Palestinians in Gaza blaming ... Hamas?

**Hooahguy** · 01-26-2009, 22:11

Originally Posted by Idaho

I don't have any problem with us jews being hell bent on survival. I just have a problem if us jews decide that we need to kill 200 children as collective punishment for 10 Israelis dying.

its not just 10 jews dieing. its many more. just from the start of the operation, 10 jews have died.
do you know that the people in sderot only have 10 seconds to get to shelter? do you know that life has stopped there? no buisness, very little goes on in the streets. people are terrified to go out. no one should live in terror, which they have for since the rockets first started falling.

btw, what do you mean by "us jews" when i said that i was referring to myself and other jews.

**Idaho** · 01-26-2009, 22:28

Originally Posted by hooahguy

its not just 10 jews dieing. its many more. just from the start of the operation, 10 jews have died.
do you know that the people in sderot only have 10 seconds to get to shelter? do you know that life has stopped there? no buisness, very little goes on in the streets. people are terrified to go out. no one should live in terror, which they have for since the rockets first started falling.

You won't find me justifying that. The rocket attacks need to stop. But killing hundreds of kids? Is that really contributing to the solution or merely adding to the injustice?

btw, what do you mean by "us jews" when i said that i was referring to myself and other jews.

Me too

**Hooahguy** · 01-26-2009, 23:12

Originally Posted by Idaho

Me too

you are jewish?

**rory_20_uk** · 01-26-2009, 23:17

Originally Posted by hooahguy

you are jewish?

No!!!!!!!!! He...... Can't...... be!!!

I mean, he's saying random killing isn't a good thing...

There must be some impure Gentile blood in there somewhere

**Hooahguy** · 01-26-2009, 23:23

Originally Posted by rory_20_uk

No!!!!!!!!! He...... Can't...... be!!!

I mean, he's saying random killing isn't a good thing...

im not saying that being jewish automatically makes you a supporter of israel. i was just surprised that he was. is being surprised a crime?

i do not believe that the IDF randomly kills kids. the 200 + dead children is very tragic, but i do not believe that the IDF goes on missions with the aim of killing children. that is not what my friends who have served in Gaza and the IDF have said, and there isnt anything that you can say that will make me think otherwise, unless the IDF says "our purpose is to kill children," which they have never said.

**Hooahguy** · 01-26-2009, 23:49

ok tribes. here ya go- her words exactly as he sent them to me:

From United States Holocaust Memorial Museum website

With over 80,000 Jewish DPs in the United States, about 136,000 in Israel, and another 20,000 in other nations, including Canada and South Africa, the DP emigration crisis came to an end. Almost all of the DP camps were closed by 1952. The Jewish displaced persons began new lives in their new homelands around the world.

There are other estimates but what is clear is that the biggest number went to Israel. It’s hard to know precisely how many stayed in Europe since many were behind the Iron Curtain and we could never get a clear count. The estimate is that 250,000 survived as Displaced Persons [DPs]. There were certainly survivors who never went to the DP camps, e.g. in Poland, USSR, etc.

Deborah E. Lipstadt, Ph.D.

Dorot Professor of Modern Jewish and Holocaust Studies

Emory University

those are her words and i swear by them.

**Tribesman** · 01-27-2009, 01:39

ok tribes. here ya go- her words exactly as he sent them to me:

Is that like the professor who told you of the existance of a non-existant law ?

So from the Weisenthal center concerning holocaust survivors

about three-quarters of them returned to their former homelands.

Former homelands eh not Palestine

Jews from western Europe (France, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Norway), Hungary (the largest group), Rumania, and Czechoslovakia were eager to be repatriated so that they could look for their families, reclaim their possessions, and reestablish themselves.

Yep not Palestine then .
But its OK I understand your confusion , what you and your profesor is doing is ignoring the actual survivors of the holocaust but then adding those who later fled from the communists to make up the numbers so they sound better .

**Idaho** · 01-27-2009, 16:46

Originally Posted by hooahguy

you are jewish?

Enough of one to qualify for Israeli citizenship.

**Don Corleone** · 01-27-2009, 16:57

I'm curious folks, and I'm taking an informal poll, tangentially related to the thread topic. We have a 'usual suspects' list of those who play apologist for the IDF versus those who play apologist for Hamas. While the degree of defense (and denial) varies among members on each side, at the end of the day, I believe the lines are pretty set.

Normally in politics, 1/3 argues with the other 1/3 for mindshare of the undecided 1/3 in the middle. On this particular issue, there is no middle, and it's rare, if not strictly hypothetical, for somebody's views to shift on this issue.

I know Idaho and Tribesman are always going to agree with the Palestinians. And I know CR & Hooahguy are going to come down on the side of the Israelis. There's never going to be any deviation from that predetermined result.

So, like Sisyphus with his rock, we roll this debate out about once a month. I'm as guilty as anyone. But I find myself asking, myself and all of you, why do we continue to debate this? Do any of us really honestly believe we're not in the Verdun of backroom conversations? Do any of you have any hope of climbing out of the trench and advancing, or of evolving your own line of thought, for that matter?

I'm serious about this... I'm really curious regardless of your stance, whether you have any marginal hope or belief that you might actually influence anyone's views on this issue, and if so, what supports you in that delusion?

Please respond to this post of Don's in the thread created for this discussion. Thanks. SF

**Don Corleone** · 01-27-2009, 17:18

No need, I'll start a new thread, with an actual poll.

**LittleGrizzly** · 01-27-2009, 17:31

let me be clear about something. i am both pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian. i want a Palestinian country to live peacefully side-by-side with Israel. i do not want the destruction of the Palestinian people. i want them to live and prosper, but live peacefully.

I think pretty much everyone who debates the issue wants all you said for both people... unless we have anyone here who literally does hate jews or muslims (which i don't think we do...) ... with the only slight variation being some people prefer the idea of 1 state instead of the 2 state solution...

The pro palestinian and pro israeli labels are simply convenient ways of identifying the different sides, i describe myself as pro-palestinian just because of where i usually end up in the agument but i am by no means a fan of hamas in any way... and being 'pro-palestinian' doesn't make me anti-israeli, i have never met an israeli but i would have no problems with him/her if i did...

**LittleGrizzly** · 01-27-2009, 17:58

And let's not forget the simple fact that he is a member of the notoriously anti-Israeli socialist party, not very surprising that most neo-nazi's vote for the SP, also very close buddies of the international socialists, and you know who that are don't you.

I don't now what your nazis are like over there but ours (the BNP) absolutely hates muslims (no mention of jews) they even have the famous undercover bbc video where one of the head members says 'all i want to do is kill pakistani's' (though he uses the rude name) Infact the majority of racists in the UK tend to choose muslims as thier target group of choice, i can't tell you how many times in real life i have heard the sentence 'im not racist but i don't like pakistani's'

just incase your wondering pakistani (or the shortened version) is the name muslims usually get grouped under... something like calling all asian people chinese...