Will ETW retail be a standalone version (no Steam install)?

[Sir Beane]

You know Jack.....may I call you jack.....we would all understand how steam works alot more.....if we had...........a demo

If you keep asking for that demo someone at CA is going to give the order to have you 'disposed of'.

@ BeenPlayingSinceRTW

I have read the agreement,and I stand by what I said about it not being legally binding. End User License Agreements which are agreed to by clicking on a tickbox would be extremely hard to legally enforce. As far as I know no games company has ever actually attempted to prosecute someone for breaking an EULA, and would probably not succeed if they did.

It may suprise you, but companies say all kinds of things that they cannot legally enforce.

Have you ever seen a 'no refunds' sign in a shop? I have in the UK, despite the fact that this is illegal under fair trading laws. A car park which claims that you 'park here at your own risk' is wrong, if your car is damaged then they can be held responsible.

Recently EA games has found itself at the end of a class action lawsuit because it did something that it's EULA say's is fine. The lawyers on the side of the customers disagree however.

Even if Valve say they can install pieces of software without your consent, they cannot, and will not.

[BeenPlayingSinceRTW]

I have read the agreement,and I stand by what I said about it not being legally binding. End User License Agreements which are agreed to by clicking on a tickbox would be extremely hard to legally enforce. As far as I know no games company has ever actually attempted to prosecute someone for breaking an EULA, and would probably not succeed if they did.

So by your logic, it is legal for someone to disregard the ETW EULA and develop a crack for the game that bypasses the Steam DRM and distribute the game on bittorrent? Since the ETW agreement is non-binding?

[Sir Beane]

So by your logic, it is legal for someone to disregard the ETW EULA and develop a crack for the game that bypasses the Steam DRM and distribute the game on bittorrent? Since the ETW agreement is non-binding?

No, because that would violate international copyrite laws. It is, however, legal for me to install a game on more than one PC even though a gane's EULA likes to pretend I can only put the game I legally own on one of my computers.

[Polemists]

If you keep asking for that demo someone at CA is going to give the order to have you 'disposed of'.

I live in a far off land, CA has nothing on me :P, and we shall see who visits who if the demo dosn't come

[Monk]

Hey guys.

I know that this is a topic that people like to discuss very passionately, but please, let's try to keep things civil. We don't want the lock crew* coming down on this thread.

Thanks for dropping in and shedding a bit of light on the subject Jack, we weren't sure if we would be able to play offline for a while there. I know it was at the forefront of many minds.

*Starring Martok and Nelson. This Fall on NBC

[Polemists]

I know that this is a topic that people like to discuss very passionately, but please, let's try to keep things civil. We don't want the lock crew* coming down on this thread.

Yes, people, let's keep our passions in check, let's not get out of control over wanting a single item..........

Okay who am I kidding.

Steam though seems okay since you don't have to be online to use it.

I guess it's like a launch window and has a offline mode.

I havn't used steam since Half Life 1 I think, or blue shift maybe so no idea.

[Sir Beane]

Yes, people, let's keep our passions in check, let's not get out of control over wanting a single item..........

Okay who am I kidding.

Steam though seems okay since you don't have to be online to use it.

I guess it's like a launch window and has a offline mode.

I havn't used steam since Half Life 1 I think, or blue shift maybe so no idea.

That's exactly what Steam is like. Boot up Steam in offline mode, browse list of games, pick a game, play. No disk required.

[Monk]

Yes, people, let's keep our passions in check, let's not get out of control over wanting a single item..........

[BeenPlayingSinceRTW]

Even if Valve say they can install pieces of software without your consent, they cannot, and will not.

Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but I think that probably the tens of thousands of attorneys who draft EULAs for virtually every software company in the world (not to mention, the executives at those software companies) have a better understanding of the law than you do.

Here are the sections of the agreement ( http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/ )that may be of interest:

This section of the Steam agreement gives Valve the right to automatically download any software they want onto your PC, once you've installed the Steam client:

2. LICENSES
A. License Terms.
Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of software and other content and updates onto your computer ("Steam Software"). You may not use Steam Software for any purpose other than the permitted access to Steam and your Subscriptions. You understand that for reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Steam may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions or otherwise enhance the Steam Software and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Steam Software may change over time. You understand that neither this Agreement nor the terms associated with a particular Subscription entitles you to future updates, new versions or other enhancements of the Steam Software associated with a particular Subscription although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

This section of the Steam agreement gives Valve the right to use or resell data about ETW customers without CA or Sega's (or the end user's) approval:

7. USER GENERATED INFORMATION
"User Generated Information" means any information made available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam or to Valve through your use of the Steam Software. User Generated Information may include, but is not limited to, chat, forum posts, screen names, game selections, player performances, usage data, suggestions about Valve products or services, and error notifications. Subject to the Valve privacy policy referenced in Section 1 above, as applicable, you expressly grant Valve the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

[Martok]

It seems this thread has permanently drifted off the original topic. And since the original question has long since been answered anyway....