Battle Time Length?

[Sir Beane]

The most enjoyable way to play a TW game, is IMHO as a political simulator, in a way. Not purely management, as Civilisation, but heavily centered around diplomacy, religion, family dynasties and such.

Going out and randomly conquering is much less gratifying than having roleplayed different reasons for fighting (just as real life, war starts for a specific reason, not just for the sake of it). My empires are almost always one of the smaller ones on the map, as I in a Machiavellian way try to unbalance factions that are too big for their boots, and rarely do I gather my full army and go on a slaughtering rampage.

For just the right challenge, I often only attack with an army about 1/3 the size of the enemy. That is in MTW, mind you. In RTW, you can send forth your factionleader's wife equipped with a butterknife and still, claim victory!

This is exactly the way I play the game. I often play merely to see what happens, rather than to go conquering the whole world.

A favourite game of mine is to play as a faction that can easily defend it's position (England is best for this). I build up my economy early on, take all of Britain and Ireland as soon as possible, and then focus on building up a trading Empire.

After I'm rolling in florins I use bribery, agents, diplomacy and a small but high tech elite army to mess around with the rest of Europe. It's fun to cause wars, give random factions provinces in odd places, launch crusades at strange targets and occasionally invade the mainland for a laugh and then give the land I take to the Pope.

I very rarely end up actually winning these games (although I could If I actually tried) but it's rather a lot of fun just messing around creating a story within the campaign. If Englang had been ruled my way for the Medieval period history would be much, much more intersting.

[Durango]

This is exactly the way I play the game. I often play merely to see what happens, rather than to go conquering the whole world.

Yeah, and the other factions are also interesting to watch as much as your own

In ETW, the possibilities are greater since the cultures of all the factions are more diverse. We could for example play as a European nation, and then abandon our capital after settling in the forests of North America! This way, an "empire in exile" could try to co-exist with the natives instead of subduing them. Maybe even try to be like them and fight off all your fellow European nations?

A favourite game of mine is to play as a faction that can easily defend it's position (England is best for this). I build up my economy early on, take all of Britain and Ireland as soon as possible, and then focus on building up a trading Empire.

England is surely a favourite faction for me too, really good strategic position and very interesting unit roster as well. Sometimes I keep Scottish rebels around just to try and roleplay the rebellions there throughout the period

"The trouble with Scotland....... its that it's full of Scots!"

After I'm rolling in florins I use bribery, agents, diplomacy and a small but high tech elite army to mess around with the rest of Europe. It's fun to cause wars, give random factions provinces in odd places, launch crusades at strange targets and occasionally invade the mainland for a laugh and then give the land I take to the Pope.

Ah, creating an army of battle-hardened Grognards from your very best troops have always been one of the pleasures of the Total War series, and ETW will even add to this by allowing us to name the units! Much rejoicing I have felt at such a simple feature, but the small things really matter. And as you said, "messing" rather than destroying is my Modus Operandi for maximum fun

I very rarely end up actually winning these games (although I could If I actually tried) but it's rather a lot of fun just messing around creating a story within the campaign. If Englang had been ruled my way for the Medieval period history would be much, much more intersting.

Winning? No, no, winning is not the point. The journey is the goal, man. Awaiting bizarre and unexpected things to happen while I am just one of many factions in the political snakepit that is Europe is the real beauty of the game! Sometimes I also play according to the V&V/Traits of the ruling family (not just the king, but generals and princes also). Piety through the roof? Crusades it is then! And even trying your own family and friends for heresy - and the Pope must be obeyed!

Ha, ha, I have such an urge to play now, it's sickening!

On topic now. I want battle times in the range of about 20 minutes realistically speaking. That is, what we can expect given the lengths of battles in previous games. And something which ties into this is the frequency of battles in the campaign game. Personally, having to fight smaller engagements is fun when I choose to do so, which is the difference between the old RTW engine and what I hope the new will deliver.

There should be small, optional battles. Almost like missions, that give a reward. Not purely a threat, since small skirmishes are by definition not threatening but only irritating if you have to fight. Say that a band of pirates pop up that mainly harasses your allies' fleets. Since I love the feeling of helping allies, they would present a neat oppurtunity for glory and practice. Contrast this with having the pirates constantly bothering only you...

Now, big battles should be DECISIVE and important. I also like units to be expensive and valuable so that you feel more attached to them. In fact, I have modded the MedMod for MTW:VI to have higher costs and upkeep, and longer training times to make gameplay more realistic. Immersion is lost to me
when you can just pump units to no end. I want planning to factor in, and want to be distressed when my "Garde Imperiale" is annihilated in a glorious charge against the thin red line.

[KozaK13]

I think 20 mins would be a max, after all, who knows what will pop up in real life when your in the middle of a battle.

[scipiosgoblin]

You guys play too fast for me. I'm a pause button wuss. If I can play a battle in under an hour I'm happy. My wife's not, but I am.

I don't think of this as cheating. The computer knows where everything is and has perfect command and control. When the computer has to play based on what the general sees, then I will too.

SG

[Incongruous]

This is very much my favourite thread, I wish I could give tea and hobnobs to all involved...

I am so looking foreward to my ability to fight battles in the mould of Blenheim, vast armies commanded by different generals, playing a game of manouvre before one side beleives it has the upperhand, initiating the finishing move of a cavalry charge!

Just imagine all the streams, hills, hedgerows and walls to play with, I agree that proper battles should be long and important affairs, but seldom reccuring due to the devastating effect they could have. But they should not mean the full fledged destruction of an army or nation, merely the slight adjustment of a few red lines on a map.

[USS Providence 1972]

My guess is land battles will be longer but it will depend on the number of units involved. The ability of infantry to form squares should prevent the RTW tactic of bringing cavalry around behind engaged infantry and causing them to panic. That, plus the ranged nature of battles and more involved terrain factors should extend the length.

Naval battles I don't know about but this video is a clue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxiRP1A0uKU

The battle entailed five ships on each side and appears to be nearing a conclusion after 8 1/2 minutes. There didn't appear to be much tactical maneuvering, just toe to toe fighting for the most part.

[Polemists]

A interesting conversation.

I'd say 20 minutes sounds about right, bare in mind while some of the fanatics here may play battle after battle again and again, alot of casual gamers eventually just do auto resolve later on. So to do anything as elborate as a hour long battle is a bit much for the CA staff.

You can still have it with high enough numbers I assume, but we will see.

Usually for it comes down to how quickly morale breaks. So if morale starts breaking 10 minutes in, another 5 minutes to make it scatter through army, 5 minutes to mop up, and yep 20 minutes sounds about right.

Judging by the screens and videos i've seen it appears that musket fire is pretty deadly, so units will be dying alot faster then in past games I assume.

As for naval battles, all depends how many volleys a ship takes before sinking. However I've seen alot of people comment on 20 v 20. Just a small note, so far, in the game, it seems the standard encounter is about 5 v 5 or 3 v 2. So 20 v 20 will be the odd circumstance not the norm i assume.

I mean this is only a 200 turn game, and CA has stated ships will take time to build, so you may be quite a bit into the game before you can get a 20 ship fleet.

[IlDuce]

You guys play too fast for me. I'm a pause button wuss. If I can play a battle in under an hour I'm happy. My wife's not, but I am.

I don't think of this as cheating. The computer knows where everything is and has perfect command and control. When the computer has to play based on what the general sees, then I will too.

SG

Total pause button wuss as well here. I enjoy it as something akin to a game of chess. Sure it might drag on but I just enjoy maximising strategy and minimising me having to micromanage 20 units.

And definitely agree with the earlier posts about how it's more fun making unusual events happen and playing with the balance of power. One of my favourite things to do is to invade an entire large faction with lots of neghbours, then abandon it to rebels and see who steps in to fill the void, started quite large wars this way. Or giving away some adjoining provinces to a faction that are well away from where the rest of their provinces are and see how long they last.

With the improved diplomacy system it looks like there's tons of fun to be had with this style. I'm going to try and create a complex web of alliances then start WWI early.

[Polemists]

Should be alot of fun.

I like pausing it helps with the game length.


One thing I enjoyed doing was pausing, ordering all my units, then zooming into my general to see him raise his sword and all the units scatter about to do thier thing. After Shogun and MTW1 it was so nice to see that little animation.

Not sure if they will still do that in ETW but I'm hoping for a trumpet or something

[Durango]

A 20 minute average seems reasonable to me, not too long and not too short.

Reasonable perhaps, but ideally the game would be so moddable that you could have 5 hour battles if one so pleased. I want to fear going to battle again

Total pause button wuss as well here. I enjoy it as something akin to a game of chess. Sure it might drag on but I just enjoy maximising strategy and minimising me having to micromanage 20 units.

I see...I too enjoy a slower game of maneuvering, akin to chess.

But the pause button? No way man. Might as well have your mommy bring you milk and cookies while the AI does their turns

And definitely agree with the earlier posts about how it's more fun making unusual events happen and playing with the balance of power. One of my favourite things to do is to invade an entire large faction with lots of neghbours, then abandon it to rebels and see who steps in to fill the void, started quite large wars this way. Or giving away some adjoining provinces to a faction that are well away from where the rest of their provinces are and see how long they last.

Or try to survive limiting yourself to only a maximum of three provinces no matter what. Anything other than destroying everyone as fast as you can. I don't want to kill all my neighbours, they're my friends!
Unless they cross me, then I'll bury them.

With the improved diplomacy system it looks like there's tons of fun to be had with this style. I'm going to try and create a complex web of alliances then start WWI early.

Grand Coalitions, yes. With me in the shadows, profiting, orchestrating, scheming, and turning friends against foes only to satisfy my dark desires of chaos and disruption.

"Some men aren't looking for anything logical....some men just want to watch the world burn."

[Polemists]

I see...I too enjoy a slower game of maneuvering, akin to chess.

But the pause button? No way man. Might as well have your mommy bring you milk and cookies while the AI does their turns

The only way I know to slow the game is the pause button, you can increase speed and decrease it but by default it starts at 1.0.

I enjoy pausing and issuing orders at the start, then seeing where things go from there.

Some people enjoy to just skip deployment and not even pause to issue orders, just push it forward in real time from go.

I prefer though the speech, the deployment, then issuing orders and watching it play out. Then I can always hit pause again if need or play the rest in real time.

It's one of the joys of Total War over other RTS, it's turn based and real time :) everyone happy.