OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[mini]

The french would be nice aswel, all those barons :)


Or like 3 small PBMS covered by one big?

I don't know if that's possible?
Few players play like LOTR with england
few with france
few with germany

All with the same save game? If that's possible...

Or just one big PBM with a more western faction :)

[Ibn-Khaldun]

How many turns? (shows how much I play M2TW )

I think 15-20 turns from now. That's 22-30 years in game.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

The french would be nice aswel, all those barons :)


Or like 3 small PBMS covered by one big?

I don't know if that's possible?
Few players play like LOTR with england
few with france
few with germany

All with the same save game? If that's possible...

Or just one big PBM with a more western faction :)

It's like 'Kingmaker'. A game I tried to create in totalwarcenter.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=942

Also, Ignoramus tried to do something like that in here too.

[mini]

Oh it's not my idea, I'm glad to admit!!!

I just spit ideas, in the hope ppl jump on them who have a little more time to be a decent GM :)

[ULC]

Aww...I JUST GOT INTO THE FAMILY TREE GUYS! *pouts* I was so hoping for fights over my duaghters, and to see where Ammonathas would go, and to see the bloodbath required by Kouinos to get to the throne.

In all honesty, I too have grown a bit bored, but I seem to more easily adapt to situations then everyone else, for instance I was going to drum up support from the Western half of the Asteri and unaligned to rebel against the Basilues myself, since it was kinda lame of my brother-in-law to go and sign a peace treaty with a rebel

I think one of the main issues is the "Reward/Risk" factor related to civil ar and pushing for certian things IC. Whether we realize it or not, our OOC feeling do influence our IC actions, and have some power of character and inplay development. There was much to risk, and sometiumes little gained, for many actions. We needed, IMHO, to reward players from the start for going off on their own and pushing limits IC - the event surrounding my character for instance is an excellent example. It's possible rebellions, all of them, should be done as events, with their own rule set depending on the circumstances. For instance, in our very first Civil War, one could say that either side could gain ships free of charge for their armies (due to patriotic support), and move double twice each turn so long as it is to a "civil war target". Also, concrete benefits outside of the Megas would have been helpful, since an enemy Megas makes for a difficult time, and a constantly changing political landscape can make it hard to actually get the energy to rebel in the first place.

I would be willing to GM a game myself, but would like further help with the rules (and will want your awesome event powers TC ) before beginning, and to find at least 20 people willing to play, and someone who can mod effectively for anything that needs to be corrected ingame.

[mini]

I'm 1/20 active players unless you pick a muslim faction! :p

Nothing to do with racism, i just dont like playing in the sand ;p

[Zim]

I'd been hoping that the Civil War would jump start the game a bit like the cataclysm did for KotR (of course, even then the game only had a few months left in it...). At least we're doing badly enough that the Mongols or an event could actually hurt us.

Slow movement rates and lots of space and mountains between territories made it very hard to go through with Civil Wars. I had to rest Arintheos in a settlement just to get rid of that horrid supply trait and now have no hope of catching anyone (not that I had any hope before, being more than a turn behind. ). Figures first time I get a decent army since Andreas in KotR and I won't get to use it.

Giant battle or event works for me. Perhaps the big battle then an event writeup on what the survivors have to face next...

[TinCow]

Slow movement rates and lots of space and mountains between territories made it very hard to go through with Civil Wars. I had to rest Arintheos in a settlement just to get rid of that horrid supply trait and now have no hope of catching anyone (not that I had any hope before, being more than a turn behind. ).

I think in future games (at least in the RTW/M2TW engine) a major revision of PvP rules is necessary for this reason. We managed to get the extremely complex Private Army system fixed, but what you say right here hits the nail on the head about the current PvP system. It's simply too hard to fight each other. In future games, I think a better system would be simply that when a PvP war is declared, each side is given 1 turn to get their allies organized, and then a battle automatically occurs with all people on both sides showing up with whatever forces they have available.

[Zim]

That would definitely make the position of Megas more sought after. Pop out as many troops for one side as possible, declare war, and watch the other side scramble.

Of course, if enough people disliked it they could join on the defender's side...

[Northnovas]

I've tried to get my head back into the game, but I just don't have the will to make things happen. LotR was fun at first, but it all kind of fizzled out and despite stirring up a fair amount of conflict I don't get the feeling we have much left to play out.

I was looking forward to the arrival of the Mongols too. It'd be nice to see us get our rears handed to us.

You know at the pace of the game I forgot about the Mongols coming!

Though I would have to agree with what has been said. I have been around seriously lurking between LotR and E:TW. The former to see if anything was going to happen but there has not been something to really get into the last while and the latter my game has not arrived and debating a serious cpu upgrade.

The 4 way split threw me off and could not really rally around a side and with the pace I lost the whose who; the greek names were always confusing me; I do prefer a Western Faction for simplicity. We seemed to be defeating ourselves with the financial situation and logistics. Even with the AI issues there really wasn't enough battles to say we were kicking the butt of the AI and need to slow things down or create an event. Like I said I forgot about the Mongols and that would have been a challenge taking on that assault but we didn't even get to that time frame. We stalled ourselves with the logistics of the Byzantine Empire.

I am sure there is a lot of playability of MTW2 to some but it is getting tired to me. I really do like what I see with E:TW even with it's current release issues. I would like to see playing a PBEM in that era eventually.

However, I do like to finish what I have started and would agree to an ending that would be fitting for this game in consensus with what would be the proper format to do so.

[Zim]

I apologize for my part in the Empire's faltering economy. I really never imagined the Civil Wars would last so long and figured a little debt would make things more interesting. In the past game it took the Cataclysm for the AI to make any progress. In this game I thought not being able to recruit troops, while most of our generals were off fighting each other, would add the same urgency.

Then most of those generals did not fight each other (partly because most couldn't reach each other) and the AI really hasn't pressed it's advantages at all. One big backfire.

I remember a few people mentioning western factions being more familiar and wanting to play them for that reason back when LotR was being designed. Does it really make that much of a difference? A medieval Greek culture doesn't seem all that foreign to me compared to, say, medieval German, and seems much more familiar than an ancient Roman culture, like the game before it. I'm not trying to be critical, that just always confused me.

[mini]

Well ,let's say that the english/french court is a lot closer to more ppl do to their reflection in various movies and western romantic stories (going from Arthur to Ivanhoe etc) :)

[Ituralde]

Yeah well we can't deny that it has been going downhill recently. Too bad it happens now where we have finally reached a situation where internal strife is much more important than external strife. It does show the flaw of the Civil War systems quite nicely though. It just takes too long to walk to your enemy. While I would find it bad if all maneuvering would cease to exist, the way it is now really takes the wind out of most sails. While it would be sad to end it now I can't get myself motivated enough to plead for the game to continue.

[mini]

then i shall pray that someone find the time to GM a new one ;P

[Zim]

I'd love for the game to continue but at the moment it does seem as if it's just limping along.

Activity can be self supporting to a large extent as long as there's a decent sized core of players that keep things going in between visits by the ones that drop in a little less frequently. The reverse side of that is things get really slow if those players lose heart or move on to different things, and have trouble picking up again.

The release of ETW has probably also had an effect...

Cecil is setting something up. The rules are quite different from LotR and I probably won't be joining, but it looks quite interesting.

then i shall pray that someone find the time to GM a new one ;P

[mini]

i'm not into secession games, so i'll stick to the other pbms

[Zim]

Cecil's game is a little more like LotR, except every player has complete control of their settlements and armies, but must pay for the latter solely with settlement income (or borrow/gain money using other methods).

i'm not into secession games, so i'll stick to the other pbms

[mini]

oh yeah, V&V i see..

I think i'd give it a go if it goes live. Seems like a new concept, might be exciting.

[KnightnDay]

I think it would certainly make sense for these PvP battles to take place without much time elapsing. The game engine just doesn't allow for large and costly armies to sit idle for extended periods of time without creating economic difficulties. That combined with these tax rate rules sending cities into rebellion (Thessalonike to be among them) has given us a lot to handle. Actually the cash deficit would not be there if the navy was scuttled and the foreign mercs disbanded.

Bring on the Mongols!

[flyd]

I don't know if I'd declare the game over, but I think this civil war needs to be resolved. It's still interesting to find who will come out in the succession dispute. The main problem has been that the sides have been unbalanced and mostly avoiding each other. I think TC should contrive it so that we have a series of (roughly) fair battles. I don't think we should have one big battle, with the current strategic situation abandoned entirely, since we've spent so much time marching around trying to establish it.

The way I'd like to see this that we pick a first round of reasonable matchups, say Erotikas-Sophianos vs. Voutomitis-Isaakios in the west and Andronikos-Tagaris along with their allies in the east. Various Events could be made to contive it IC (e.g. Erotikas-Sophianos' troops will mutiny because they were promised Cosntantinople, so they must turned around). Players could be given double movement points while they close in, although I'd still allow some player-controlled strategic maneuvering once they close in, although if the sides are balanced, I'm sure they'll go at each other. Also, the supply system traits should be ignored in balancing PvP battles. The players should be given final say, as in: "Yes, I would not run away from this battle IC." If they don't, a more balanced battle would need to be set up.

Once the initial round of battles are over, we'll see who'll want to go after whom, and we could give extra movement points to achieve it quickly. The Event would be over once all the players recognize one claimant to the throne.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Surely your system is not influenced at all by the fact that March Madness is approaching.

[Zim]

I'd be up for it. I'd even go for something more like the Battle of Trent where the armies for the battles were selected by the gm. It might provide incentive for the sides with the smaller forces to get into the battles.

If I had it to do over again I wouldn't have hired nearly so many troops to defend Constantinople, knowing it would divert the confrontation there.

[flyd]

Surely your system is not influenced at all by the fact that March Madness is approaching.

Yes and no. I was never really into it because I went to a football school. But we are, oddly enough, in the tournament this year, so I might have to catch a few of the games.

[Northnovas]

I think some battle to resolve the Civil War would be a good plan. Then if players want to continue they have the option. I think we are at a stalemate politically and should put the game mechanics aside to resolve the political issue and have our one ruler whomever that may be....

Then bring on the Mongols!

[TinCow]

If there is desire to continue the game after a major Civil War ending battle, that is fine. However, someone will have to volunteer to take over as GM. I really am burned out on this game, and I need a break.

[woad&fangs]

I'm fine with skipping all the marching around and going straight to the battles.

[Cecil XIX]

Darn it all, I was really looking forward to us splintering into three different factions like the Diadochi. Even asked Degeurra to make me a coat of arms inspired by the Seleucid emblem in EB. Ah well.

I think the question of whether or not to end LotR is best decided by majority vote. I'd like to see at least some of this Civil War resolved without events, right now Andronikos's revolt is the only PVP conlfict that's resulted in a PVP battle without being caused by an event.

[Ignoramus]

I think the major problem has been the size of the map. In KotR, all settlements were quite close to each other, and so when the cataclysm happened, it was game on. In LotR, it takes forever to march anywhere with infantry, so the only sensible option for a rebel is to sit pretty.

I'd love the game to continue, but I acknowledge that the game has really petered out. If there's to be a battle or event, Ioannis III definitely wants to be there.

[Rowan]

Darn it all, I was really looking forward to us splintering into three different factions like the Diadochi. Even asked Degeurra to make me a coat of arms inspired by the Seleucid emblem in EB. Ah well.

I think the question of whether or not to end LotR is best decided by majority vote. I'd like to see at least some of this Civil War resolved without events, right now Andronikos's revolt is the only PVP conlfict that's resulted in a PVP battle without being caused by an event.

Well if certain someones hadn't stolen two full armies and marched them around for the past 20 years we'd be ready to have a nice big Kill Andronikos festival by the banks of Orontes.

[AussieGiant]

I'm still a little fixated on how the previous game managed to generate more conflict and interaction that this one has, especially when there was more freedom in this game to do just that.

Having stood back and seen the history of both editions, there was a lot more politics and activity in the German version.