game and goes straight into the options messing about before I play it. I definitely find it more immersive and more challenging. I've tried the smaller unit sizes and had a spell playing on the next size down, but in the end I returned to huge. One of the main factors is the two season training time. This means you have to think ahead and you can't just train a unit just in time (i.e. as an enemy is about to invade).

Interesting. My primary enjoyment comes from the battles, and my favorite units are cavalry. Hence I like having small units that allow for more maneuvering and flanking on STW's relatively small maps.

Each training center I build usually specializes in one type of unit. I don't build many of them, usually one per unit type that I use (Spear, Archer, Cav, Shock). Though I can't in the earliest stages of the game, once my economy gets going, I build a unit a turn whether I need it immediately or not, keeping a "chain" of reinforcements flowing to the front. This would take longer with huge units, but the end result is similar. I've found that this method is pretty much necessary when employing a constant expansion strategy. It will be interesting to see how huge units affects this method. I am used to finishing a 1530 game between 1550 and 1555. I think huge units will drastically affect how the game turns out. I'll have to try it and see if I find it enjoyable. At the very least it will be different--that's something I haven't experienced in STW for a while.

Looking forward to seeing how things turn out.

[caravel]

Shingen will provide an interesting challenge - and if I lose well that is the "way of the warrior" after all. I've never had issues with the huge units on the smaller maps - I suppose I prefer the smaller maps as the MTW maps seemed a bit too large to me and units tire completely walking from one side to the other anyway.

That reminds me... I've noticed a "bug". I can't believe I've never noticed this before... When moving groups around they tend to always "run".

I've not played STW/MI extensively - I had finished the game several times before MI was released - and I don't remember this problem in STW v1.x (but maybe it was always there and I had never noticed). Any ideas on a workaround or solution for this? It's very annoying having to move units one at a time to stop them running and tiring out...