The Ultimate French Failure!

**AussieGiant** · 03-13-2009, 15:57

As soon as a mod gets around to this thread it's going to get chopped.

Everyone should begin to focus on the wine and beer about to flow in everyone's respective countries.

**Prodigal** · 03-13-2009, 16:02

Couple of things to throw into the mix. WW1 first of all, some argue the British push was forced due to the fact someone had to distract the Germans while the French army was having a mutiny.

Burma, that was a fighting retreat, the longest in British military history, true they were hammered but after reaching India they promptly went straight out on the attack again...With it all ending at Kohima, which was where 3500 troops stopped 15000 & the Japanese were forced to retreat. So to sum up the Burma retreat saved India & ended with the defeat the Japanese army, not to shoddy

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 16:03

Originally posted by 0rly?
you were right earlier, 'tis friday!!!

Bottoms-up ladies!

**Upxl** · 03-13-2009, 16:04

I remember our peasants gave the French knights a whooping in 1302.

Those where good times

**A Very Super Market** · 03-13-2009, 16:06

The French fought competently after 1942. Juin, and Leclerc come to mind...

**Dradem** · 03-13-2009, 16:09

Originally Posted by Maleficus

I tried the google search, just to see what happened. TBH, even I expected more than this:

did you click on the link that comes up?

That said not shure why they got the name of being cowards, maybe because they didn't help the Americans much during the independence war

**Meneldil** · 03-13-2009, 16:09

I don't have wine. Living in Ontario, I have to go to state-licensed stores to buy (not that good) wine.

I guess that's a pain I must go through, since my cowardly ancestors abandonned the beautiful landscapes of Nouvelle-France to the pesky jelly-eating brits. Darn you Louis XIV

Oh well, I'll get some local beer and will start cursing in English, pretending to be a good ol' Canadian of British origins, despite my 'horrendous accent*'. Pfff, working behind the enemy's lines isn't as easy as I expected.

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 16:13

Originally posted by Meneldil
I guess that's a pain I must go through, since my cowardly ancestors abandonned the beautiful landscapes of Nouvelle-France to the pesky jelly-eating brits. Darn you Louis XIV

Dear me - distributing (some serious) historical responsibilities, are we?

**0rly?** · 03-13-2009, 16:14

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

As soon as a mod gets around to this thread it's going to get chopped.

Everyone should begin to focus on the wine and beer about to flow in everyone's respective countries.

You can't moderate this thread, there's nothing wrong with a bit of banter, if anything it perfectly illustrates the love/hate relationship we built up with the french over the centuries. We were great allies after all our wars

**Prodigal** · 03-13-2009, 16:15

Originally Posted by Meneldil

I don't have wine. Living in Ontario, I have to go to state-licensed stores to buy (not that good) wine.

I guess that's a pain I must go through, since my cowardly ancestors abandonned the beautiful landscapes of Nouvelle-France to the pesky jelly-eating brits. Darn you Louis XIV

DON'T FALL FOR IT! Wine is an Roman mind trick used to keep everyone drunk & happy.

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 16:19

Originally posted by 0rly?
You can't moderate this thread, there's nothing wrong with a bit of banter, if anything it perfectly illustrates the love/hate relationship we built up with the french over the centuries. We were great allies after all our wars

The world is full of such relationships - the French and the English, the Japanese and the Koreans, the Greeks and the Turks, the Americans and everyone else...

They turn only a bit problematic when the love bit is put aside and the hate bit becomes dominant...

There is no epic of war that can compete with the epic of peace... keep it secret - keep it safe.

**Maleficus** · 03-13-2009, 16:37

Originally Posted by AussieGiant

As soon as a mod gets around to this thread it's going to get chopped.

That'd probably be a good thing, TBH. What was a legitimate historical debate is quickly descending into a gauntlet of mildly xenophobic one-upsmanship.

I know I've participated in this farce as much as anyone, but it should probably be stopped before someone says something we all regret.

Besides which, this forum's supposed to be about Total War, not who can say 'surrender' in the most languages

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 16:44

Originally posted by Maleficus
Besides which, this forum's supposed to be about Total War, not who can say 'surrender' in the most languages

- indeed, however its about this
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/etwmp
kind of Total War.

Please come and join the fun online btw!

**Maleficus** · 03-13-2009, 16:49

Originally Posted by gollum

Please come and join the fun online btw!

I will when I can work out how.

As it stands, I can't figure out how to change my Steam name (It didn't let me choose it myself, is that normal?) and Steam also won't let me change my pic.

**gollum** · 03-13-2009, 16:53

Maleficus,
I suggest you either post a thread in the redoubt or private message (pm) Tomisama the Assistant Moderator there. He is an excellent, most agreeable and knowledgeable veteran mp fellow that will help you with that and any other querries you might have about Steam, ETW mp and TW mp in general.

**Maleficus** · 03-13-2009, 16:57

Will do.

Thanks.

**Greyblades** · 03-13-2009, 16:58

To put it bluntly: England split France down the middle in the medieval period. The French only managed to land in West Ireland during the Irish rebellion and were kicked out within a year.

**Melvish** · 03-13-2009, 16:59

I was going make a long post with historical references and link to outside website but i'm not gonna bother and just say this: what kind of history books they sell in UK?

OT : I've notice that French line infantry have high melee value(10) low defense value (13) and low moral value (9). They got good offensive value for a charge but are bit dependant on having a good general to boost their moral. Witch is kinda historical i believe.

UK line infantry (8/15/10) is more stand and fire type of infantry and less dependent on good general.

I've also noted that in melee the fight are always done 1vs1 witch is silly and explain how 9 guys could defeat 40, no bayonette in the back.

**Greyblades** · 03-13-2009, 17:02

Britain at the time was a quality over quantity nation, so those stats are kind of justified.

**dobredev** · 03-13-2009, 17:07

i think soo

**Greyblades** · 03-13-2009, 17:08

Edit: Never mind he's an advertiser.

**Melvish** · 03-13-2009, 17:10

Originally Posted by Greyblades

quality over quantity.

EUIII player hey?

Yes, i agree that the stats are justified as it reflect UK doctrine of using fire rather than charge to archive victory in battle.
And their training and drills were of superior quality.

Originally Posted by Greyblades;

Edit: Never mind he's an advertiser.

... ditto

**Greyblades** · 03-13-2009, 17:14

I havent played that game. Its just a trend that Britain has been doing for centuries; Being a Island, sucessfully fighting off Superpowers and all.

**Melvish** · 03-13-2009, 17:32

Originally Posted by Greyblades

sucessfully fighting off Superpowers and all.

Using Scottish , Irish, Canadian and Australian troops.

**Greyblades** · 03-13-2009, 17:40

...no They certainly didnt use exclusively foreign troops to fight the spanish and french.

**JeromeBaker** · 03-13-2009, 17:40

Originally Posted by dopp

Do the French get their 'cowardly' reputation from World War 2? They seem to be really good up to that point.

I tend to think they got the bad reputation from WW2. Also, De Gaul (spelling?) carried an air of arrogance with him when France was being rebuilt. Of course, I understand this arrogance becuase he was trying to make a nation feel strong and proud again. On the flip side, it annoyed a lot of people. This lead to the French are arrogant and quick to surrender story being spread. Obviously for France to be a country for as long as they have and where they are located they have a pretty good millitary tradition over the course of history.

**We shall fwee...Wodewick** · 03-13-2009, 17:55

My 2 pence(now you know which side I'm on

)

I don't care about the nationalistic crap, the French were among the strongest land force for the majority of this Millennia and Napoleon was one of the greatest commanders of all-time.

However, I fail to see how this detracts from Wellington. The Iron Duke didn't just win one battle and become a brilliant general, he did it in the peninsular wars, time after time defeating the French in Spain. In fact he never lost an engagement to the French army and in 1813-4 invaded southern France.

And then at Waterloo he still held off Napoleon and cracked the famed Imperial Guard to round up the defeat, but this was not a British victory, as many of the men were Dutch, Belgian, and German(1/3 were Germans) and only 25,000 were well trained men. To say he lacked skill was to belittle his achievements, because he was never in the position of Napoleon to march on Russia(Napoleon disobeyed the first rule of war here). In fact, the only time he was in command of the huge armies to which Napoleon fought with was Waterloo.

**We shall fwee...Wodewick** · 03-13-2009, 17:58

Originally Posted by Melvish

Using Scottish , Irish, Canadian and Australian troops.

Britain used Scottish and Irish troops and still do as they are part of the same nation! The UK, and how is using these troops different then say Roman auxiliaries or allied troops? The majority of men in Roman armies weren't Roman yet that doesn't mean their achievements are any less.

and on a lighter note, Wellington got his own piece by Beethoven!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kYHsHFRFxQ