Who were the roman republic's worst enemies?

[Cyclops]

I agree with whoever said whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger...

I believe it was Neitsche, and he was completely bananas. A stroke may not kill you but its not going to make you superman.

[mikil100]

I believe it was Neitsche, and he was completely bananas. A stroke may not kill you but its not going to make you superman.

But we're talking of history, and in a sense, you get a stroke and you may learn to eat healthier (if it was a clot, ect...) The Romans learned to adapt, and it does seem like when they aren't fighting outside enemies, they fought themselves.

[soup_alex]

I believe it was Neitsche, and he was completely bananas. A stroke may not kill you but its not going to make you superman.

Ahem,
"You had best be trolling", sir.

Also, how exactly do we define a "stand-up fight" if not on terms acceptable to the Romans? Just because some barbarians preferred (?) to fight from ambush does not guarantee that their method of warfare was inferior, only different; just as the parthians' predisposition to fight with bow from horseback doesn't make them less capable of winning wars than any other nation. A Roman loss from anything but a "stand-up fight" doesn't necessarily mean that their adversaries were "cheating" (although they no doubt chose to see it this way at the time, sore losers that they were), more likely it was a Roman inability to adapt its tactics.

Not that you don't raise a fair point here and there! but provocative statements like the above (accusation that barbarians "never won a stand up fight") probably do more to undermine your arguments than support them.



Now, I'm going to duck out of this Big Boys History Discussion humbly as I may, as I don't feel qualified to comment further... and for my bit, I vote Carthage for the Republic's greatest foe (Hanno, you bloody clart!)

[Cyclops]

Ahem,
"You had best be trolling", sir.

I take mikil100's point about learning from your defeats, but the principle that "anything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger" is simply claptrap, and I believe Nietzsche (please forgive my clumsy variant spellings) did suffer from mental ilness, which is no laughing matter.

Also, how exactly do we define a "stand-up fight" if not on terms acceptable to the Romans? Just because some barbarians preferred (?) to fight from ambush does not guarantee that their method of warfare was inferior, only different; just as the parthians' predisposition to fight with bow from horseback doesn't make them less capable of winning wars than any other nation. A Roman loss from anything but a "stand-up fight" doesn't necessarily mean that their adversaries were "cheating" (although they no doubt chose to see it this way at the time, sore losers that they were), more likely it was a Roman inability to adapt its tactics.

Not that you don't raise a fair point here and there! but provocative statements like the above (accusation that barbarians "never won a stand up fight") probably do more to undermine your arguments than support them.

You're quite right and Frostwulf has correctly pulled me up on the same point, I went too far in saying the Germans never won a fair fight. I meant to say they never won a fair fight in the Roman heartland like Hannibal did. They did win fights against the Romans (fair and foul) on or beyond the Roman frontier, and were part of many wins under Roman leadership.

Now, I'm going to duck out of this Big Boys History Discussion humbly as I may, as I don't feel qualified to comment further... and for my bit, I vote Carthage for the Republic's greatest foe (Hanno, you bloody clart!)

In the end we all seem to agree, Hannibal is the big bad wolf. Whats a clart?

[soup_alex]

I take mikil100's point about learning from your defeats, but the principle that "anything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger" is simply claptrap, and I believe Nietzsche (please forgive my clumsy variant spellings) did suffer from mental ilness, which is no laughing matter.

I still think there's something in it, though you're perhaps not to take it too literally under certain circumstances (although Nietzsche would have it differently, bless him). Also, I hadn't known before now that this motto(?) was one of Nietzsche's (though it doesn't surprise me, on reflection: I must have gotten fed up with Zarathustra before those explicit words), or even that he was definitely mentally ill, which shows you what I know.

You're quite right and Frostwulf has correctly pulled me up on the same point, I went too far in saying the Germans never won a fair fight. I meant to say they never won a fair fight in the Roman heartland like Hannibal did. They did win fights against the Romans (fair and foul) on or beyond the Roman frontier, and were part of many wins under Roman leadership.

Apologies for taking your words the wrong way. I wonder if the Germans (or anyone else apart from the Celts and Carthage for that matter) couldn't have made significant incursions into Roman Italy if they'd been united under a strong head and felt that there was profit in such an invasion?

In the end we all seem to agree, Hannibal is the big bad wolf. Whats a clart?

A clart is somebody who disbands your navy, refuses to pay mercenaries who can potentially hold your empire to ransom, and denies reinforcements to one of the greatest generals (and dare I say, dudes*) to have ever lived after years in the field on enemy soil. I might be overlooking some historical context here (I honestly don't know, THX ROME for burning Carthage), and I suppose I am a Barcid; but you must agree ("hindsight is 20/20" duly considered) that under most circumstances responsibility for the above would put you pretty firmly in the clart/git/eejit/arse/fool camp.


*"When Africanus followed up by asking whom he ranked third, Hannibal unhesitatingly chose himself. Scipio burst out laughing at this, and said: 'What would you have said if you had defeated me?' 'In that case', replied Hannibal, 'I should certainly put myself before Alexander and before Pyrrhus - in fact, before all other generals!'"—Livy, "Hannibal and Scipio: BROS 4 LYF"