Awful, awful naval battles......

[AussieGiant]

@ Dogfish,

Please don't quote Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh as something of a counter point to my comment.

I said you don't accomplish too much, not nothing...but the consequences of their behaviour are clear for most people to see. Because, even if you do agree with a point they raise, their delivery and behaviour can be so ridiculous that it put most neutrals off to a greater degree.

As to the main point:

I certain don't think we should swing to the opposite position that you quote as an example.

"This game is awesome and I love CA, but I beg them to please bless us with a working game. Thank you o mighty CA pleasedonthurtme." That was certainly not my point.

You're quite right, some things are big face slappers, but as long as CA is acknowledging things and is moving in the direction of addressing the issues, then constructive conversation to highlight and provide meaningful assistance seems like a better contribution.

[Dogfish]

@ Dogfish,

Please don't quote Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh as something of a counter point to my comment.

I said you don't accomplish too much, not nothing...but the consequences of their behaviour are clear for most people to see. Because, even if you do agree with a point they raise, their delivery and behaviour can be so ridiculous that it put most neutrals off to a greater degree.

Sorry about that... I just thought they were two really good examples of people whom are considered successful by doing nothing but panning other people and cultures. But that's really irrelevant to this thread or ETW.

As to the main point:

I certain don't think we should swing to the opposite position that you quote as an example.

"This game is awesome and I love CA, but I beg them to please bless us with a working game. Thank you o mighty CA pleasedonthurtme." That was certainly not my point.

You're quite right, some things are big face slappers, but as long as CA is acknowledging things and is moving in the direction of addressing the issues, then constructive conversation to highlight and provide meaningful assistance seems like a better contribution.

I agree, it is more constructive. To some degree, however, threads like this aren't as much about helping CA move in the right direction (they probably will not read or see this thread) as much as a little bit of venting about a game that many feel is unfinished (with other people having similar frustrations), which is at least a small part of what communities like this are about. Sharing joys, sharing pain, sharing stories.

Anyway, hopefully CA will be able to get the naval battles up to ours, and probably their own, expectations. They are but a little zygote at the moment, and need much development before they are ready for battle.

[Malkut]

I just thought they were two really good examples

I'd consider them more warnings than examples.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Do you find that your Admiral picks up negative traits for withdrawing, even from an unfavorable matchup?

[AussieGiant]

Dogfish,

I agree with you mate. "Stick" (Australian for constructive criticism) needs to be given to CA but at the moment it's tough to read the general level of negativity sometimes.

On occasion I just try to ask for a little more balance as I'm sure CA people do read through these threads. When they do, a good solid level of information and a critique that's well thought out and gets to the meat of the issue will solve "our" issues much better.

Apologies if we got a little side tracked

I'm just hoping they get through their stability patches as fast as possible so they can get their resources focused on the naval topic as a whole. It's the first time they've done it so it's clearly an area they need to focus on.

I just hope we are "careful for what we wish for." Because if they get a patch out that solves most of the naval theatre issues at one time we could all have our hands pretty full.

I can see the following list in my mind from reading all the posts to date:

In-theatre troop distribution
Intra-theatre troop distribution
Trade route issues
Trade region issues
Invasion possibilities
Battle tactics and ship balancing

If all that was handled in one patch we might all wonder if a nuke just hit us.

[Dogfish]

I can see the following list in my mind from reading all the posts to date:

In-theatre troop distribution
Intra-theatre troop distribution
Trade route issues
Trade region issues
Invasion possibilities
Battle tactics and ship balancing

If all that was handled in one patch we might all wonder if a nuke just hit us.

If all that was in one patch I would probably hurt myself with as many celebratory backflips as I would be attempting. Mind you, I've never done a backflip. But that's just how excited I would be.

Good list summary of the major naval issues.

[Maleficus]

Dogfish,
On occasion I just try to ask for a little more balance as I'm sure CA people do read through these threads. When they do, a good solid level of information and a critique that's well thought out and gets to the meat of the issue will solve "our" issues much better.

Well, IMO all they need to do with regards to naval issues is:


1. Adjust certain ships to make them more historically accurate in terms of firepower, speed and maneuverability. (trade ships, mostly).

2. Tweak the combat system to make it actually possible to hit the enemy when you shoot at them.

3. Tweak the ships' crews' abilities so that crews of trade ships skills in melee are inferior to naval personell.

There's also some more cosmetic changes that I would like to see, but as long as they make the three I've listed, I'll be a happy bunny.

[Dogfish]

I hope either by mod or patch that we get the ability to have more realistic naval battles. That's really my biggest hope. No sailing upwind, no anchoring in open ocean, no stopping and turning on a dime. No turning into the wind.

Maybe make the "rotate" functionality control rudder instead, and it sticks at the angle that you leave it at.

Allow the user to set the speed of grouped formations with the sail +/- buttons like you can with individual ships.

Sid Meier's Pirates feels more realistic than ETW at times, especially with the effect of wind.

[Dayve]

2. Tweak the combat system to make it actually possible to hit the enemy when you shoot at them.

Or at least take the ship-homing cannon balls away from the AI. I find when you sail right next to a ship and fire a fully loaded broadside the accuracy is quite satisfactory, but the damage is extremely lacking, especially when galleys only lose 1 crew member and 2% hull damage from a full point blank 4th rate broadside rake.

The AI doesn't have that problem however, when they give you a full broadside volley from point blank range they savage your ship, even if their ship is inferior in quality to yours, or of the same quality.

Combat from further away, the AI ships definitely have accuracy boosts against you, and more of their cannon balls will hit your ships than your cannon balls theirs, even if your ships have a higher accuracy stat than theirs.

So, the two most important things there i'd say are to balance the ship stats and take away the accuracy and damage bonuses the AI seem to have.

[Graphic]

I can see the following list in my mind from reading all the posts to date:

In-theatre troop distribution
Intra-theatre troop distribution
Trade route issues
Trade region issues
Invasion possibilities
Battle tactics and ship balancing

Also boarding/capturing ships is very iffy. 9 times out of 10 they just surrender, but in order to be in the position to board, they already need to be heavily damaged and probably on the brink of surrendering anyway. And if they surrender during the melee, you don't actually capture the ship.

IMO if you board a ship and they give up, you should get the capture. It seems like you have to kill every last man aboard the enemy ship without them surrendering, and that's a little nutty.

[Fisherking]

Also boarding/capturing ships is very iffy. 9 times out of 10 they just surrender, but in order to be in the position to board, they already need to be heavily damaged and probably on the brink of surrendering anyway. And if they surrender during the melee, you don't actually capture the ship.

IMO if you board a ship and they give up, you should get the capture. It seems like you have to kill every last man aboard the enemy ship without them surrendering, and that's a little nutty.

I agree with that.

If the boarding action caused the morale to drop it should be credited as a capture.

However, you as the winner should receive all ships that strike anyway, and that more than credit for the capture is what is important.

If that area in naval combat is flawed, then that is what needs set to rights.

There are ships which seem very over powered, that much is clear. CA has always made some units almost super human. It could be good if it is addressed. Particularly the galleys being unhitable. It does not have to be easy, just possible, especially with their extreme lethality. With the other ships it may be that they have very strong hulls.

The other issue I see is with the formations not working exactly as they should.

When ships are pulled out of line, by any occurrence, the ships should at least try to regain their stations and spacing in line.

When formations are changed the ships should flow smoothly, or as much as possible, into the new formation and not turn in unpredictable directions.

There should also be a turn about function for the ships to, as a formation change course 180°.

As it stands now, ships in the line ahead formation fair best as long as they don’t become entangled with the enemy or other ships. At that point everything goes to pot. Faster ships in the line do not reposition them selves but leave gaps which could be closed up. Ships nose to tale don’t spread out either and if a ship leaves the line it just leaves a hole which can only be fixed by manually repositioning each ship, and some times when you regroup the line you still get an unpredictable result.

None of this is major when considered point for point, but when combined it can render the naval combat too frustrating for some people.

It need improved upon to make it an enjoyable experience for all. Not easy, just enjoyable.