The Curia

[Iskander 3.1]

I second Edict 6.8 on the condition that it is a simple majority sentate vote, not a 3/4 vote.

[Mooks]

Deciumus Cornelius Scipio enters the room. Having been busy talking too his old clientele, and setting up the first house, he has been out for a while. He sets a fast pace and pretends hes reading something so he doesnt have to talk to anyone, and secretly hopes noone even noticed him gone or coming in. After a while of being informed what has happened by his designated note taker, he rises to speak.

Ave noble senators! For too long I have been silent and now is the time to get what I have to say out there.

First, Its a travesty the House Licentia Proeliator has been temporary shutdown. I propose edict 6.9; that the house can be made official without the support of a Praetor, and merely a Questor. In this case Longos (potocello). I would also take this time to ask everyone to read the House Charter, simply to see what we are all about and maybe consider joining.

I agree on points 6.1-6.3 and will vote in support of them. Blasio, if you have need of my Overseer, then please take him along. He is more usefull with farms, ports and the like. With all my income vested into the Licentia house I have no need of him anymore. Consider it a gift, if you refuse it I will understand.

Legio V should be formed. Its commander should be selected by a vote. I personally want to see myself or Aemilus selected, if Aemilus voices that he wants control of the legion, I shall throw my support behind him.

Now on to the subject of Cotta. You must be feeling very special right now. I consider 6.5 too harsh, you has done nothing to deserve a humiliation like that. I do however, like 6.8. The very lands you conquered will be under your governance. Though that also seems like a humiliation instead of a simple change in position. Perhaps the issue of being granted a triumph is in order? I would second it and vote in support of it, but it seems like the other senators arent too fond of you.

Sicily, the land of greeks and poeni along with all sorts of pirates and wines. Legio III is in perfect position to spearhead the assault, and I think it should. A lightning attack should take place, with Legio IV in support. This should take place as soon as possible.

Deciumus sits down. Aware that his oratory method is more a series of bullets then the eloquent speeches of the other senators. While not fancy or necessarily convincing he hopes the other senators will appreciate the straightforward information.

[SwissBarbar]

.... He beckoned his assistant Quintus Sertorius over. For a fleeting second, Quintus thought he noticed a slight moistness in his liege's eyes, but as soon as Appius turned to him fully it was gone....

....I would like to denounce Caius Aurelius' supporters as being mere yes-men at best, and part of a conspiracy at worst....

Avlvs laughed loud out. "Didn't I warn you, dear fathers of the republic? Before this Senatorial Session took place, I predicted that certain senatores would denounce their political enemies, if they ran out of better arguments. And there you see it! I was right. I should really make an application as an Augur instead of fighting Rome's enemies."

Many senators laughed, Avlvs sat down and shook his head, still laughing. "My god, what a born fool", he thought.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

I am willing to change my edict if anyone finds it to Harsh/leniant. however I think it should keep the 3/4 majority vote, as if it is not we could simply vote him out because we hate him, with a 3/4 than it means that he actually had to do something wrong.

[SwissBarbar]

"It's not yours, but HIS edict, that is way too harsh" Avlvs said, pointing at Appius Claudius

[Iskander 3.1]

I prefer a simple majority. I do not believe that enough people here flat out hate him to vote him out without any wrongdoing. Also remember that it would be a majority of weighted votes.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

you could be right, so how about this

Edict 6.8: after the Taking of Ambrakia, Caivs Aurelius Cotta will relinquish control of legio II, Avlvs Aemilivs Mamercvs will take over command. Caivs will be given Provincial governence of Ambrakia and Illyria Hellenike to compensate. However Caivs will be restricted to the city of Ambrakia for half a year, and at any time if it comes to light he is misusing his power he can be expulsed by a simple majority senate vote. any attempt to replicate his "patrols" will be met with the loss of his Governance and his house arrest in rome for 1 year.

[Iskander 3.1]

I agree and second Edict 6.8 as it is now written.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

thank you friend. Sextus smiles at his friend from Legio I, a fake smile which didnt reach to his eyes.

[Iskander 3.1]

(OOC: We're from Legio I, Drizzt!)

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

(whhops, sorry trying to do math homework and eat, AND this, all at the same time. got mixed up hehh.... fixed, again sorry....)

[Mooks]

Avlvs laughed loud out. "Didn't I warn you, dear fathers of the republic? Before this Senatorial Session took place, I predicted that certain senatores would denounce their political enemies, if they ran out of better arguments. And there you see it! I was right. I should really make an application as an Augur instead of fighting Rome's enemies."

Many senators laughed, Avlvs sat down and shook his head, still laughing. "My god, what a born fool", he thought.

Or perhaps all the arguments have been said, and need not repeated? You mistake no arguements for already spoken ones. I for one dont like to hear the same thing over and over again, do you?

[SwissBarbar]

"No, that's not a possibility. Because if all arguments would have been said and didn't need to be repeated, why should he make up new nonsense-arguments like he did? He'd better say nothing, instead of using stupid arguments! But well.. he did, using these allegations to underline his opinion.

To answer your question: I also don't like to hear the same thing about "he's your friend, so you support him, though you should know better" - excretions again and again.

Therefore, thank you for trying to be involved in this .... 'conversation' .... and be aware of my respect for having tried to think before speaking."

[navarro951]

Following proposals are from gamemaster, and created by player mini. They will not require seconds, and when voted on, weighted votes will not be used. All influence will be 1. All other in-game edicts and charter rules remain the same however. All reforms which pass will be enacted as of the NEXT congressional council.

First of all, a few new concepts you will need to grasp before reading the reforms entirely:

Concepts:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

1. Office Terms
Every elected rank is valid for 12 turns. After each 12 turns there will be a congressional session and new elections for offices.
Only exception is the tribunus Plebis, who will be active for 24 turns.

2. Character Points

To get to the next rank (Rule 2.4) every player must get a certain amount of 'CP's'.
Character points are gained from participating in IC events and having your character do something in-game

Battle
"Crushing Defeat" -3 points
"Clear Defeat" -2 point
"Average Defeat" -1 point
"Close Defeat" -1/2 point
"Close Victory" 1 point
"Average Victory" 2 point
"Clear Victory" 3 points
"Heroic Victory" 4 points

Governing
1CP per 2 turns for villages, towns, large towns
2CP per 2 turns for Cities, Large Cities
3CP per 2 turns for Huge Cities

A character which is NOT the main commander of the legion, but does participate in the battle will receive the following points:
1/2 of the normal points if this character is a Legatus. (rounded up)
1/3 if he is a quaestor (rounded down)

To the GM: please note that points will be rounded to 0.25
example:
a quaestor who participated in a close victory: 1 * 1/3 =0.33 (rounds down) == 0.25 CP's
a legatus who participated in the same battle: 1 * 1/2 = 0.50CP

Note: I, as GM, will do a complete review of game history before the next CC and will transfer the new CP points into our current BP points.

3. Pomerium

This included all cities of italy below the padus river.
(Ingame this means: Arretium/ariminum are the northern border of the pomerium. Then it goes al lthe way south to taras/Rhegion.)

This will be the area regarded as homeland. Keep it in mind for it will be mentioned @ ranks.

4.Provinces

A province will be an area in-game, determined by a Charter Amendement, that will or may included several cities in a region and will be governed by a PG (provincial governor)
As the Empire grows bigger, provinces may change in shape/size. ALL NON-POMERIUM CITIES WILL HAVE TO HAVE TYPEII.
Client-ruled cities do not count as a province.

For example: Sicily is a province. It will have 1 governor who will chose his 'capital'. This chosen capital will nto be able to be governed by a quaestor during the term of the governor.
Publius cornelius is now an ex-consul, and chooses as his province Sicily. He then declares Lilybaem his capital, so from there he governs.
His nephew is new in the senate, and Publius Cornelius asks the CoF if his nephew can serve him as a quaestor.
Publius Cornelius can now ask his nephew to govern either one of sicily's other cities.

5. Theatre of War
A theatre of war is a province which is adjacent to a nation of which we are at war with.
For instance: Illyria when we are at war with epeirus.
When a CoL is elected, he may declare his Theatre of War, providing the neighbouring faction is at war with us.
This allows the consul to take control of the province and wager war on the neighbouring faction.
The CoL is the ONLY person who may ventured into enemy territory without approval of the senate. (as longs as the enemy is in a state of war)

6. CASUS BELLI
This concept means the Republic only goes to war with a VALID REASON.
We only attack when we are attacked, or our allies have been attacked, or a nations threatens the status quot in our region.
Provincial Governors are therefore not allowed to take their legion into foreign territory.
Unless the foreigners have intruded our land or attacked us.

This also means that as long as a faction does not attack us/allies placed close to us, governors cannot conquer any new cities.
Only the CoL can venture out to gain new cities.

In case we are attacked, a provincial governor may send word to the senate, who may vote an edict for revenge.

7. Voting system
The congressional system as it is remains, with a few additions:

The Tribunus Plebeis may enfore 2 edicts per term without vote.

A provincial Governor may call of Vote on War: this means that a PG may request the senate to allow him to conquer a foreign settlement of a faction currently not at war with the SPQR.
This includes rebel cities. This may happen when the foreign faction has had troops on our territory or the faction is showing 'bad intentions' to us or our allies.
The governor must provide evidence for a casus belli, after which he may create a poll. No seconding required.

IC voting: several small IC-related things may also require a voting outside the session. This will regard things that do not affect in-game issues (for example giving bean a triumph)
IC voting can be started by anyone. It requires 3 'secondings' after which a voting poll will be isued.


Voting for any of the above will last for 24hrs after creation of the poll. No turn may be ended during this period.

8. Law system

Whenever an edicts contradicts a rule, the edicts will have to be judged by the current elected praetor.
He will have final word on the validness of the edict.

Of course, this means that praetors should take their responsability as not letting things get out of hand against the spirit of the game.

Some issues and changes will need to be taken directly to the GM.

This is to represent the fickleness of ancient roman law.
THIS RULE IS DEBATABLE/OPTIONAL

Cursus Honorum Romanum (carreer for a roman senator)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Privatus (starting rank)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

A privatus is a young man, just finishing his education in Rome and ready for the first step of the Cursus Honorum
Requirements: None (Training Stage 1)
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
Penalties:
(1) May not lead any troops nor propose laws.
(2) Cannot Run for Consul
(3) Skulks in Rome to gain ancilliaries until he gets elected as Tribunus Plebis OR appointed Quaestor by a CoF.

Tribunus Militum

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: None (Training Stage 2)
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
1) May send a request to the CoL to join a legion.
Penalties:
(1) A young man, preferring the education an army can give him above one found in the forum romanum.
(2) May not lead any troops nor propose laws.
(3) Cannot Run for Consul
(4) may not govern a city

Quaestor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: Must have been appointed by the consul of Finance (or by request of a provincial governor to the CoF).
Vote weight: 1
Powers:
(1) Can propose one Edict/Charter Amendment per 'Congressional' Session.
(2) Can govern one city (except province capitals)
(3) Must be appointed by Consul of Finance (for a pomerium city) OR requested by a provincial governor (for a provincial city). If requested by a PG, the CoF will still have to approve the assignment.
(4) Can act as second in command to a Legate/Dux/Consul
(5) Can also govern a provincial city in the province of a governor.
Penalties
(1) Cannot command a FULL Legion. (In times of need, they ARE allowed to command the Alae.)

Tribune of the Plebs

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Speaks for the Plebs in the Comita.
Requirements: Must be elected to position.
Vote weight: 2
Powers:
(1) Can propose one edict/charter amendment per congressional council;
(2) Can veto 2 edicts per term
(3)The Tribune of the Plebs term is two Consul Terms long. (24 turns)
(4) Can issue 2 edicts during his term which become valid from point of announcement until next session.
(5) receives 18 CP's after term is completed as this is the first electable office and regarded as the first step of the cursus honorum.
Penalties:
(1) May not lead any troops
(2) Cannot Run for Consul
(3) Cannot govern a city

Praetor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements:
Must have been Quaestor OR Tribunus plebis. Must have 25 'CP's'. Must be elected.
Vote weight: 4
Powers:
(1) Can lead 1 legion
(2) Can propose 3 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.
(3) Will get to choose province to govern when term as praetor is over, after both consuls have chosen theirs.
(4) Can act as judge in IC disputes
(5) May sponser the formation of Houses/Families

Consul of Finance

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Only Consul of Finance will end the “turn”.
Requirements: Must have been elected to this office. Must have been Praetor OR have 40 CP’s.
Vote weight: 5
Powers:
(1) Can build any building in any settlements he wishes and set the tax rate in any settlement unless they are part of a Provincial Governorship. Cannot recruit military units.
(2) Gains automatically control of the Consular Legio II. This legion will be stationed in a fort outside Capua. It may never enter Latium unless passing through or if there is an enemy near Rome. Legion will be used only to clean up rebels inside the pomerium ONLY.
(3) MUST BE STATIONED IN ROME! The finance consul must always be in Rome to govern. Unless fighting off rebels.
(4) All diplomats (not spies or assassins) are under the command of the Consul of Finance. He can move them and use them as he sees fit.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Senator.
(6) Can call Emergency Congressional Session.
(7) Will get first pick of his province to govern after term is complete.
(8) Can propose 5 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.
(9) Can exclude 1 avatar from participating in the congress. the so called: "lictors, remove this man" move Basically only to be used when people are truely annoying in the Curia, or rebellious.

Consul of the Legion’s

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: Must have been elected to this office. Must have been Praetor OR have 40 CP’s
Vote weight: 5
Powers:
(1) Can build any military unit in any settlements he wishes unless they are part of a Provincial Governorship. Cannot construct buildings.
(2) Assumes control of the Legio I .
(3) May choose his theater of war. If no theatre of war is active, must remain in Rome.
(4) All Assassins/Spy are under command of the Consul of the Legion’s. He can move them and use them in any way he wishes.
(5) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can force a transfer of one retinue member/item from any Player to themselves or any other Senator.
(6) Can call Emergency Congressional Session.
(7) Will get second pick of his province to govern after completion of term.
(8) Can propose 5 Edicts/Charter Amendments per 'Council' Session.

Provincial Governor

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: Must be an outgoing Consul/Praetor OR Must be appointed to this rank through the Senate by an edict.
Vote weight: 3
Powers:
(1) Can govern the Province they have been given. This means: Set the tax level, ask unit recruitment/building construction (Should be mentioned in the SOT).
(2) Can propose 2 Edicts or Amendments per 'Congressional' Session.
(3) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can Prioritize one building in any build queue in any settlement in his Province(s).
(4) Once per full 12 turn Consul Term, can destroy one building in any settlement. Buildings in the barracks lines cannot be destroyed with this power.
(5) Commands 1 provincial legion.
(6) Can appoint a Quaestor to govern any city he choses in his province.

Legatus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Requirements: Must have 15 CP's. Must be appointed by Senate/provincial governor.
Influence: 1
Powers:
(1) Can command 1 legion OR 1 provincial legion.

Dicator
Must be elected by a ¾ majority in the senate OR legion commanders.
Powers
(1)Assumes total control of all supporting legions
(2)Can establish edicts as he sees fit
(3)Can establish charter amendements in negotation with the GM

All avatars/ legions which do not support the dicator will be declared rebels until the dictatorship is over.
All ‘rebels’ will lose their ability to recruit.
The loyalists however, will also not be able to recruit in provinces which are governed by a ‘rebel’

More details on this can be furnished on request 

The point of these reforms is:
1)Until you reach praetor, you’re basically a junior senator
2)Once you pass praetor, you get acces to the cool offices.
3)If you manage to get yourself elected, you got much power during your term
4)If your term is over, you get to choose your playground
5)There has to be atleast 1 term between your next election (Term A, you’re consul; Term B; you’re a governor; Turn C; you can get elected again.
6)During your time as a non-elected senator, you’re between the junior senators and the elected senators concerning power.
7)Once everyone gets a high rank, game will evolve around factions as the people who can get their members elected wield more power than those who don’t. This establishes a whole end-game which the current ranks do not have.

Legion Reforms

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

8. Legions
All Legions are BOUND to their area. Legions will be composed of 1 roman half, one allied half (Alae)
The allied half will be unit types that are recrutable in the area the Legion is bound to.

Compostion of Standard Legions

Camillan era
1 General
1 Leves or Accensi
1 Hastati
1 principes
1 triari
Alae
1 skirmisher type
2 units of allied infantry (two different pairs of Samnite, Lucanian, Bruttium, Ligurian or Gallic infantry or just any local stuff if the real distant cities)
1 unit of pedites extraordinarii
1 unit local cavalry

Polybian Era
1 General
1 unit of Velites/Accensi
1 unit of Hastati
1 unit of Principes
1 unit of Triarii
Alae
The two socii alae are composed as follows:
1 unit of allied skirmishers (any mix of javelineers, archers and slingers)
2 units of allied infantry (two different pairs of Samnite, Lucanian, Bruttium, Ligurian, Gallic, or Iberian infantry)
1 unit of pedites extraordinarii
1 unit of allied cavalry (Campanian, Greek, Gallic, Ligurian or anything else available, or possibly equites extraordinarii)

Marian
1 General
1 unit of First Cohort
2 unit of cohors reformata
2 unit of antesignani/evocata
Support
1 unit of Scorpions/arrow throwers
Alae
1 unit of allied javelin-men
1 unit of allied slingers or archers
1 unit of allied cavalry

SPECIAL LEGIONS
Consular Legion I for the CoL:
A normal legion

Consular Legion II for the CoF:
A normal legion MINUS the Alae

Provincial Legion
Normal Legion minus the Alae

[navarro951]

Extending council 24 more hours to discuss reforms. (Wednesday, the 18th at 1600 Pacific!)

[navarro951]

OOC: So you know all, the rank of Dux and Aedile will not be taken out it will be somewhat changed as to how you acquire the rank but it will remain the same; just about legatus.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

"Gentlemen, with such sweeping changes being proposed to our way of governance, I propose Edict 6.9: That the new legal reforms of the Res Publica bear the name of their creator, Qvintvs Aemilivs Regillvs, and henceforth be known as the 'Aemilian Reforms'."

[SwissBarbar]

I second edict 6.9. , Avlvs said.

[Iskander 3.1]

I second Edict 6.9

[navarro951]

Time for legislation proposal has now ended. Voting will begin shortly in which there will be 48 hours time allotted to vote.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Tiberius Claudius Marcellus stands and coughs, garnering the attention of his fellow senatores

"Fellow senators, honored men and sons of Roma, I must voice that the ballot used for this series of elections and legislation proposals is most inaccurate, and is therefore ashambles. To use it would make a mockery of the democratic system and would cause too much confusion amongst eligible voters, thus leading to disenfranchisement. I therefore move that we halt all voting immediately, rendering any cast null and void, and convene an emergency session of the Senate, to draft a more perfect ballot. Once said ballot is re-written, all eligible parties shall be allowed to cast their votes anew to be tallied for counting.

"Should our noble body not deem it fit to make its processes and procedures worthy of the Res Publica, then I shall abstain on voting this session in protest of the lack of attention to detail and laziness on the part of those senatores whose responsibility it was to create our ballots."

[desert]

Hey, that's true!

I've been disenfranchised!

[SwissBarbar]

"The points we can vote upon indeed are not complete." (BTW: we don't vote by ballots, we raise hands). "Let's vote on the other Edicts, as we did for Edict 6.4."

"Though I completely agree with senator Tiberivs Clavdivs, I have to say to you, Appivs Clavdivs, to better shut your mouth concerning disenfranchisement, for your unworthy edict 6.5. is exactly about to do that to Caivs Avrelivs."

[mini]

A message from Qvintvs Aemilivs Regillvus

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

To the Conscript fathers of the S.P.Q.R.

I wish to express my thanks upon the honour bestowed upon my person by Tiberivs Claudivs Marcellvs.
To have a law named after oneself, is a guarantee a man will shine through the ages.

I also wish to inform the Senate that Legio II is eager to decise this war against the Epeiros. I suggest we either take Ambrakia soon, or else consider negotiation of peace.
In my more humble opinion, we should force them to become a protectorate.


I wish to conclude this letter with the news that I shall return to the Senate as soon as I'm allowed by my father, Caivs Avrelivs Cotta.

[SwissBarbar]

"If my edict passes, Legio II will smash their city to the ground." Avlvs said. "After having done that, I have nothing against forcing Epeiros to become a protectorate."

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

"Aulus Aemilius, for us to be able to vote on other edicts with a simple 'yay' or 'nay' would require a formal announcement by those senators responsible for compiling the edicts and ammendments to re-introduce those that were excluded. Otherwise, the process will be as unordered as a gaggle of geese honking and posturing as they attempt to eat stale bread from a child's hand at a pond. I must re-affirm my belief that the voting must be done anew, lest we fail at our most basic of responsibilities - to vote on laws and represent the citizens of the Res Publica.

"I would also stress that you show respect to Senator Appius Claudius Nero, as his Edict has received the required number of seconds and has yet to be deemed 'unworthy', as it has not been voted upon. The edict also seeks not to disenfranchise Caius Aurelius, since the meaning of the word means to refuse or withold representation or a voice from one who is deserving. As evidenced by his own behaviors and actions, it is clear to myself and others that the 'Praetor' is obviously un-deserving, hence the need for such legislation to forcibly remove him from power."

[SwissBarbar]

"Since we don't agree with each other, it would be senseless to debate further, honourable Tiberivs Clavdivs. As long as it's not proven otherwise, the edict remains 'unworthy' to me and 'convenient" to you. Let's see the result of the vote, which shall be respected and inviolable for everyone. At the end everyone has to bow to the will of the senate."

[desert]

OOC: Eh, sorry. That post up there was OOC. I'd meant to put it in the Poll thread.

[Tiberius Claudius Marcellus]

Having returned to the Curia after the mid-day meal, Tiberius Claudius took a moment to address his fellow legislators.

"Honored men of Roma, please accept my heartfelt thanks that justice has been served this day. By re-voting on these issues we have fufilled our most basic of responsibilities and allowed all proper legislation to see the light of day. Know that no matter the outcome of the votes, the traditions and legal authority of the Senate and the Res Publica have been maintained inviolate. Hold your heads high with honor, noble Romans."

[SwissBarbar]

Lvcvllvs and Avlvs held their heads high and enjoyed the fresh air up there