Is Barack Hussien Obama purposely trying to destroy the US economy?

[Xiahou]

So, speaking of destroying the economy, did anyone take a look at how Obama plans to halve the deficit by the end of his first term? Carbon taxes, higher income taxes, and wishful thinking- otherwise known as unrealistic economic growth.

In its budget, the administration predicted the economy will shrink by 1.2 percent this year but snap back and grow by a solid 3.2 percent in 2010. That would be followed by even stronger increases of 4 percent in 2011, 4.6 percent in 2012 and 4.2 percent in 2013.

By contrast, the consensus of forecasters surveyed by Blue Chip Economic Indicators this month predicted the GDP will fall by a larger 1.9 percent this year and then increase at weaker rates of 2.1 percent in 2010, 2.9 percent in 2011 and 2012 and 2.8 percent in 2013.

The administration needs GDP growth in the 4 percent-plus range for successive years to be able to make its budget math work add up.

Long story short, it's not going to happen.

But, what I really love here is the carbon taxes. What's the idea behind a tax on carbon dioxide? To encourage businesses to produce less of it, yes? Does anyone else see a conflict between trying to tax something to discourage it while at the same time counting on people creating more and more for tax revenue? Further, this is essentially going to be a tax on energy. It's going to make energy more expensive for everyone. The administration claims the increased expenses will be offset by his mid to low income tax credit. If that's the case, please stop bragging about cutting taxes for low income families- the money will likely only be able to partially offset increased energy prices.

Obama has acknowledged it would cause an initial spike in energy costs and is proposing to use $60 billion a year from the auction of carbon trading permits to help finance his “making work pay” tax credit program for lower-income families.

Further, what is this energy tax, along with high income taxes on top earners, and higher capital gains taxes going to do to an economy that is still trying to climb out of recession?

[KukriKhan]

On the "up" side, both the Administration and "... forecasters surveyed by Blue Chip Economic Indicators this month" predict some kinda growth, not downturns, for 2010 onward. If true, we just gotta hang on, and reduce personal risk, through 2009, right?

Doesn't the White House historically over-estimate growth?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I think this whole depression is caused by speculations of stock market. Stock market is exploiting the efforts of government´s to save companies in their individual countries. This just clearly shows that unregulated capitalism is not working. If investment trends can create world wide depressions, there is something clearly wrong with the system. First i cant understand how stock exchance, which was greated first to support funding companies, has turned in a leech that pumps money in certain target in order to raise its value and when a certain marginal has been reached, the investors sell and create profit out of nothing. That is clearly exploitation of system, which only harms economy. In a global economy, companies are forced to to downgrade the benefits of workers, because there is always another place, where products can be made cheaper and if a company fails to do that, investors withdraw their funding. Basically this kind of system is only an automatic to create mysery.

I think that both US and EU should stamp a healthy tax to any stock exchange, so the leeching and speculating would end and investors would go back on investing money to enterprises in order to gain shares from their profits and not jsut to speculate with margins when to buy and when to sell. Both communism and capitalism fail like any extremes. Only reasonable option is mixed economy.

While, in the short term, speculation can end up distorting stock values, over longer periods of time the process of speculation (as well as the futures markets) serve to stabilize market changes. They are investing in what they think will improve, and stopping that investment when the believe it has peaked.

Example: as oil soared over 140 USD, futures investors and stock investors began to shift funding AWAY from companies that were making profits based on that price. They predicted, accurately, that consumers would shift behavior and moderate their consumption of this product at that price. By shifting their investing, these investors actually cushioned some of the inevitable dropoff by shifting funding to companies which were bound to pick up business from a market looking for less costly energy.

While I think that markets need regulation -- actually not so much in the way of new regulations but more support to actually enforce the ones we have -- I cannot see how taxing market investment does anything but siphon money from consumers. Capital Gains taxes and the like simply let the government "take its cut," while corporate taxes are passed along to consumers as an expense.

The real role of government shouldn't be to manage the market, but to work (and a lot better than it has) to minimize and punish fraud while providing a maximum of transparency. Caveat emptor will always be relevant, but their is nothing wrong with the government making the buyer as informed as possible.

[Devastatin Dave]

So, speaking of destroying the economy, did anyone take a look at how Obama plans to halve the deficit by the end of his first term? Carbon taxes, higher income taxes, and wishful thinking- otherwise known as unrealistic economic growth.
Long story short, it's not going to happen.

But, what I really love here is the carbon taxes. What's the idea behind a tax on carbon dioxide? To encourage businesses to produce less of it, yes? Does anyone else see a conflict between trying to tax something to discourage it while at the same time counting on people creating more and more for tax revenue? Further, this is essentially going to be a tax on energy. It's going to make energy more expensive for everyone. The administration claims the increased expenses will be offset by his mid to low income tax credit. If that's the case, please stop bragging about cutting taxes for low income families- the money will likely only be able to partially offset increased energy prices.

Further, what is this energy tax, along with high income taxes on top earners, and higher capital gains taxes going to do to an economy that is still trying to climb out of recession?

He said he was going to do this before the election, but no one listened of course because they were to high on "hope and change"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9x7t8dGwa0

If you can get through all the stuttering and uhs (he forgot his teleprompter that day) he even says he's going to bankrupt anyone who attempts to build a coal using factory. God this "brilliant" orator, sure is a real ******* moron when it comes to building an economy...

[Kagemusha]

While, in the short term, speculation can end up distorting stock values, over longer periods of time the process of speculation (as well as the futures markets) serve to stabilize market changes. They are investing in what they think will improve, and stopping that investment when the believe it has peaked.

Example: as oil soared over 140 USD, futures investors and stock investors began to shift funding AWAY from companies that were making profits based on that price. They predicted, accurately, that consumers would shift behavior and moderate their consumption of this product at that price. By shifting their investing, these investors actually cushioned some of the inevitable dropoff by shifting funding to companies which were bound to pick up business from a market looking for less costly energy.

While I think that markets need regulation -- actually not so much in the way of new regulations but more support to actually enforce the ones we have -- I cannot see how taxing market investment does anything but siphon money from consumers. Capital Gains taxes and the like simply let the government "take its cut," while corporate taxes are passed along to consumers as an expense.

The real role of government shouldn't be to manage the market, but to work (and a lot better than it has) to minimize and punish fraud while providing a maximum of transparency. Caveat emptor will always be relevant, but their is nothing wrong with the government making the buyer as informed as possible.

Well if we look at what the stock market did during last autumn, before the last major leap downwards. I am not quite sure from where it started, probably from Wall Street. The trend was that overall it would be not profitable to invest in stocks and the capital should be moved to gold or other raw materials, which will keep their value well. The drumming in all medias, sucked in also the small investors, thus pushing the market on downward spiral.

Now ofcourse investors that had played with loaned money went panic as they could not stand the loss of value of their stocks and started selling like grazy, which further dropped the value of the stocks, while companies did not get investments, which has resulted in bankrupcies and severe cuts on production. Now govermnents are spending tax payers money to loan money to companies.

I wonder how good money was made by those who actually had capita and how much money they will make in the future, when they will start buying dirt cheap stocks, once the rock bottom has been hit, thus enabling the economy to start growing again. The only difference being that again after this economical depression, majority of funds are again in fewer hands. Thus works the wonderful global capitalism.

[Subotan]

If you can get through all the stuttering and uhs (he forgot his teleprompter that day).

Why do people like you complain when he uses a teleprompter, and then complain when he doesn't?

He even says he's going to bankrupt anyone who attempts to build a coal using factory.

Excellent; coal is a disaster, and needs to be wiped out. It's damaging to the environment, causes diseases, and thus millions of lost work hours due to lung conditions and is going to run out and some point. Why shouldn't he use all the solar, wind and hydro power he can get his hands on? It's just sitting there unused, whilst we burrow miles into the earth to dig up a dirty, inefficient fuel that needs to be transported miles before it can be used. It doesn't make sense.

God this "brilliant" orator, sure is a real ****ing moron when it comes to building an economy...

Jobs in wind, solar and hydro are jobs just as much as a job in a factory or a coal miner is.

[Xiahou]

On the "up" side, both the Administration and "... forecasters surveyed by Blue Chip Economic Indicators this month" predict some kinda growth, not downturns, for 2010 onward. If true, we just gotta hang on, and reduce personal risk, through 2009, right?

Yeah, the recovery almost always follows quickly after.... unless we do something to screw it up.

[Devastatin Dave]

Why do people like you complain when he uses a teleprompter, and then complain when he doesn't?



Excellent; coal is a disaster, and needs to be wiped out. It's damaging to the environment, causes diseases, and thus millions of lost work hours due to lung conditions and is going to run out and some point. Why shouldn't he use all the solar, wind and hydro power he can get his hands on? It's just sitting there unused, whilst we burrow miles into the earth to dig up a dirty, inefficient fuel that needs to be transported miles before it can be used. It doesn't make sense.


Jobs in wind, solar and hydro are jobs just as much as a job in a factory or a coal miner is.

I take it you own a copy of Al Gore's movie.

[Marshal Murat]

Obama told the 10th annual "State of the Black Union" gathering

So they want integrated schools but their own "Black Union" address? Well, isn't that just dandy. Where's the "Asian Union"?

[Devastatin Dave]

So they want integrated schools but their own "Black Union" address? Well, isn't that just dandy. Where's the "Asian Union"?

Kinda funny ain't it... We have the Black Caucus in the Congress, among other black groups, but its not racist!!!

I thought Barak "the Black Jesus" Obama was going to get this country past its race issue? Sounds like he's just fanning the flames for political gain... Back to topic...

Green is the new Red, and most commies, quite ingeniuosly I mightadd, have joined the Green movement. If they can start using the enviroment as a vehicle to push a socialist agenda (redistribution of wealth through carbon tax), like Mr Hussien is doing, then the sky is the limit. This may be peachy to most of you, but not to me.

[Major Robert Dump]

I think bringing up the black state of the union during a discussion on coal is racist and I want you both banned.

When the carbon tax comes does that mean carbon copy documents will be more expensive? Will they tax archeologists and paleothenalimetholigists as well when they carbon date the bones of the ancient skeleton people? What about peoples whose last name is Carbone (hey i think i just solved the immigration debate!!)

[Subotan]

I take it you own a copy of Al Gore's movie.

Far from it. Although I appreciate his inventing of the internet, he's too far to the right for me :]

Green is the new Red, and most commies, quite ingeniuosly I mightadd, have joined the Green movement. If they can start using the enviroment as a vehicle to push a socialist agenda (redistribution of wealth through carbon tax), like Mr Hussien is doing, then the sky is the limit. This may be peachy to most of you, but not to me.

Surely, the sky is what we should be worrying about, since we are pumping millions of tons of CO2 into that very sky? Besides, so what if his middle name is Hussein?

[Xiahou]

I think bringing up the black state of the union during a discussion on coal is racist and I want you both banned.

When the carbon tax comes does that mean carbon copy documents will be more expensive? Will they tax archeologists and paleothenalimetholigists as well when they carbon date the bones of the ancient skeleton people? What about peoples whose last name is Carbone (hey i think i just solved the immigration debate!!)

Hey, don't blame us for that. It was the eco-marketers who decided that "carbon credits" has a better ring to it than "carbon dioxide credits".

Surely, the sky is what we should be worrying about, since we are pumping millions of tons of CO2 into that very sky?

Let's save the debate on global warming for another thread.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

So they want integrated schools but their own "Black Union" address? Well, isn't that just dandy. Where's the "Asian Union"?

Lime? LIME? Oh, my poor eyes. Need the shades.





Yes. Very good.

[Major Robert Dump]

So they want integrated schools but their own "Black Union" address? Well, isn't that just dandy. Where's the "Asian Union"?

Using Lime colored text in a sentence mentioning the Asian Union is racist and it made me have a seizure which is discriminatory towards seizure people. I want you banned, too

[KukriKhan]

Let's all resolve to at least spell the guy's name correctly, whether we approve of the moniker or not.

...e-i-n, not 'ien'.

[Gregoshi]

Let's all resolve to at least spell the guy's name correctly, whether we approve of the moniker or not.

...e-i-n, not 'ien'.

Mail men! Always worried about letters...

[Papewaio]

IMDHO, the problems with the American economy pre-existed BHO's rise to political power at the senate level, let alone that of President.

As for the market, government should regulate, where regulation encourages transparency and accountability. Also what I believe is that if a corporation is to be considered a person, it should also be held up to the role of what a good citizen would be expected.

As for carbon tax, well it could be used as a tariff quite easily. Just make sure all imports are carbon neutral and the price of cheap foreign imports would go up massively.

[Devastatin Dave]

As for carbon tax, well it could be used as a tariff quite easily. Just make sure all imports are carbon neutral and the price of cheap foreign imports would go up massively.

I wonder to who those companies will pass the cost to? I wonder if Barak has even considered that his need to prop up the fraud of the global warming church with new taxes will hurt everyone in the long run... Again this brings me back to the original point; Barak Hussien Obama is purposely trying to destroy the economy to bring forth a socialist world government.

[Lemur]

And DevDave still can't spell "Hussein" properly. This proves that our education system is broken.

[Devastatin Dave]

And DevDave still can't spell "Hussein" properly. This proves that our education system is broken.

Sorry, I'm not good with Arab names. I guess I need to move toy the Netherlands...

[Subotan]

Husein, Hussein, Hossein, Hossain, Hussain, Husain, Hosein, Husayn (Arabic: حسین Ḥussayn), is an Arabic name which is the diminutive of Hassan, meaning "good" or "handsome" or "beautiful". It is commonly given as a male given name among Muslims, in honor of Husayn ibn Ali (626-680 AD), although the name is so common it is also given to persons of secular backgrounds.

Win.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Barack Hussein Obama is purposely trying to destroy the economy to bring forth a socialist world government.

Man, that sounds spooky...


(pun intended )

[Devastatin Dave]

Man, that sounds spooky...


(pun intended )

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5822265.ece

[Adrian II]

Man, that sounds spooky...


(pun intended )

Why are you ashamed? You're just calling a spade a spade, aren't you?

Oops...

[Ironside]

I wonder to who those companies will pass the cost to? I wonder if Barak has even considered that his need to prop up the fraud of the global warming church with new taxes will hurt everyone in the long run... Again this brings me back to the original point; Barak Hussien Obama is purposely trying to destroy the economy to bring forth a socialist world government.

Indulge us with your overwhelming wisdom, how exactly is Obama planning to maintain power after having destroyed the US economy by 2013? I mean bringing the paradigm shift and doing the radical reforms needed to bring forth a socialist world government, will need to wait until after the next election.

Anyway, my estimate is that Obama needs to become a great reformer of many of the current social programs if he's going to be able to make his election promises, while still being able to get the budget in order.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Louis, Adrian:

"spook" and "spade" are usually considered racist terms by US blacks. I note that you both are engaged uPUN another endeavor, but have care please.

[Strike For The South]

Louis, Adrian:

"spook" and "spade" are usually considered racist terms by US blacks. I note that you both are engaged uPUN another endeavor, but have care please.

I say we ban them both.

[Subotan]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle5822265.ece

Because protectionism is fun -_-

[Spino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
Louis, Adrian:

"spook" and "spade" are usually considered racist terms by US blacks. I note that you both are engaged uPUN another endeavor, but have care please.

I say we ban them both.

Why do you hate America's favorite spook & garden implement?

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