Legion vs. Phalanx online tournament

[Tolg]

Repeating myself here, but I think this tournament will bring us together as we tell tales and grudgingly respect each other. That is, if it is done in good spirits and with sportsmanship.

Good idea to make it. Perhaps at some point people who prefers Suebi, Casse or whatever can participate as well.

If this time goes well I'd love to do it like Potocello said: A monthly (or perhaps every second month depending how much time is needed for the preparations and the battles itself) tournament with different factions each month. (e.g. Celts VS Germans, Barbaroi Vs "civilized" people, HA-factions against each other etc.)



And here's the replay of our test battle: Link

[antisocialmunky]

That battle confuses me...

[Βελισάριος]

Who is this... Wursti person? Some videos would definitely be nice.

In the meantime, I borrowed Photoshop from a friend and started fiddling with it.
Here's what I came up with so far:
Nevermind...

There'll be more to come. And if you'd like a personalised one I could do that.
In the meantime, I'd like any screenshots you can throw at me. With mighty charges, furious clashes, fearsome fighting... anything as long as it has Roman, Hellenic units or (especially) both.

[antisocialmunky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiuWcv-Rp5M by Wurstiworks

[Potocello]

thats pretty cool Burebista

[alexanderthegreater]

It seems to me we have 4 roman and 6 greek generals. If anyone would chance side we'd be even.

[Maion Maroneios]

Nice sig you cooked up there, Burebista, though there is a spelling mistake that's quite striking. Hellenes is written as ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ in Greek, the second 'e' is a long one, also named 'eta'. The rest are plain epsilons.

Maion

[alexanderthegreater]

Here's a screenshot:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stop, in the name of Rome!

Btw, one rule of the tournament obviously is that the hellenic generals need to use phalanxes. But as to the koinon hellenon, do hoplite phalanxes count or just the ones that have the "can form a phalanx" ability?

[HunGeneral]

Stop, in the name of Rome!

.
Now thats a good one

[alexanderthegreater]

I was playing as the greeks taking rhegion in that screenshot. I seriously lold when seeing that guy blocking my way.

Then i ordered my scythian and kretan archers take him down.

[Tolg]

Here's a screenshot:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Stop, in the name of Rome!

Btw, one rule of the tournament obviously is that the hellenic generals need to use phalanxes. But as to the koinon hellenon, do hoplite phalanxes count or just the ones that have the "can form a phalanx" ability?

I suggest you post that one in the screenshot competition, I'd definitely vote for you. O.o

[IrishHitman]

Makedonia - 2 types of armies (Late Alexandrian, Reformed)

Late Alexandrian Army

Infantry: A solid line of phalanx troops (about 8) of mixed quality (Deuteroi, Pezhetairoi, Misthophoroi Pezhetairoi, Argyraspides). Thureophoroi, Agrianikoi Pelekophoroi, Peltastai (including Thraikioi), Hoplitai (Haploi and normal) for flankers.

Cavalry: 4 units max. More accurate, it should be even less, about 2-3. This includes the Strategos.

Ranged: 4 units of missile troops (including Kretikoi/Rhodioi Sphendonetai and excluding Akontistai) maximum.

Reformed Army

Same as previous, but instead of Pezhetairoi you have the Hysteroi guys. And quite many of them as well (about 4 out of 8). Also, use more mercenaries than normally, with Thraikioi and Illyrioi being the norm.
[/CENTER]

I agree with this for the most part, although I'd impose stricter controls on the late Alexandrian army, like this:

Late Alexandrian:
2 Argyraspides, 2 Pezhetairoi, 3 levy.
1 Hypaspist unit, 1 Thracian peltasts and 1 Agrianian unit min.
I may include 1 Illyrian peltast unit as well, if they exist in EB.
I guess a regular peltast unit could fill the unit gap on that one.

Min 1 - Max 2 Companions, Min 1 - Max 2 Thessalians.

Min 1 Cretan archers.

The last four slots should be filled with League of Corinth (Southern Greek) troops, of various stripe.
Hoplites mostly, though I'd also place some medium cavalry in there for accuracy as I'll explain*.

If my reading of JR Hamilton's introduction to Arrian's Campaigns of Alexander is correct, then that should present the most realistic Alexandrian army.

Though the cavalry is still disproportionately large if the max is used... By a factor of two.
Hamilton states that when Alexander crossed the Hellespont, he had 30-43 thousand infantry (including ranged) and 4-5 thousand cavalry. The proportion would have stayed the same until Alexander dismissed his Thessalians in Media, and Persian melee/horse archer battalions were formed.

The proportion between Companian and Thessalian cavalry is stated as exactly equal at 1,800 each, with the League cavalry making up the rest*.

[alexanderthegreater]

I agree with this for the most part, although I'd impose stricter controls on the late Alexandrian army, like this:

Late Alexandrian:
2 Argyraspides, 2 Pezhetairoi, 3 levy.
1 Hypaspist unit, 1 Thracian peltasts and 1 Agrianian unit min.
I may include 1 Illyrian peltast unit as well, if they exist in EB.
I guess a regular peltast unit could fill the unit gap on that one.

Min 1 - Max 2 Companions, Min 1 - Max 2 Thessalians.

Min 1 Cretan archers.

The last four slots should be filled with League of Corinth (Southern Greek) troops, of various stripe.
Hoplites mostly, though I'd also place some medium cavalry in there for accuracy as I'll explain*.

If my reading of JR Hamilton's introduction to Arrian's Campaigns of Alexander is correct, then that should present the most realistic Alexandrian army.

Though the cavalry is still disproportionately large if the max is used... By a factor of two.
Hamilton states that when Alexander crossed the Hellespont, he had 30-43 thousand infantry (including ranged) and 4-5 thousand cavalry. The proportion would have stayed the same until Alexander dismissed his Thessalians in Media, and Persian melee/horse archer battalions were formed.

The proportion between Companian and Thessalian cavalry is stated as exactly equal at 1,800 each, with the League cavalry making up the rest*.

I think this is wayyyy to strict, we have to allow some creativity to the generals and we don't want every matchup to be the same. I would say:

Min 6 phalanx/legionaires
Max 4 cavalry
Max 4 missile
Max 1 ele/art
No upgrades in armor or exp

with about 30 000 mnai max - thats more than enough to have about 16 units - which seems like the right army size

[IrishHitman]

I think this is wayyyy to strict, we have to allow some creativity to the generals and we don't want every matchup to be the same. I would say:

Min 6 phalanx/legionaires
Max 4 cavalry
Max 4 missile
Max 1 ele/art

with about 30 000 - 40 000 mnai.

We're talking about Macedonia, not AS.
So Eles are out.

I was suggesting an (semi-)accurate unit roster, it doesn't have to be adopted.
That said, I'd use that roster anyway, it's very flexible in terms of what you can do with it.

[Cbvani]

What about post marian troops? Post marian elite light infantry are always game changers in my games, and I use them extensively. They just mow down enemy cavalry like nobody's business.

[soup_alex]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiuWcv-Rp5M by Wurstiworks

Nice; has anyone else seen the (TES: Oblivion) Imperial Legion spoof?

In the meantime, I borrowed Photoshop from a friend and started fiddling with it.
Here's what I came up with so far:

Nice!

Personally, I was thinking of something more along the lines of...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Βελισάριος]

Nice sig you cooked up there, Burebista, though there is a spelling mistake that's quite striking. Hellenes is written as ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ in Greek, the second 'e' is a long one, also named 'eta'. The rest are plain epsilons.

Maion

Drat, drat... triple drat! I knew there was a mistake in there.
I'll get right on it. Thank you, Maion!

And as for the unit roster limitations... think of them more as guidelines than actual rules. That's all I'm saying.
I should have the results from the rule-voting soon. Stay tuned.

[IrishHitman]

Drat, drat... triple drat! I knew there was a mistake in there.
I'll get right on it. Thank you, Maion!

And as for the unit roster limitations... think of them more as guidelines than actual rules. That's all I'm saying.
I should have the results from the rule-voting soon. Stay tuned.

Can you tell the jury to have a look at my idea?
And perhaps get a Romani player to come up with a similar roster for the Romans?

[Βελισάριος]

We all read the thread, so your suggestions are always recorded and properly discussed.
Again, I have to thank you all for your input, you've all contributed so much to this project.

And here's the (corrected) signature as a thanks to all of you:


I'm sorry about the first one, I'd seen ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ somewhere but instead of using the traditional c&p I transcribed it and thus the error. Thanks again, Maion, for the correction: for you for all the continued support, and to all the members of the jury: HunGeneral, Tolg and Tribunus Claudius Marcellus for all their effort and help.

By the end of the week we should have the complete rulebook sorted out and I will post it on the first page of the thread as soon as we're done.

All that's left now is to advertise and gain some popularity... I'm sorry you have to make do with my Photoshop skills (or lack thereof) for now, and I'll appreciate all the help with screenies and anyway you can.
By the way, Alex, that one's hilarious!

[soup_alex]

Ah cheers, Burebista—It's been a rotten sort of day, so that really means something. Glad you could overlook the natty white borders, too.

Damn it, I'm really keen to participate in the tournament, but university activities are more likely a priority, unfortunately. Another factor would be that I'm currently engaged in a 1.1 Qarthadastim campaign (hey, if the Romani versus Hellenes matches go well, is there a chance of having a similar versus Carthage tournament in the future? I know something of the type has been suggested, I would just like to publicly announce my support for such an enterprise and could it please permit Carthage oh please oh please etc.); to say nothing of my poor general ability at making tactical decisions in real-time (or against human adversaries, or using Roman or Hellenic armies).

Anyway, I realise that I haven't contributed to this thread until now, and I just thought I'd chip in to at least say it looks like a bloody terrific idea and I hope it goes well.

[Maion Maroneios]

We all read the thread, so your suggestions are always recorded and properly discussed.
Again, I have to thank you all for your input, you've all contributed so much to this project.

And here's the (corrected) signature as a thanks to all of you:


I'm sorry about the first one, I'd seen ΕΛΛΗΝΕΣ somewhere but instead of using the traditional c&p I transcribed it and thus the error. Thanks again, Maion, for the correction: for you for all the continued support, and to all the members of the jury: HunGeneral, Tolg and Tribunus Claudius Marcellus for all their effort and help.

By the end of the week we should have the complete rulebook sorted out and I will post it on the first page of the thread as soon as we're done.

All that's left now is to advertise and gain some popularity... I'm sorry you have to make do with my Photoshop skills (or lack thereof) for now, and I'll appreciate all the help with screenies and anyway you can.
By the way, Alex, that one's hilarious!

You're most welcome for the help and thanks for the balloon as well I'll add it to my sig ASAP.

EDIT: Have you considered my suggestion of requesting the creation of a sub-forum specifically for this tournament? I believe this would make things easier, so no messing too much with the EB fora.

Maion

[Tolg]

EDIT: Have you considered my suggestion of requesting the creation of a sub-forum specifically for this tournament? I believe this would make things easier, so no messing too much with the EB fora.

Maion

We discussed it and everyone seemed to be favor of it (In fact I don't think that we're gonna have much of an other choice if we're really gonna turn this into a monthly thing), the only problem is that we don't really know how to approach this topic with the forum administration. (Or at least I don't and nobody else has made any suggestions despite me asking for them).
One of the reasons for making the sigs is to increase popularity of the tournament and thus our chances to actually get one if we ask for it.

If you have any other ideas please tell us about them.

[Phalanx300]

Maybe it would be better to have a whole subforum dedicated to EB multiplayer, in which this tournement would also be.



And maybe we could do a all faction tournament after this one? Putting Historical armies from all factions against eachother. (Also there is a EB preview which focusses on Historical formations, and in Historical battles you can also get a idea about it from some battles)

[alexanderthegreater]

Maybe it would be better to have a whole subforum dedicated to EB multiplayer, in which this tournement would also be.



And maybe we could do a all faction tournament after this one? Putting Historical armies from all factions against eachother. (Also there is a EB preview which focusses on Historical formations, and in Historical battles you can also get a idea about it from some battles)

Id love a subforum for EB multiplayer. Could be useful not only for tournaments but also for just finding ppl to match up with.

[HunGeneral]

A subforum would be really good.

Nice signature you made Burebista and thanks for the baloon.

Here have one for it and for starting this whole concept:

[the man with no name]

I might join as the romani or ther Hellenes. The problem is that my fraps only works for 30 secs. and I have never used this recording stuff before so you guys i guess have 3 options for me.

a) teach me how to use the fraps/ other recording stuff
b) excuse me for not having a recording
c) (i would hate this 1) don't let me in

and btw a for burebista for an exellent, spectacular, and amazing idea!!!

Edit: yeah maybe i over did it

[Βελισάριος]

Wow, I'm overwhelmed... thanks for all the balloons!

And, Nameless Dude... all the jury needs from participants is the replay file (you have the option of saving the recording of a battle after you finish it), then we can handle recordings should we choose to make a video, or screenshots for an AAR of sorts.
The Replay file will be universally available and posted on the thread mainpage (or on a separate therad if we get the sub-forum).

And, of course, you are more than welcome to join!
Would it be ok if I asked you to join as a Roman?

[Potocello]

i'm free to play online now, would anyone want to do a test run?

[alexanderthegreater]

Sure. EBv1.2 with fixes and no mods?

[Potocello]

yep. are you still available?

EDIT: I have a server up if anyone wants to join