Police bashers let free.

[Husar]

The average police officer listens into peoples conversations, breaks into their homes, and steals their stuff then punishes them for it. Im talking of course of marijuana but the other stuff (Like the thread "2 adults beat up a teenager") is just icing on the cake.

Rubbish, the cops don't make the laws, they just enforce them because it's their job.
I don't want to ask people whether they have a payback card, yet I do it because it's my job.
There are other ways to stop that then assaulting policemen, like legal ways through changing the laws.

O, and cops arent exactly pleasant people to be around.

My experience is the opposite.
And now what?

We just had a whole thread about bad cops and yes, those exist but in this example what we have are not a bunch of innocent teenage kittens getting gang-raped by police but a bunch of drunken troublemakers who started a fight with police.

On the use of the tazer and escalation, IMO they should have taken the baton and clubbed them to the point where they were unable to move, man those drunkards got off easy there.
At least then we wouldn't have any tazer discussions.
Wrestling around with a drunken guy is not the job of the police, maybe next time some guys hold hostages in a bank with knives, the police should only send in knife fighters?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

On the use of the tazer and escalation, IMO they should have taken the baton and clubbed them to the point where they were unable to move, man those drunkards got off easy there.

I think you hurt your case when you argue for more police brutality.

[Mooks]

Rubbish, the cops don't make the laws, they just enforce them because it's their job.
I don't want to ask people whether they have a payback card, yet I do it because it's my job.
There are other ways to stop that then assaulting policemen, like legal ways through changing the laws.



My experience is the opposite.
And now what?

We just had a whole thread about bad cops and yes, those exist but in this example what we have are not a bunch of innocent teenage kittens getting gang-raped by police but a bunch of drunken troublemakers who started a fight with police.

On the use of the tazer and escalation, IMO they should have taken the baton and clubbed them to the point where they were unable to move, man those drunkards got off easy there.
At least then we wouldn't have any tazer discussions.
Wrestling around with a drunken guy is not the job of the police, maybe next time some guys hold hostages in a bank with knives, the police should only send in knife fighters?

So a torturer(extreme example but a easy one) should not be responsible for what he does since its only his job? And I never advocated assaulting policemen.

My experience is the opposite.

Im sure your the minority, as most people have contact with police when they are being questioned or pulled over (Dont ask me to get a statistic for that, thats a educated guess) in their car. Most of those experiances are unpleasant, which may be one of the reasons some people have no respect for cops, something which Rhyfelwyr was shocked by.

On the use of the tazer and escalation, IMO they should have taken the baton and clubbed them to the point where they were unable to move, man those drunkards got off easy there.
At least then we wouldn't have any tazer discussions.

I dont know what was before the video. Were the cops trying to arrest them for being drunk in public or what? Some drunken people dont really appreciate trying to get put in handcuffs and turn violent. In this case the old man was just struggling, a 8th grade wrestler couldve took him down in 10 seconds; is that a good excuse to you for beating him completely senseless?

[Husar]

So a torturer(extreme example but a easy one) should not be responsible for what he does since its only his job?

No, because a torturer is very different from a policeman.
there should be no torturers in a constitutional state and torturers hit people who have been restrained already, my point about clubbing them to the ground was not very serious, I might have wanted to add a smiley.
But the problem is restraining a drunk person is not very easy as they feel less pain and cannot be reasoned with, the police should be allowed to use force to restrain them and it is not the fault of the police officers that the drunkards are drunkards who cannot behave and hurt other people. The police were called to a brawl so obviously there was already a lot of violence before the police arrived.
Tasers are pretty controversial but when restraining them by hand does seem very dangerous to the policemen then the only other options are baton or a real gun. Surely tasers shouldn't be used lightly but they are effective versus drunkards as well, unlike batons which cause mostly pain that the drunkard cannot feel so you really have to physically hurt them a lot to bring them down...

Or maybe the police should have watched and cheered for one group of drunkards until the brawl was over.

Im sure your the minority, as most people have contact with police when they are being questioned or pulled over (Dont ask me to get a statistic for that, thats a educated guess) in their car. Most of those experiances are unpleasant, which may be one of the reasons some people have no respect for cops, something which Rhyfelwyr was shocked by.

Ah, yes, being pulled over for driving to fast, poor people who endanger themselves and others, I really can understand why they hate police. Well, i can tell you the difference, I live in Germany, here police don't put a gun in your face, tell you to get out and then strip-search you just because you were 1km/h too fast. i know that police in the US can be really bad but that doesn't make me spout blanket statements on the net or look down at police here as well.
And being pulled over in cars is easily avoided by using trains, which I advocated here before.

I dont know what was before the video. Were the cops trying to arrest them for being drunk in public or what? Some drunken people dont really appreciate trying to get put in handcuffs and turn violent. In this case the old man was just struggling, a 8th grade wrestler couldve took him down in 10 seconds; is that a good excuse to you for beating him completely senseless?

It says they were called to a brawl, so it's not like they showed up to spoil the fun but were called by a concerned person to end the drunkard on drunkard violence. You know, I've never been involved in that, maybe because I stay away from violent drunkards and don't start hurting people when I'm drunk myself, helps a lot when it comes to not being beaten by policemen.
the old man wasn't beaten senseless, like I said that was a bit of half-humour(he still deserves a spanking ) I inserted without an appropriate smiley, just to be mean myself once in a lifetime.

[Crazed Rabbit]

The father was pulling his son away from the police officer.

The officer pulled out a semi-lethal weapon and shot the father with it. There was no cause for that, and it almost killed the man.

The other son tackles the cop. He did not mean to paralyze him.

So, I'm not feeling that this verdict is that terrible. The cop used to much force, deadly force, and was tackled from behind. It's refreshing to see the police don't have the protection of the law when they overstep it.

As for cops being bastions of justice, who want to protect people from criminals...
Maybe you people can tell, me of all the crimes reported in this thread, why not a single one was reported by the police? Why all the information had to be dragged from their files?

As a side note, I hate tazers too. They've become a tool of torture to force compliance. We detest torture in other places, why do we allow people to be tazered if they are nonviolently resisting? How is causing pain to force the citizen to act as you wish any different from torture? They have some small use in confronting a person with a knife, but they've become widely abused as well.

The cops have started to use them whenever people don't listen. I've read multiple cases of cops tazering people passed out from diabetes or the like.

CR

[Husar]

So if the cops are that bad what cruel sadist called them in the first place?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

K, this incident occured about a 2 minute drive from where I live. So I can tell you that the pub in question is actually 20m away from the largest police station in the northern suburbs. Starting a fight with some coppers outside the Old Bailey is beyond stupid.

The article as published above is very sensationalistic. Personally I find most Perth-based journalists to be so. Yes it is disgusting that a young police officer is now visually impaired and was severely injured. However the old man had a heart attack which was induced by tasering. The participants were found not guilty as it was self-defence, this I would argue with, but you cannot say that the sons actions were not provoked. (This doesn't mean I agree with them.)

For the record, one of friends works for the Joondalup police force. He is as far as I know a good police officer, and good fun. However he is far from morally pure, as many of my friends have recently commented. My point is that the police are not infallible, and can make the wrong desicion.

Finally I believe it is important to note that a jury, who has been given all the facts and evidence has acquitted the defendent. This isn't an arbitrary desicion made by one person, nor is it a row over sentencing. 12 ordinary people have decided that the man is not guilty, as he was acting in 'self-defence'. This, to my mind indicates that there must be more to the story than what has been reported by sensationalist media networks.

I'll conclude with a statement that me and my friends regularly go to another Joondalup pub, all of 100m away, and we don't see any trouble. Certainly we don't feel unsafe. Either because of this incident or the subsequent acquittal of the perpetrator (or because of the incidents that occurred at Mullaloo last Australia Day, but thats beside the point...).

[Vuk]

Ah, yes, being pulled over for driving to fast, poor people who endanger themselves and others, I really can understand why they hate police. Well, i can tell you the difference, I live in Germany, here police don't put a gun in your face, tell you to get out and then strip-search you just because you were 1km/h too fast. i know that police in the US can be really bad but that doesn't make me spout blanket statements on the net or look down at police here as well.And being pulled over in cars is easily avoided by using trains, which I advocated here before.

lol, no offense, but that is a very ill-informed statement. I am afraid that you watch too much TV. :P In the US they only pull you over for going 8+ MPH over the speed limit (in most States), and the do not draw a weapon on you because you speed. :P They approach your car, tell you that you were speeding, ask you why, ask for your drivers liscense, go to their car to check your record and issue your fine/warning, then return it to you, explain it, and drive away.
I will not blame you for you misconception, as the media loves to promote such ideas. On the topic of the article though, the policeman was seperating the fat old drunken **** from the others, and he attacked the policeman. The policeman was defending himself and had NO reason to believe that a taser could be fatal to him. After all, if his heart was in that bad of condition, why was he getting drunk and brawling? An innocent young man's life is ruined now, and the guilty party has gotten away scotfree.

[Husar]

lol, no offense, but that is a very ill-informed statement. I am afraid that you watch too much TV. :P In the US they only pull you over for going 8+ MPH over the speed limit (in most States), and the do not draw a weapon on you because you speed. :P They approach your car, tell you that you were speeding, ask you why, ask for your drivers liscense, go to their car to check your record and issue your fine/warning, then return it to you, explain it, and drive away.

I wasn't 100% serious, I just tried to catch the sprit of many posters here and what they say about the police.
You also raise a good point about having a weak heart, then getting drunk, starting a brawl and then hitting a policeman, that's pretty rich for a weak old fart.

[Vuk]

I wasn't 100% serious, I just tried to catch the sprit of many posters here and what they say about the police.
You also raise a good point about having a weak heart, then getting drunk, starting a brawl and then hitting a policeman, that's pretty rich for a weak old fart.

lol, sorry that I misunderstood you then. It is just very frustrating for me over here in Europe for the first time, to hear what people think of America (I think rather as it would be for a Frenchman coming to America). People have actually asked me if I have ever been in a gun fight! Why? Because I am American and they think that America is a mix between some John Wayne cowboy movie and Gangs of New York City. :P Some of the awefull things people think about America and Americans is not just so wrong, it is very offending. :P The media here in Hungary for instance says some of the most wild and inaccurate things. And the media in Germany! lol, please don't hold it against me when I get defensive, because the entire world has such a warped and inaccurate image of America that it is some times hard not to. :P

Anyway, about the weak heart, my dad died of a heart attack, because he had heart condition for several years. He used to drive 4 screwdrivers a day, smoke, and live a less than healthy lifestyle (visiting the bar a lot). When he learned he had a heart condition, he stopped eating salty food, stopped drinking completely, stopped smoking completely, stopped going to bar rooms, and lived a very cautious and much slower life. He was on the way to recovery when an unfortunate event worsened conditions and resulted in a heart attack that killed him. Point is though, if you have heart problems, you do not go drinking like a fish and getting in brawls. Who would think that a drunk brawler like him would have heart conditions? It makes no sense.

[LittleGrizzly]

I can see the logic behind the criticisms of the older guy... he probably shouldn't be drinking and fighting in his health state....

That being said someone should be free to carry on drinking regardless of thier health... the fact is he went out with his sons and trouble started... from the sounds of it he wasn't really the troublemaker and was trying to defend his children, which is admirable regardless of who is attacking them and why...

The police officer couldn't have known of his condition.... well i think that should be at the front of the police's minds every time they decide to use devices such as tasers and the like. With a result like the one from this case im sure it will help police think twice before they act excessively...

[Meneldil]

lol, sorry that I misunderstood you then. It is just very frustrating for me over here in Europe for the first time, to hear what people think of America (I think rather as it would be for a Frenchman coming to America).

You don't have to go to Europe to hear that. Just visit Canada. Most people here think that Americans are uneducated barbarians. I think they pretty much hate the US more than any European does.
And going to the US as a French is fine, as long as you stay in civilized places ;)

As for the topic, well, I don't have any experience with policemen outside of my country, and I have to say that I have mixed feelings about them. Sometimes they're quite nice, sometimes they're freaking horrible and arrogants.
I think that in any case, nobody deserves to be as badly injured as that guy is. If I were a friend of him, I would be pretty much pissed off, even though the conditions in which it happened are less than clearcut.