First Impressions

[Sol Invictus]

I have only finished Ch. 1 of RtI; lol; but my initial impressions are great because after hearing of the problems some people are having with Steam, I am just happy to have had a seemless installation and was able to start without a crash. Game looks nice and runs well on High with my mediocre system. I am dieing to jump into the GC, but I am going to complete RtI as soon as I can first. I hope my good fortune continues this eve.

[ArtillerySmoke]

I have only finished Ch. 1 of RtI; lol; but my initial impressions are great because after hearing of the problems some people are having with Steam, I am just happy to have had a seemless installation and was able to start without a crash. Game looks nice and runs well on High with my mediocre system. I am dieing to jump into the GC, but I am going to complete RtI as soon as I can first. I hope my good fortune continues this eve.

Don't see any reason that they won't.

I love how RtI is in the game. It's a great introduction to things without getting too deeply involved in a GC.

I'll be installing later on and ...I can barely contain my excitement lol. I saw some Napoleonic battles portrayed on the Military Channel the other night and was just like "I cannot believe I'll be commanding battles like this soon".

[Nelson]

True, and its understandable on the land battles. You can only control (and the computer render) so many men at once in a battle. So I can understand understating numbers of men.

And for naval battles, the forces are limited to 20 ships a side. Fair enough. But to pretend that in 1700 that the major nations had no ships of the line?! Ridiculous. How about Britain and France starting off with a couple of fleets of ten each? Would that be so wrong?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this. From Shogun onward CA has been determined to make us tech up to get what was already available at the campaign start date. In Rome, by the time you can build triarii you are almost to Marius despite the obvious historical existence of the entire manipular legion when the game begins. Ah well. This may be how they choose to balance the factions.

[Sir Beane]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with all of this. From Shogun onward CA has been determined to make us tech up to get what was already available at the campaign start date. In Rome, by the time you can build triarii you are almost to Marius despite the obvious historical existence of the entire manipular legion when the game begins. Ah well. This may be how they choose to balance the factions.

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters.

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. And then of course there's the fact you need a top-level shipyard as well.

It's irritating, but I can understand where CA is coming from. Teching up gives you a sense of progress and accomplishment which would be missing if all the tech was available from the start.

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues .

[Nelson]

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues .

Bingo, Sir Beane!

I have installed the game along with the special forces and the USS Constitution (from Best Buy) but have only played some of the American tutorial thus far. I like it.

[Eusebius86]

Here's my initial impression as I just picked up the game from gamestop today. I made sure to restart my pc after installing ETW, so no CTD's or errors. No steam problems whatsoever. Also, load times about 1/2 of the demo's.
- Lots of people on the twcenter forums complaining about the graphics being too intensive compared to the demo, I haven't had any problems on high settings, 1440x900 res, grass low (9800 gt, 2.5 Ghz dual core, 2GB ram XP).
- Graphics are great on campaign and battles, almost flawless.
- Have had 1 CTD after 3 hours of play, not too bad
- am po'd that I can't delete save games, as I'm constantly saving games because I'm concerned about CTD's...
- RtI campaign is long a REALLY LONG tutorial, kind of boring. And I'm a huge American Revolution fan. I wish I could change the settings to VH for RtI, but you can't...
- Battle AI is great in open field, I almost lost General Washington to an ambush which was almost flawlessly executed by the AI.
- Siege AI is possibly WORSE than RTW and M2TW. Pathfinding sucks, AI sits around all day doing nothing, etc. I hate it and autoresolve every single siege now...
- I may quit the RtI campaign and jump in to the Grand Campaign as Prussia or Great Britain soon. It's not quite as immersive as I hoped it would be. Maybe it's just because there are so many sieges, and I'm absolutely hating the siege AI...

[Murmandamus]

Guess you never played RTW or M2TW. The battle AI was attrocious.

I've played them all and I've never seen it do anywhere near that badly, which is what led me to post about it :)

I cranked the battle AI to full strength and it did a much better job at fort defense. Different fight, but I lost about 500 out of 1500 this time, though that was partly my own fault. The enemy had cannon inside the fort and they blew up a wall section that I had a unit on before I noticed what they were doing. Trying to assault 3 sides of the fort at the same time gets a bit hectic. Lost 100 men when the wall went down. Cool seeing the AI blow up its own fort to defend it. I'd do the same :)

My second mistake was taking out 2 sections of one of the walls. With the small fort, when you take down a section of wall it also takes out the stairs that lead up to the wall. The enemy had about 4 units up on the front wall. I took out both wall sections either side of the gate which left 3 1/2 units stuck up there in the middle section.

That was fine in one respect because it meant they couldn't get down to defend when I charged in, but it also meant that they had a good position to shoot down on me, and I couldn't get up to them unless I wanted heavy losses. I ended up winning via holding the center square for the countdown with 300 or so of the enemy still stuck up on the wall. First time I've ever had to win a siege battle via countdown in a TW game. I usually do my best to kill all the enemy instead :)

I also very nearly ran out of money which looks like it will cause problems in this game. Previously you'd just go negative balance, but I got a warning when I hit the end turn button saying that if I continued I'd run out of money, that a bunch of units would disband due to not getting paid and that citizens could riot. Luckily I had just started the above siege which was to take a French province, so I was able to just do the attack and take the province which increased my income enough to cover my army upkeep costs :)

[ArtillerySmoke]

I've played them all and I've never seen it do anywhere near that badly, which is what led me to post about it :)

I cranked the battle AI to full strength and it did a much better job at fort defense. Different fight, but I lost about 500 out of 1500 this time, though that was partly my own fault. The enemy had cannon inside the fort and they blew up a wall section that I had a unit on before I noticed what they were doing. Trying to assault 3 sides of the fort at the same time gets a bit hectic. Lost 100 men when the wall went down. Cool seeing the AI blow up its own fort to defend it. I'd do the same :)

My second mistake was taking out 2 sections of one of the walls. With the small fort, when you take down a section of wall it also takes out the stairs that lead up to the wall. The enemy had about 4 units up on the front wall. I took out both wall sections either side of the gate which left 3 1/2 units stuck up there in the middle section.

That was fine in one respect because it meant they couldn't get down to defend when I charged in, but it also meant that they had a good position to shoot down on me, and I couldn't get up to them unless I wanted heavy losses. I ended up winning via holding the center square for the countdown with 300 or so of the enemy still stuck up on the wall. First time I've ever had to win a siege battle via countdown in a TW game. I usually do my best to kill all the enemy instead :)

I also very nearly ran out of money which looks like it will cause problems in this game. Previously you'd just go negative balance, but I got a warning when I hit the end turn button saying that if I continued I'd run out of money, that a bunch of units would disband due to not getting paid and that citizens could riot. Luckily I had just started the above siege which was to take a French province, so I was able to just do the attack and take the province which increased my income enough to cover my army upkeep costs :)

Sounds good.

The zero negative balance is also phenomenal imo. I always thought the negative balance was a joke. You have to feed your soldiers or your campaign is over.

[IlDuce]

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters.

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. And then of course there's the fact you need a top-level shipyard as well.

It's irritating, but I can understand where CA is coming from. Teching up gives you a sense of progress and accomplishment which would be missing if all the tech was available from the start.

It's one of those tricky realism vs. gameplay issues .

Defo agree with you on the sense of achievement from teching up. The first battle with Fire by rank was awesome. The cherokee charging at me like usual, probably cocky that they'd do some good damage. Then they rout before they even clash with me. Nothing like slaughtering the natives with superior firepower.

[ArtillerySmoke]

Defo agree with you on the sense of achievement from teching up. The first battle with Fire by rank was awesome. The cherokee charging at me like usual, probably cocky that they'd do some good damage. Then they rout before they even clash with me. Nothing like slaughtering the natives with superior firepower.

Do the natives wage guerilla warfare as they should? As in, unconventional?

[Sir Beane]

Do the natives wage guerilla warfare as they should? As in, unconventional?

They do tend to raid surrounding unprotected towns and run if they don't think they can take you in a straight fight. I was sitting in a fort waiting for them but they torched all my plantations and the legged it back into friendly territory. (The they I am talking about is the Cherokee.)

[A Very Super Market]

Natives really die quite a lot in open field battles. Unfortunately, they hide around in the forests.

[ArtillerySmoke]

They do tend to raid surrounding unprotected towns and run if they don't think they can take you in a straight fight. I was sitting in a fort waiting for them but they torched all my plantations and the legged it back into friendly territory. (The they I am talking about is the Cherokee.)

Perfect.

Straight out of the Art of War

edit: I'm a nostalgic guy, but anyone who remembers the AI doing that in previous total war titles (including MTW) is looking through rose tinted glasses. That's a great sign that the natives would assess their strength accurately and attack where the least defense is.

[IlDuce]

Yeah, they do tend to raid your settlements and are at a big disadvantage in open battles which is why I try to draw them out by raiding their farms and stuff. Really cool that this completely different style of warfare is being used in a TW game. It can actually be enjoyable to not go straight for a battle.

[IsItStillThere]

The factions don't really need balancing too much, as they all have near indentical unit rosters.

Giving facions first rates at the start would invalidate the naval tech tree, because a lot of it needs to be researched to build them. .

Then why not start the naval tech tree where it actually was in 1700 and go from there? Let us, the players, change history instead of doing it for us.

Don't get me wrong, the game is great and will still be a lot of fun...but it would have been even better to have a historically realistic starting point.

[A Very Super Market]

Well.... basically all the units were researched in 1700.

[Quickening]

Ive just uploaded my first impressions video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQcjBkpHSlE

[Sir Beane]

Then why not start the naval tech tree where it actually was in 1700 and go from there? Let us, the players, change history instead of doing it for us.

Don't get me wrong, the game is great and will still be a lot of fun...but it would have been even better to have a historically realistic starting point.

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.

[Phog_of_War]

Personally I have really enjoyed Empire so far. I am just about done with the RtI and will jump into the GC soon, probably as Spain.

A few nice features:

- The reinforcement system

- Besides raiding farms and plantations you can interdict trade on land and sea

- Your Gentlemen can enter enemy schools and steal tech

- I like the cover system, however the only drawback is that, as mentioned in other posts, the AI just doesen't use it effectivly and cant seem to figure out how to overcome enemy units behind walls, fences and entrenchments.

- The Bunker Hill battle was well done and fairly accurate except that there should have been Redcoat reinforcements from the city of Boston.

[Begin History Lesson] There were about 400 or so volunteers that were watching the battle from Boston who rowed over to the fight after seeing the British attacks repulsed twice. Without those men the outcome of Bunker Hill might have been very different. General Howe probably would have been recalled earlier in the war for such foolhardy tactics as the frontal assault on a well fortified position.

As it was he ended up wasting valuable time and English resources chasing Washington around New England, for nearly a year I believe. When what he should have done is, quickly follow up his (Phyrric) victory and ended the Revolution. Instead he was very conservitive and didnt have that killer instinct. And that is what allowed the Revolution to grow and quickly gain momentum in the Colonies. [End History Lesson]

- I enjoy the dueling cut scenes. Any TW cutscene really.



So besides a few CTD, which is just a fact of life when you have Vista. I have found Empire to be probably the best of the bunch so far. MP should be intresting but haven't even tested the waters there since, ummm, Med 1, I guess. and I'm looking forward to starting the GC soon.

[IsItStillThere]

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.

I can certainly see your point. Its like they decided to have a big tech tree first, then made adjustments to accommodate it. Instead, they could have decided what kind of game they wanted first, then determine the tech tree. I personally would have gone with the latter option. Is there some law that says a big, complicated tech tree is a necessity in a game such as this? Especially since the naval techs are only one branch.


Speaking of the tech tree, is there somewhere that it is posted? Its not in the manual and only the building tree came with the game. Thanks!

[A Very Super Market]

The tech tree is laid out in full in-game.

[Lord of the Isles]

Very First Impression - in shop

CELLOPHANE WRAPPED BOX! OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY... <- all games create this feeling in me

Next Impressions - on installing

I had a activation code problem for a couple of hours, drove me crazy but partly my fault.

First Worthwhile Impressions - on playing first day

So many little hassles, and a few bigger ones. A small selection:

-- manual too small to be useful
-- deleting save games - not possible in-game, took me an hour to track down where CA saves them
-- cannons need micromanaged - friendly fire - overriding targets I choose - aarrgghh
-- CTD around turn 19, reload repeats CTD, load from earlier save, another CTD at turn 34, restart game
-- tracing a new location for a group move while at x4 speed regularly doesn't work - group sits where they are
-- have mapped Pause key to 'toggle pause' along with the default 'p', but it doesn't work as well, needs 2 or 3 hits sometimes
-- diplomacy offers cannot be minimized so I can go check on info regarding offer
-- stretching out a new formation should use unit frontages proportional to remaining men in unit - this stopped working from RTW onwards
-- no autosaves before current turn?
-- troop movement too fast in battles - only played mods of M2TW for so long I had forgotten the soldiers on speed effect
-- annoyed at trade zone problem till I found evidence in forums it was a bug they are working on
-- had to downgrade graphics driver for nvidia 8800 GTS since recent one may interact badly with ETW

I don't remember so many little niggles in a TW game before, nor so many posts in the fan forums with problems on the first day of a release (though Steam has undoubtedly increased this number). And I could go on. But I won't because of:

Final First Impressions - after leaving computer on first day

AARRGGHHH! MY NECK AND BACK REALLY HURT!

I couldn't believe how sore I suddenly was. Because I'd just spent hours without moving perched awkwardly on the edge of my chair, hands clutching the mouse and keyboard trying to get the most out of my country and its troops, wondering what was going to happen next. So for all the moans and issues I have with the game, that's one day of damn enjoyable gaming (excepting the odd few wasted hours) that I didn't want to end.

So the game clearly has potential. Too early to say whether it will live up to that potential but we'll see. Now you must excuse me: I have to go land some troops and find Mughal Empire territories to conquer. This time, having restarted my game as Britain, I've got there before the Maratha Confederacy has taken over most of the continent.

[quadalpha]

-- tracing a new location for a group move while at x4 speed regularly doesn't work - group sits where they are
-- have mapped Pause key to 'toggle pause' along with the default 'p', but it doesn't work as well, needs 2 or 3 hits sometimes

Those seem to be related problems that happen when you don't have a high frame rate; they are probably due to the game's not having a keypress buffer.

[andrewt]

I can certainly see your point. Its like they decided to have a big tech tree first, then made adjustments to accommodate it. Instead, they could have decided what kind of game they wanted first, then determine the tech tree. I personally would have gone with the latter option. Is there some law that says a big, complicated tech tree is a necessity in a game such as this? Especially since the naval techs are only one branch.


Speaking of the tech tree, is there somewhere that it is posted? Its not in the manual and only the building tree came with the game. Thanks!

Pretty much every strategy game needs a pretty big tech tree and have sides be underdeveloped at the start. Otherwise, the player has nothing to spend gold on except more units and there's no trade-offs involved. The trade-off between units, technology or economy or any combination is central to any strategy game.

If the game was completely realistic, armies would be the same size and have almost the same capability in 1700 as in 1800, which would make it boring.

[IsItStillThere]

Pretty much every strategy game needs a pretty big tech tree and have sides be underdeveloped at the start.

Did shogun total war suffer from not having a tech tree? MTW? M2TW? Not in my opinion.

Total War games aren't meant to be "civilization". To me, they should be: Here is a historically realistic sandbox. Go change history.

[Melvish]

Yeah, I took a look at all the unit rosters using the play battle mode. It looked at first like France has a lot of unique units, then I compared their roster to Britain's, and it seems like CA just gave them their French names in the English version to sound "different".

Yes it is a vaillaint effort from CA but some of those french name made me laugh. It is not Coureur de bois" but "Coureur DES bois". Also "Bataillion de petit-vieux"? I was like lol!! a Regiment a cripple old men!

It is nice that the unit properly use their native language properly this time, i like my game with Prussia where the orders are actually bark out in German, quite immersive. It really add up to the game play.

[Meneldil]

The thing is you'd research about four technologies the entire game. To get the naval tech tree to any sort of size they had to change things a little.

Well, actually, I think the 18th century was one of technological and ideological improvement. I'm pretty sure CA could have come up with interesting tech trees without going back one century earlier.

As someone said, the fact you could get Triarii only a few years before reaching Marius reforms in RTW was stupid as hell, and so is the fact huge Empire such as Britain and France start out with a few outdated ships and ridiculously small armies.

[Sheogorath]

I'm a bit dissapointed that uniforms dont update as the game goes on. I guess that's a lot of modeling work, but still, they managed it with MTW2.

I, for one, thing tricorns look silly. Especially with everybody wearing them. What happened to the variety of silly hats (And uniforms!) we saw in the early screenshots?

I demand silly hats!

[ArtillerySmoke]

I'm a bit dissapointed that uniforms dont update as the game goes on. I guess that's a lot of modeling work, but still, they managed it with MTW2.

I, for one, thing tricorns look silly. Especially with everybody wearing them. What happened to the variety of silly hats (And uniforms!) we saw in the early screenshots?

I demand silly hats!

That was armor that improved over time visually in M2TW. As you upgraded it, it would be reflected visually.

It wouldn't apply here. I doubt equipment and appearance of troops changed too much from 1701-1800.

[Swoosh So]

Thanks for the video quickening :)

Ill probably buy the game based on your video of the campaign looks huge and very detailed. Will you be doing a full review?